Air cooled reflector testing with Digital footcandle meter

[Dr Watt]

pico, thanks for your efforts. I found the result that glass takes out only 2-3% useful in decision to use or not.

A reflector's performance seems to benefit alot from NO CORNERS (ie sunsystem 2 looks like it has patched over corners behind globe with extra reflective metal).

No corners also applies to the Grow Room - you can Milar the room with round corners which increases light also

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

That would be a digital Foot Candle meter. If you are going to attempt to run tests you will need to determine exactly how PICO did them and do the same using the SAME equipment, ballast, bulb, model of Digital FC meter, bulb and ballast warm up times, cool down times, distance from lamp to meter, a uniform grid with fixed test points and so on. Otherwise your effort will not provide usable figures due to variation in the testing procedure. While equipment of the same manufacture might vary in performance right off the shelf the variance would be uniform for the device being used and would give a comparative.

i was thinking that the spread is what we were intrested in. i was fascinated to find that the light 'hit' better at 21 inches rather then 18, was more uniform and proper.
my daystar a/c's are very narow and have been wondering about there spread in comparison to a silverstar or other hood, i hate the cooltubes there not so great. IMO but id test one.

i was just hoping to fill in some of the gaps, maybe have hps/mh tests diffuser, non,600' and 1k's

 

[eLiguL]

Due to the difference in output between ballasts/bulbs even from the same manufacturer it is not possible to do the same test and compare to my numbers. Not even I can compare to my numbers anymore since I have since thrown the test bulb away.

I still plan on doing testing with 1000w lights at some point so there is a small chance I might be able to test out some of these other reflectors mentioned. I don't really have any plans go buy a bunch more reflectors, but hopefully I will be able to borrow them for testing purposes.

Someone could do a test similar to mine with say the Bell reflector and the Super Sun 2 reflector. Then you could see if the bell was better or worse than the super sun 2. But you can't just test the bell and compare your numbers to my numbers.

Would it be possible to convert your numbers into ratios and use the ratios to compare hoods?? At the very least it would be a guideline instead of the absolute gospel truth.

 

[pico]

I think you would still need to test one of the hoods I tested and compare it with similar methods to another hood you want to test. Then you could say hood x is 10% better than hood y and compare that to my data.

for instance if you tested a coolsun XL and a silverstar and figured out the silverstar tested 10% better than the coolsun xl then you could take my numbers and see that the super sun 2 produces 22% more light than the coolsun xl in my tests. You could safely say that the super sun 2 is better than the silverstar.


I have a Bell aircooled reflector on its way for testing. I am paying out of my own pocket for these tests so I hope you all like it. We are moving on to testing 1000w lights. Like I said I can't do any new testing with the 600w lights as i tossed out the bulb. I would like to say I will have numbers up in a week, but it is hard to say. I have a pretty busy schedule right now. Keep hounding me. Don't let me forget about the light diffuser, now that I am on to 1000w testing I can slide that in there.

 

[Guest]

eligul----LOL "instead of the absolute gospel truth". What in the hell do we need facts and absolute numbers for anyway!!!!!!!!!!! Haven't you noticed that is the way some insist on doing things (considering the problems they always seem to have).

I like numbers, numbers are my friend, they never lie to me, 2+2=4 every time.

Ty-Stik

 

[Guest]

PICO, thank you for taking the time and expense to conduct these tests. I hope the readers realize the value of numbers/light distribution. There are so many "opinions" offered that have little to do with fact which leads to the perpetuation of myths and the false.

Perhaps in the near future horticultural equipment manufacturers will use identical testing standards in a manner consistent with growing Herb, for instance 36 inches from the bulb, not 3 meters as in the Bell tests.

Respectfully,
Ty-Stik

PS: Beautiful Beer Cans !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[me545]

I wanna see how cool tubes compare to all of these reflectors. Great job so far pico!!

 

[green_thumb]

light intensity with stacked vertical bulbs

light intensity with stacked vertical bulbs

THANKS Pico for a ton of work, also knna for putting it in perspective.

I would observe that uniformity is my goal, to me the 24" data is smoother.

this is a post from the 420 Vertical forum:
After reading an authorative source stating that the actual light intensity with adjacient bulbs was too difficult to calculate, I followed his advice and directly measured the output of 4 600W HPS bulbs and 2 HPS + 2 MH conversion bulbs. Measurements were taken with an Extech LT300 light meter and corrected by the % difference between a new bulb's stated output and the meter reading (field calibration per the above author, citation lost). Note the meter reads between 500 and 630 nm so relative strength only is what is being measured and compared.

The v-scrog screen is 18" from the bulbs' CL, so that is the distance at which I measured the light intensity. The 4 bulbs are hung vertically to make up a 52" string, ~1" between the tip of one bulb and the next socket below it. The initial measurement 18" distant from the middle of the uppermost socket, and proceeded downards by the distance indicated.

distance .... 4 HPS .... 2 HPS + 2 MH
down, in. ... K Lux ..... K Lux
0 .............. 39 ......... 31 . . this is the midpoint of the top socket (4" from the ceiling)
6 .............. 60 ......... 52 . . the bulb midpoint
10 ............. 65 ......... 55 . . the bulb tip
14 ............. 75 ......... 59
20 ............. 88 ......... 66
24 ............. 86 ......... 63
28 ............. 76 ......... 62
35 ............. 77 ......... 60
39 ............. 70 ......... 53
42 ............. 64 ......... 53
48 ............. 53 ......... 51
52 ............. 43 ......... 41 . . tip of bottom bulb

I had originally intended to use 4 HPS bulbs, but it is clear I have more uniform lighting with the pairs of HPS and MH bulbs. It is also much more light than I had anticipated, probably 4 400W bulbs would be a better match for a 76" OD octagon; time will tell.

I would recommend using a light meter with stacked bulbs, doing so saved me a pile of grief.

Hortilux Super HPS LU600S - 88,000 lumens
Sunmaster Cool Delux conversion bulb LM.600W.U25.CDX - 50,000 lumens

Addendum: The bulbs had only 2 hours of run-in, not the 100 hr norm.
The chains in the photos has been replaced with 0.013" ss wire for reduced shading.

 

[eLiguL]

eligul----LOL "instead of the absolute gospel truth". What in the hell do we need facts and absolute numbers for anyway!!!!!!!!!!! Haven't you noticed that is the way some insist on doing things (considering the problems they always seem to have).

I like numbers, numbers are my friend, they never lie to me, 2+2=4 every time.

Ty-Stik

Numbers do lie if you know how to contort them. Half of all marriages end in divorce in America, what they dont tell you is its one person who has divorced 10 times.

My reasoning of using ratios instead of actual numbers is IF the manufacturer of these hoods created a uniform product then the reflective properties will remain the same regardless of the bulbs. So in theory, the ratios will stay the same (or at least very close) for a reflector regardless of the bulb that was used in the test.

My suggestion was to add to this thread and maybe create a venue so Pico's test can have many contributors instead of putting the entire burden(cost, time, etc) on his shoulders.

A standard of this could be what Pico suggested and that is to do a test on a reflector with a different bulb that he has already tested and compare the numbers using ratios to ensure uniformity.

Again, this is only my theory.

 

[researchOnly]

I have a Bell aircooled reflector on its way for testing. I am paying out of my own pocket for these tests so I hope you all like it. We are moving on to testing 1000w lights. Like I said I can't do any new testing with the 600w lights as i tossed out the bulb. I would like to say I will have numbers up in a week, but it is hard to say. I have a pretty busy schedule right now. Keep hounding me. Don't let me forget about the light diffuser, now that I am on to 1000w testing I can slide that in there.

i own a bell lighting hood, run under a 600. great reflection only problem is it is only 4" ducts. im gonna have to find a way to cut em to 6"?

 

[Guest]

Numbers don't lie, dishonest people that misuse them do, OR we ourselves just make a mistake in the math, other than that 2 + 2 still equals 4.

Even if every manufacturer used the same ballast, bulb and reflective material the results will still vary due to the hood designs themselves.

Maybe we the growers should form a group, a club or organization and fund own testing facility because there sure as hell is way too much BS in the industry and incorrect or inapplicable performance stats. whether it be ferts, additives, bulbs, ballasts and the like. Some of those folks make more claims than a Snake Oil Salesman. It would be highly likely that if the testing were uniform, accurate and impartial manufacturers might well submit products for testing free of charge.

 

[eLiguL]

Even if every manufacturer used the same ballast, bulb and reflective material the results will still vary due to the hood designs themselves.

I dont quite get what you are trying to get across here. Isnt the purpose of this thread to measure the difference of the reflective properties in hood designs??

My suggestion was to add to this thread and ive detailed as much as I could about my theory/thought process. The reflective properties shouldnt change (or at least stay close enough) regardless of the bulb. With these ratio's we can compare different hoods on a some what factual basis.

It would be nice to have laboratory data from a controlled environment but you know as well as I do that its not gonna happen unless someone shells out some serious coin for the cause.

Again this is only my theory and has yet to be proven.

 

[P-NUT]

what about hydrofarm radiant? I gotta couple from 03 or 04 that got 4in vent holes but the reflectors dont have holes theyre aluminum inserts. they run super cool though

 

[darthvapor]

bell lighting wants you to use a plenum so each light gets its on intake and exhause and its made from aluminum that dissipates heat faster. If you use them inline they will not work as efficiently because each light will transfer heat to the next. by having a smaller 4 vent more light gets reflected from the hood.

 

[Brain]

I'm lookng forward to that diffuser test, Pico. Those hot spots on 1k's bug me.

 

[mikecar312]

i'm not sure if this was stated already. i have two versions of the hood too, both have dimples in the reflector. sun system II just redesigned their hoods again with a hinge glass that drops down for cleaning and replacing the bulb, instead of the glass being able to slide out like the older ones. the seal is much better on the new ones too.

 

[MostHigh]

I like what was done up in this thread...
http://www.gardenscure.com/420/1050632-post1.html

 

[pineappaloupe]

what i took from this thread was how evenly a hood spread out the light and the shape of a foot print. its all about angles and such, not really bulbs or reflectivity of the materials.

I dont quite get what you are trying to get across here. Isnt the purpose of this thread to measure the difference of the reflective properties in hood designs??

My suggestion was to add to this thread and ive detailed as much as I could about my theory/thought process. The reflective properties shouldnt change (or at least stay close enough) regardless of the bulb. With these ratio's we can compare different hoods on a some what factual basis.

It would be nice to have laboratory data from a controlled environment but you know as well as I do that its not gonna happen unless someone shells out some serious coin for the cause.

Again this is only my theory and has yet to be proven.

hey pico, or anyone else: have you heard about people relocating the position of the bulb in the supersun2's? i might have seen a thread where someone used a spacer on the socket to move a 600W bulb to a more central location. i wonder if this influences the foot print positively, or if the hood was designed for this bulb position.

peace

 

[eLiguL]

what i took from this thread was how evenly a hood spread out the light and the shape of a foot print. its all about angles and such, not really bulbs or reflectivity of the materials.

Thats a valid point.

On another note, im curious to see how the Silverstar hoods stack up against the current competition.

 

[pico]

who is the distributer for the silverstar units? I can contact them and try to get a sample sent over for testing. I have other distributors doing the same.

pineappaloupe- I would like to have more test points this time so that we can get a better graph that shows how even the reflector is. I was thinking instead of doing a point every 1 foot, to do a point every 6 inches. I also want to make it a bigger area. So instead of just doing a 4x4 area for the 1000w hoods I want to do a 5x5 area. Problem is that instead of 16 points like the last test, I would be doing 121 points. Then if I tested at different heights like last time that would bring me to 363 points per hood. Yowzers!