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Air cooled reflector testing with Digital footcandle meter

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RomulusUSA

Member
Iffy - just from looking at that drawing, I'm sure you'll find much better results with the revised grid. Or an extra hood, for sure, but I feel you re heat issues. I'm hunting for an ac ATM, summer is around the corner and I bet 3500w gives me some hassles. 1500w did last summer, with the tiny AC I was running.

I wish someone had magnum xxl vs blockbuster testing. I'm about to purchase and am hoping blockbusters are the answer to my hood query!
 
M

MsMileHigh

Member
RomulusUSA said:
Iffy - just from looking at that drawing, I'm sure you'll find much better results with the revised grid. Or an extra hood, for sure, but I feel you re heat issues. I'm hunting for an ac ATM, summer is around the corner and I bet 3500w gives me some hassles. 1500w did last summer, with the tiny AC I was running.

I wish someone had magnum xxl vs blockbuster testing. I'm about to purchase and am hoping blockbusters are the answer to my hood query!
Click to expand...
I wish someone had magnum xxl vs raptor esting.Im trying to decide between the 2.I want to know which spread the light better.I might try and do 5x5/1k.Hope that wont be stretching the 1k too much.Does anyone have any ideas???:dancer:
 
A

ak-51

Is there any information on PAR loss through glass? Such as a PAR meter testing the same reflector and bulb with and without glass on it?
 
pHive.8

pHive.8

Vendor
We've been using glass covers on the HPI-T lamps in the past and they take about 10% of the light away.
 
habeeb

habeeb

follow your heart
ICMag Donor
Veteran
pico said:
I agree with this completely, I stopped aircooling years ago for the same reasons.
Click to expand...

I wonder though.. since it's a 2.4 % loss, meaning a lot closer to the plants ( more light ) , I wonder what the loss with the dirty glass is? I more wonder what the loss is.. not saying it's better, I just wonder

If anyone hates cleaning, it's easy as putting the duct over the hood, and leaving off a band / tape / clamp.. I have yet to see, as I have some setups in my house ( living room ) that air gets through. been on trips and have come back to no smell so I know it's not a sensitivity issue.

also have thought of just pulling the glass off, and keeping the vent hooked up, to pull out heat from the bulb in a less efficient way ( this only works if the carbon is at the end of the chain of exhausting.. AKA pushing, not sucking though )

I've also wondered if dust particles or whatnot, get "fused" to the glass lowering output over time, I mean the bulbs are so hot you would think dust would get stuck to it, "burn" and get stuck on the glass, and not be able to even be wiped off ???


PICO, awesome work man... wonder sometime if you would be interested, as I hear reflectors degrade over time, so wonder what the readings of a new reflector vs. a used 1-2 year old reflector would give... believe gavita has talked about this, but some real world info would be nice sometime.
 
habeeb

habeeb

follow your heart
ICMag Donor
Veteran
so some update info , another test for people..

I checked with my PAR meter, glass and no glass.

this was just one measurement, as I thought moving them around would give less an answer..

in the middle, meter never moved, only pulled the glass off, which was suctioned on by the inline..kept my legs in he same position as I know it reflects light..

with glass: 335.6
without glass: 340.1


honestly, I'm not sure where these people are coming up with 10% loss or more..... also this was a dirty piece of glass, not like extremely dirty, but dirty. was going to take a pic but was too lazy


can someone calculate my percentage loss? it should be under 2% I believe? also this is a standard tempered glass for a bell lighting hood




if this is true, with pico's info.. I'm not sure what's not to like about vented hoods, only that there a pain in the ass to clean.. but being as you can get the plant closer, I say it's a definite win.. not sure why PICO is using no glass now, but I'll read more
 
P

pico

Active member
Veteran
I didn't stop using glass because of potential lumen loss with glass installed. I stopped because it was a pain in the ass to deal with venting. Ducting up a big room full of hoods sucks. Changing a bulb takes more time. Cleaning glass takes time.... I would rather just have a big AC unit cooling down the room and no vented hoods. For a small room with a few lights, I would probably have vented hoods.

Also, you lose light in the big holes used for venting, so that is something to think about.
 
G

gus738

Member
long time no talk pico . i still have magnum xxl 6 and love it but i got to add ; how do you like vertical ? no hood just bare bulb?
 
P

pico

Active member
Veteran
Don't have a ton of experience with vertical. The concept makes plenty of sense to me, I just didn't particularly want to deal with that style of room layout. I did have a couple omega gardens a long time ago, but they had plenty of their own issues that ultimately made me get rid of them.
 
SMOKE-ONE

SMOKE-ONE

Member
pico said:
I didn't stop using glass because of potential lumen loss with glass installed. I stopped because it was a pain in the ass to deal with venting. Ducting up a big room full of hoods sucks. Changing a bulb takes more time. Cleaning glass takes time.... I would rather just have a big AC unit cooling down the room and no vented hoods. For a small room with a few lights, I would probably have vented hoods.

Also, you lose light in the big holes used for venting, so that is something to think about.
Click to expand...
I'm running air cooled hoods now, but I'm thing about switching to non cooled w/ big a/c, for the same reasons
Which non air cooled hood do you think performs the best?
 
C

cheifnugget

Member
I'm done with dirty glass and pain in the butt bulb changes but I'm also wondering what's best for non cooled options?? as all my hoods have the huge acres holes
 
O

One2Lurk

Member
Pico my friend, awesome thread. Interesting read, thanks for all the shared info and work that entailed. That said, in the name of all things holy, someone (Pico, mods et el.) please clean this train wreck up;-) there is a bunch of good stuff here, but the whole thing is littered with every teenage pothead begging for help with their lighting, ventilation and general grow question. Start your own dang thread, or at least post your question somewhere relevant. I just spent (as have so many others before me) a better part of a day rtft to rather anticlimactically learn that the best air cooled hood is better off not air cooled. Well I'll be dipped in shit.

Seriously, thanks to all who participated in both taking measurements, graphing, and even those who intelligently followed along and helped extrapolate the info. Both thought provoking and entertaining. I especially enjoyed how the grid positions eventually integrated into the care of the garden and possibly moving specifically the hot and cold spots at some point. While I've tried a consistant "rotation" of the whole table, or area, simply paring that down would possibly yield decent results from far less shuffling, especially with a hood that exhibits decent spread characteristics.

All this data leads me to wonder if the manufacturers have "gone down the rabbit hole" of giant 6-8" vented reflectors at the expense of losing reflected area to greater cooling capacity. Given that I've seen a 1000w hid, or two 600w hps cooled with a 4" squirrel cage. It's clear to me that most growers under 1300 watts of lighting don't need 6" or 8" ducting, and often the space suffers for it, robbing even more of the light they're trying to maximize.

I miss the days when I kept my garden. Until I can again, I'm living vicariously through you guys. Keep up the good work!
 
P

pico

Active member
Veteran
One2Lurk- Yes, a cleaned up thread would be nice, maybe that will happen at some point, but it has been a long time and I am on to other projects. This information is still relevant and making it easier to access would be nice. As far as non air cooled being better than air cooled...all things being equal, not having a big hole in the side of the reflector will produce better results. No surprise there. Sometimes you need air cooled reflectors and this test was initially designed to find the best design of the bunch. After years of use I decided to go another direction and stop air cooling and use a big AC unit in my room. Different situations require different equipment I suppose.

I tend to agree that manufacturers putting out 8" reflectors is a bit overkill, but then they are just selling what people are buying. If one company puts out a 4", and then someone else puts out a 6" and people start buying that...then the next logical step for marketing is to put out an 8". We as consumers need to be better informed and buy what works best, not what seems like it is better because it is "bigger". Then again, the manufacturer could do better to inform the consumer....


xpapousek- That reflector would be hard to compare against the rest of the reflectors in this thread because the light is not constant on any given point. You would need to take an average amount of light over a given period, I am not prepared to do that. The concept of moving the reflector, or moving the plants under the reflector is sound in that the light will be spread out a little bit better. Won't help the hot spot in the middle, but the rest of the area will have a pretty even light spread. I tend to stay away from complicated moving reflector systems as I don't like adding too much complication in the mix. If you were going to go that route, I would imagine a sun mover or a light mover would produce a better light spread.
 
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