Air cooled reflector testing with Digital footcandle meter

[Hackk]

nexgen digital ballasts if that matters. I just called around, and finally found a shop that has the SS2 and the radiant8 on display, so Ill be heading there in a few hours. I know its not the radiant6, but I've practically memorized the difference between the 6 and 8, so that should make it easier.

Ill post up my opinion and visual review once I get home

 

[Hackk]

This is why Im stumped, the reflector designs are completely different, along with material. Im sure we can agree the quality of both are equal, but the footprint is where I am more concerned.
Super Sun 2

Radiant 6

 

[pico]

That isn't a super sun 2, that isn't even a sun systems reflector.

 

[pico]

here is the super sun 2

 

[pico]

I purchased a Sun Systems XXXL reflector today. Expect test results soon.

This thing is massive, not sure if that is a good thing or not for light spread. Looks well built, but unfortunately the glass does not drop down with a hinge like the ss2, it slides out. Probably a bit too much glass for a hinge design. The XXXL is about 50% more than the SS2, and it will be harder to move from location to location because of the size.

I will try to test the diffuser too while I am at it.

 

[grapeman]

Magnum xxxl test

Magnum xxxl test

TY Pico. I am using six 6" magnum xxxl hoods (3 hoods each over a 8' x 4' platform for overkill light distribution) that I settled on a few months back but without your scientific data, I cannot know for sure if these hoods are worth the money. I do know that they run cool as hell , allowing extreme closeness to the plants. I am interested in knowing your results.

 

[pico]

uh oh, looks like Super Sun 2 just got taken out by the giant Magnum XXXL

I spent more time on these tests so we can chart the numbers and get a more accurate graph. I did a 5x5 area for the test @ 24" height, and did readings every 6". That is 121 readings per reflector!! Same basic test procedure as was done a couple years ago, so you can go read the first couple pages if you missed that.

NOTE: In my previous tests, I multiplied the number off my meter by 100, in these tests I forgot to do that. Makes no difference, but I am sure someone would ask why the numbers are so low.

XXXL Average 21.94
SS2 Average 21.06

Not a huge difference in averages, but about 4% more light coming from the XXXL.

Here are some charts, fairly similar, but see how the SS2 has a hotter hot spot in the middle.

Now let's look at some raw data

Looks like the XXXL has a more even spread of light across the area. The hot spots are not as bright, and the low spots are not as low. I still think the SS2 will be better for smaller areas with 600w lights, but I might just have to test that out now.

The XXXL is a very nice reflector that is sorta like a giant version of the SS2. It has spectral aluminum inserts on all inner surfaces, and a slim socket that does not obstruct air flow. The only problem I see with this reflector is that it is so big, it makes things hard to move around if you have a bunch of these. These are as big as 3 SS2 reflectors. They also cost about 50% more than the SS2.

All in all, I am impressed. Expect to see some pictures sometime soon with a bunch of these setup.



NOTE: THESE NUMBERS CAN NOT BE COMPARED TO ANY OTHER NUMBERS FROM ANY OTHER TESTS. DIFFERENT BULBS, BALLASTS, AND LOCATIONS HAVE BEEN USED.

 

[Eminem]

I was just jumping between the idea of the XXXL myself vs. the SS2. I asked a redundant question that had been asked numerous times before, I just missed it throughout the many pages. But I simply came to the conclusion that the XXXL is extreme overkill for anything "non commercial". It is built well, and looks massive. But the lumen spread will be too great, and the sheer mass of the hood would make it a pain to deal with.

But Pico, Im gonna ask another one of those annoying questions... and I was set on the SS2, and until recently was gonna run all 4 of my 1000's with um. But now Im stumped... You did the testing with 600's correct? do you think the results will vary much with 1000's (position of bulb etc)?

The reason I ask this, my hydroshop guys are REALLY pushing for me to run the radiant6 or 8 (I would run 6" for improved light vs cooling). I can get the radiant for cheaper, which isnt that big of a deal to me, but the construction is what Im more concerned with. The Radiant6 looks really really good. Sealed and powdercoated, the glass uses a hinged and very well sealed gasket, and the reflector looks very well designed (could use a weld or two to seal some seams in the reflective material, but over all good). A major difference however is the use of a flat reflective aluminum vs the traditional stamped "bumpy" aluminum, which is a slightly duller gloss which I assume is to prevent hotspots.

So after reading your great review on the SS2, Im on the fence. ALL the hydroshops in my area either carry JUST the radiant or the SS, not both, so I cant run a side by side comparison in design and construction.

Is there anybody out there with a bit of experience with these two hoods? Ill be making my purchase within the next few days, so any advice is priceless.

Thanks

I tested the Radiant 6 and SS2. The radiant 6 had better #'s all the way around

 

[darookie2000]

uh oh, looks like Super Sun 2 just got taken out by the giant Magnum XXXL

I spent more time on these tests so we can chart the numbers and get a more accurate graph. I did a 5x5 area for the test @ 24" height, and did readings every 6". That is 121 readings per reflector!! Same basic test procedure as was done a couple years ago, so you can go read the first couple pages if you missed that.

NOTE: In my previous tests, I multiplied the number off my meter by 100, in these tests I forgot to do that. Makes no difference, but I am sure someone would ask why the numbers are so low.

XXXL Average 21.94
SS2 Average 21.06

Not a huge difference in averages, but about 4% more light coming from the XXXL.

Here are some charts, fairly similar, but see how the SS2 has a hotter hot spot in the middle.

Now let's look at some raw data

Looks like the XXXL has a more even spread of light across the area. The hot spots are not as bright, and the low spots are not as low. I still think the SS2 will be better for smaller areas with 600w lights, but I might just have to test that out now.

The XXXL is a very nice reflector that is sorta like a giant version of the SS2. It has spectral aluminum inserts on all inner surfaces, and a slim socket that does not obstruct air flow. The only problem I see with this reflector is that it is so big, it makes things hard to move around if you have a bunch of these. These are as big as 3 SS2 reflectors. They also cost about 50% more than the SS2.

All in all, I am impressed. Expect to see some pictures sometime soon with a bunch of these setup.



NOTE: THESE NUMBERS CAN NOT BE COMPARED TO ANY OTHER NUMBERS FROM ANY OTHER TESTS. DIFFERENT BULBS, BALLASTS, AND LOCATIONS HAVE BEEN USED.

Thanks for confirming what I already suspected. One important note is that the magnum also appears to throw off a lot less heat than the SS2. Like I said in another thread, I have both, and I like them both, but for different applications. I overvegged some plants and by the time they got in the flower tent they were already about 3 feet tall, so I bought a magnum, since I didn't really have any other options. Now I'm running the light a few inches from the canopy with minimal stress to the plants (I've got a 6" active air inline with a phresh filter pushing air through the hood to cool it).

One important note for those who decide to go grab a magnum is that you can't really use light yo-yos with it, it's too damn heavy. I got it working for a while, but you can tell that it's just a little too heavy for the yo-yos. I bought a ratcheting system that is basically a pulley with a ratcheting lock and it works much better. It's about the same price, or a little cheaper than the yo-yos.

 

[darookie2000]

This is why Im stumped, the reflector designs are completely different, along with material. Im sure we can agree the quality of both are equal, but the footprint is where I am more concerned.
Super Sun 2

Radiant 6

I compared these side by side in the hydro shop before deciding on the SS2 (this was before I saw this thread, lol, just based on eyeballing the different reflectors). Look at the lower left corner of the hydrofarm reflector. Do you see the gap in the metal? The quality is not as good. Dimpled reflectors spread the light more evenly and prevent hot spots more effectively, so the smooth (chinese-made) aluminum on the bottom reflector just does not work as well as the etched reflector at the top. I think the reflector part is made in germany - doesn't make much of a difference to me where it's made, honestly, just that there was a perceptible difference in the quality of the workmanship to me. The SS2 is sealed better, so doesn't put off as much heat. The gaps in the reflector mean that the heat is not conducted away as effectively which causes problems.

 

[mikeross]

wow thanks for the comparison with the xxxl. I was going back and forth between and magnum and the ss2. I am still not sold on the magnum though because of its size but like the fact that is has a better light spreed and smaller heat spot. Still not sure what direction I want to go.

I assume your running 1000watt bulbs in these hood while doing the comparison? I assume the results should be similar if testing with a 600watt in each reflector? I ask because I am planning to run 4 600w setups.

I would love your opinion on this matter. I am running a aero/nft setup using a fence post design. I am looking for the most light spread but am stuck with using only 600. My flowering canopy will be 8x8... If cost was not an issue would you go with the magnum xxxl? Also on a side not what type of 600watt ballast and bulb configuration do you suggest.

Again thanks so much for the time and knowledge you put forth in this thread... Much appreciated

 

[pico]

I still think the SS2 is a fantastic reflector, and if I was going a 600w grow, I would use that over the magnum, no question. The Magnum is huge, and it kind of a pain in the ass in a lot of ways.

I don't think anyone should be selling their SS2s and upgrading to XXXL unless they are doing a big area and need the light spread and want to spend money for minimal gains. You are not going to switch to a magnum and get a big yield increase or anything.

I have been making the switch to Lumatek Ballasts. Been running a bunch of their 240v 1000w units and they work well. I just bought a bunch of the new 750w ballasts and they are pretty cool too. You can run 750w, 600w, or 400w with the same ballast. The new 1000w units will run 1000w, 750w, or 600w bulbs. So for flexibility they are a nice unit. You can run 600w today, and then use the same ballast to run 750 or 1000w when you get a larger space. I like the Hortilux bulb.

You can get some good deals on magnetic ballasts these days. Used stuff from people upgrading is cheap. I have 20 or so that I would practically give away. used reflectors can also be found. Depending on where you live you could outfit a grow for cheap. Just make sure to buy a new bulb, don't want an old bulb.

 

[Mr. Bongjangles]

Awesome pico, thanks for your continued work on this subject.

Our community is much greater for your contributions!

 

[grapeman]

TY Pico - I was happy with my magnum xxxl hoods before and I am even happier now that I see the evenness of light distribution. You are right about the weight. They are heavy. I have 3 on one heavy aluminum rod over each of my 4' x 8' platforms and I had to use a home made heavy duty pulley system from the hardware store for light lifting over each platform. Once the pulley system was build though, all was forgiven. Although I cannot test this, I do believe that this hood is not only cooler for the plants directly under the hoods, allowing the hoods to be within inches of the plants, but it is also cooler to the touch, allowing me to move less air through them for cooling purposes. The room stays cooler as a result, which is important to me in the desert southwest (lower a/c bills). I use 600w in these hood which probably allows me to lower these hoods even closer to the plants. I've used light diffusers in the past and did not like them either any better the the hot spots I had without them. I can say that the grows under these hoods are very even and your numbers bare this out. Thanks for all your work.

 

[fish83]

wow..i just spent hours reading this whole thread!

wow..i just spent hours reading this whole thread!

this is an awesome, helpful thread...thanks pico and darth, and every one else who contributed...Pico...I agree with you on the choice of the SS2's over The magnum xxxl's, especially with the 600 watt setup. For a minimal chance of more, it isnt nearly worth it, due to the problems this reflector seemd to cause...anyway...thank you all again...the ss2's are pretty much ideal for the 600's, especially in a 3x3 grow space, with the Lumatek digi's. Grow on people....and congrats and thanks to pico!

 

[darookie2000]

this is an awesome, helpful thread...thanks pico and darth, and every one else who contributed...Pico...I agree with you on the choice of the SS2's over The magnum xxxl's, especially with the 600 watt setup. For a minimal chance of more, it isnt nearly worth it, due to the problems this reflector seemd to cause...anyway...thank you all again...the ss2's are pretty much ideal for the 600's, especially in a 3x3 grow space, with the Lumatek digi's. Grow on people....and congrats and thanks to pico!

I'm not sure it's as minimal as you think. I can keep the magnum a couple inches off the canopy, and the SS2 has to be a bit further away (my magnum has a 600 and the ss2 has a 400W CMH). I don't know, I like them both still.

 

[mikeross]

I know it would be a total waste to sell your ss2 to buy the new magnums but what if your shopping for new reflectors for a completely new grow setup. Is it worth it to spend a couple more bucks on the magnums? I think over time the small extra expense is worth? Especially if your only able to run a 600watt bulb in say a 4x4 area?

You opinions pico to me are very much valued... tell me what you think?

I am running a 2400watt, 4x600w aero/nft setup, and each one of my flowering units(4total) take up a space of 4x4. Is it worth it to spend the extra bucks for the 6" magnums.

thanks bud

 

[orpanic]

Pico, what bulb and ballast did you use for the XXXL test? same as the SS 2?
Thanks for the hard work...."if you don't, who else will?"

 

[mikecar312]

I have been making the switch to Lumatek Ballasts. Been running a bunch of their 240v 1000w units and they work well. I just bought a bunch of the new 750w ballasts and they are pretty cool too. You can run 750w, 600w, or 400w with the same ballast. The new 1000w units will run 1000w, 750w, or 600w bulbs. So for flexibility they are a nice unit. You can run 600w today, and then use the same ballast to run 750 or 1000w when you get a larger space. I like the Hortilux bulb.

i read in lumatek's ad that dimming the ballast to 50% or 75% will not reduce electric use. i like the dimmable feature for early plant growth but i don't know if i can deal with a 1000w electric bill with a 50% light output which is why i haven't upgraded to the dimmable ballasts. i also read of sun pulse's website that they recommend their bulbs to be ran for 15mins at 100% before dimming. have you been running the hortilux's with the ballast dimmed?

 

[darookie2000]

i read in lumatek's ad that dimming the ballast to 50% or 75% will not reduce electric use. i like the dimmable feature for early plant growth but i don't know if i can deal with a 1000w electric bill with a 50% light output which is why i haven't upgraded to the dimmable ballasts. i also read of sun pulse's website that they recommend their bulbs to be ran for 15mins at 100% before dimming. have you been running the hortilux's with the ballast dimmed?

If you don't run it full strength before dimming, you can blow the bulb. I was talking to the guys at the hydro store who said they didn't notice that little tidbit when they were testing the dimmable ballast (they were not a big fan, btw) and the bulb made a pop and it was no more. They are not worth it, IMO.