AGAIN!!! 40-40breaker poping at less then 30 amps!

[DIGITALHIPPY]

ARGH!!!!...
popin again...
way less amps then it should be.

im only running 5600W.
ok so..last night i changed out a 600hps to a 1k hps
so it was 4x1k and 2x600W
now with 5 1K and 1 600w the breaker is poping.

the controller is rated for 8K so i dont get whats up.
...
lighting controller/setup.


breaker fine.


20 min later...

 

[Bumble Buddy]

Popin is in ur grow, flippin ur breakerz

Maybe burn some effigies and a little black magick?

 

[cocktail frank]

tried to tell you b4 your shits all fucked up.
you got 40a total feeding that whole panel.
plus your trying to draw all available juice just in lights.
plus you have an a/c and other shit running too.
my money says that when the a/c kicks on, it puts a lag in the system, lowering voltage which ups amperage to compensate.
do the lights dim when the a/c kicks on?

or, maybe one of your ballasts is fucked?
maybe try unplugging them one by one to see if that helps.
didnt get many answerrs from you in your last thead on this same subject.
obviously your problem did not go away.
plus the sub out of another sub isnt a good idea.
tried to tell you

 

[PharmaCan]

DH - What is the size of the wire and length of the run from your main panel to your sub-panel?

What is the size of the wire in the power cord running to your controller?

What is the line voltage going into your sub-panel?

What is the line voltage coming out of that 240 breaker?

Is the controller UL listed?

Why won't you put wire clamps in the holes your wires pass through?

PC

 

[Stay Puft]

And the saga continues....
Thanks PC and CF for all your efforts. It has been a hoot to watch thus far!
I am not sure if I should bring a notebook or marsh-mellows to this thread.

Since it takes 20mins to pop breaker, I guess you can cross off In-Rush as the problem.

Like CF said- You have something seriously messed up. I would not leave that setup running until you have this problem resolved!

Have you ever taken the time to make a line drawing of your setup? (You know...A schematic type thing.) Sometimes the errors become clear when you see them in your drawings! Or perhaps you will discover the error while making the drawings. Either way... a drawing is a good thing to have.
Good Luck,
Stay_Puft

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

tried to tell you b4 your shits all fucked up.
you got 40a total feeding that whole panel.
plus your trying to draw all available juice just in lights.
plus you have an a/c and other shit running too.
my money says that when the a/c kicks on, it puts a lag in the system, lowering voltage which ups amperage to compensate.
do the lights dim when the a/c kicks on?

or, maybe one of your ballasts is fucked?
maybe try unplugging them one by one to see if that helps.
didnt get many answerrs from you in your last thead on this same subject.
obviously your problem did not go away.
plus the sub out of another sub isnt a good idea.
tried to tell you

sorry. i had replaced the main breaker with a 60-60.
also- in my veg room im only running a 600W digi, a lightmover 3 4" T12's and a few fans NO A/C, so all my power is dedicated to the flower. the veg should be about 4 amps of 240 the digi is only 2.4/5
ok the central a/c is rarely on, and only during the middle of the day(when my flower room is sleeping) i planned it out like that for a few reasons, but i rarely use it im trying to not use power when-ever possible.

when i unplug #2 and ran with 4600 everything ran without incident, a 40-40 shouldnt be poping with 28 amps of pull.

i have a stagerd turn-on, 3K turns on at 7:30pm and at 9:30pm the other 2600 turns on, dont know if it matters or not.
here is the main i worked on. the 60-60 next to the 100-100 is the new circuit.

shit id turn the 40-40 a/c breaker off if that would help, but its not running so i doubt it can affect anything.


the rest of the house runs minimal power-useage, TV, a small pc, a few CFL lights, with the ocasional dishwasher load.

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

And the saga continues....
Thanks PC and CF for all your efforts. It has been a hoot to watch thus far!
I am not sure if I should bring a notebook or marsh-mellows to this thread.

Since it takes 20mins to pop breaker, I guess you can cross off In-Rush as the problem.

Like CF said- You have something seriously messed up. I would not leave that setup running until you have this problem resolved!

Have you ever taken the time to make a line drawing of your setup? (You know...A schematic type thing.) Sometimes the errors become clear when you see them in your drawings! Or perhaps you will discover the error while making the drawings. Either way... a drawing is a good thing to have.
Good Luck,
Stay_Puft

i hope this line drawing makes sence.

this is all bullshit. there is no reason it should be poping.

DH - What is the size of the wire and length of the run from your main panel to your sub-panel?

24 ft from main to sub #1 #6 cable
18 ft from sub#1->#2 #8 cable

What is the size of the wire in the power cord running to your controller?

#8/3 neutral /ground are both ground.

What is the line voltage going into your sub-panel?

how do i figure that out?

What is the line voltage coming out of that 240 breaker?

how do i figure that out?

Is the controller UL listed?

YES.

Why won't you put wire clamps in the holes your wires pass through?
PC

ill get to it once i quit making bi-weekly changes. theres no motion/rubbing i just dont see it as a priority until i quit changing-out.

i know they should be there, and will be there, but dont tell me thats whats making it pop.

 

[CDM]

Ok, you need to get yourself an Amp probe. it will have a large jaw on the front, you clip it around a wire and it will tell you how much current, (amps) is being drawn.

You clearly are drawing too many amps, you need to find out for sure what is going on, or your going to have a problem.

find out which wire is pulling way too much, and then remove that unit.
all this guessing around is just putting your work, house and life at risk.

I wish I could help you out more, but without taking measurments its just gonna be guess work.

You need to know for sure whats up..
the only way is to measure amps, not voltage.
Also, if you dont know how to measure your line voltage, or have the tools to do so, you really are not qualified to be doing this wiring..
You need to find someone that will help you out. you are risking a lot by not knowing basic electricity which can kill you.

I wish I could help you out honestly.

 

[CDM]

Im betting that your breaker box shown, is fed from a panel by one lag.. which cannot handle the current load you are putting on the system.

But without the tools to measure, there is no way to tell.. Lots of shit can cause overloads.. all bad usually..

a ballest shorting out will go over current also. you think your drawing 28 amps but your pulling more, the breakers are not lying to you, they are protecting your ass here...

So, get an amp probe if you cant trust anybody, try each power line until you find the sucker that is way high, and get rid of it..

then you can also check the lag from your drop box to the main breaker and check the load there.

Your main box looks old as shit, a dirty connecter on the main can cause a high current load if the connection is bad or corroded.
You really need to know what you are doing here, this shit can kill ya.

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

Ok, you need to get yourself an Amp probe. it will have a large jaw on the front, you clip it around a wire and it will tell you how much current, (amps) is being drawn.

what do you think about this model....
http://www.professionalequipment.co...luke-acd-10-plus-3037808/digital-multimeters/

find out which wire is pulling way too much, and then remove that unit.
all this guessing around is just putting your work, house and life at risk.

im not woried atall about fire. the breaker is doing its job.


ok, so ive been careful this whole time to balance the load. the stick chart was kind of crude, i wish i had visio so i could make a cool chart....anyways....so when i pop open the MLC-8 box and look at the wireing, each plug gets a red and black. (both hot) and if each ballast is pulling 5a/5a then the load is even... im wondering if one of the ballasts is shorting out...

i paid close attention to the red/black and made sure i was balancing load evenly... my 15Kbtu a/c is on red and ALL my accessories (14 fans, dehumy, light mover, variouse floros, timers, and triggers) are on black... so its about 12-14a for the a/c on red and id say 8-10A of accessories on black.

but that current is all on different circuits....

 

[PharmaCan]

DH - To check the referenced voltages, use a volt meter or multi-meter. Put one probe on the exposed wire end or connecting screw, the other end on a ground or neutral. First check voltages with everything turned off, then check again with everything turned on.

What's happening with the a/c in the grow room when you're having these problems? Is it on? Off? Cycling on and off?

When your lights have been on for 19 minutes, is the cord to the controller warm?

Do you have access to another 1,000 watt ballast you can plug into #2, just to make sure that one ballast isn't causing the problem?

The edges on those holes are sharp. Wire clamps are more important when you're having to dick around with things because of the potential for cutting the insulation while moving the wires around.

What about the wire size on the power cord to the controller?

Like Frank said, you're overloaded. Maybe not on each individual breaker, but with everything combined.

I'll get back to you on the sizes of the feed wires - need to find a table and check.

PC

 

[CDM]

Thats a perfect unit Digitalhippy, Fluke is a great brand.. that will tell you exactly where the problem is and is worth the money.. it will make it easy for you to find where the current draw is.

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

DH - To check the referenced voltages, use a volt meter or multi-meter. Put one probe on the exposed wire end or connecting screw, the other end on a ground or neutral. First check voltages with everything turned off, then check again with everything turned on.

What's happening with the a/c in the grow room when you're having these problems? Is it on? Off? Cycling on and off?

When your lights have been on for 19 minutes, is the cord to the controller warm?

Do you have access to another 1,000 watt ballast you can plug into #2, just to make sure that one ballast isn't causing the problem?

The edges on those holes are sharp. Wire clamps are more important when you're having to dick around with things because of the potential for cutting the insulation while moving the wires around.

What about the wire size on the power cord to the controller?

Like Frank said, you're overloaded. Maybe not on each individual breaker, but with everything combined.

I'll get back to you on the sizes of the feed wires - need to find a table and check.

PC

its #8 wire from controller-> sub it gets warm but not hot. ive felt hot and warm and cool, but its a lukewarm. nothing that i cant hold all-day-long.

ill try a new ballast, that amp probe will help me figure this out.
C.A.P. recomends a 40AMP double breaker for this box, they recomend #8, i followed each step, i called them, they say it should be good up to 8K with a 40 amp,@4.8 a ballast thats right on the line though... maybe i need a double 50?

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

shit, how do thoes asian gangs get away with 70 1K ballasts and a/c to match that shit, even with only 1/2 of them on theyd need a 250 amp+ service... i thought my 100amp was good.....

 

[FreezerBoy]

Fluke is a great brand

If it works, it must be a Fluke. I always loved that tagline.

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

Fluke is a great brand.. .

i used there $20K cat5e/6 machine to do cat 5e and 6 certs on my runs back when i used to pull cable.... does this unit tell me line voltage? id like to get one that does..
PC was telling me about linedrop, and i think he might have somthing.

if its not a voltage-drop issue it might have been heat-orientated....
i removed the covers to take a pic and pluged a couple extra lights in, nothing went out.... the breaker is warm and so is the wire...

that or #2 ballast went bad, i swaped it out but i should swap the ballast back to the original #2 and see if its the sub-cover causing issues.

i think it was holding the heat in that tiny sub-panel.

sub panel #1




sub panel #2




ballasts.

 

[luciano28]

shit, how do thoes asian gangs get away with 70 1K ballasts and a/c to match that shit, even with only 1/2 of them on theyd need a 250 amp+ service... i thought my 100amp was good.....

They steal power is my guess. Or go off the grid with a gen. They also buy homes they dont live in, they dedicate the whole home's electricity system to the grow.

As for a meter, Fluke is pretty expensive, Id think you are wasting your money by buying a Fluke, there are plenty of cheaper analog versions that will get you through your project. Get yourself a cheap multi-meter and some extra fuses for the leads. You probably wouldnt even need the extra fuses(they only cost pennies though), just remember to change the setting to volts before you check voltage( I have blown lots of fuses just grabbing the meter and checking volts when its still on ohms). Once you get everything fixed correctly in your room, you will probably never touch the meter again, but these guys are right Fluke is a great meter, I just dont think you need to spend all that money.

 

[luciano28]

Why do you got #10 or #12(I cant tell by looking at it) under a 60A breaker in Sub Panel #1.

2 different size wire under that 15 in SP #2 too.(I guess that isnt that big of a deal, but it aint right)

Mickey Mouse work will give you some Mickey Mouse results.

Do you know anyone you trust with any wiring skills? You need someone to come in

 

[TokeItUp420]

Digital - The breakers are saving your ass by working right now, BUT if you don't know what you are doing than it's possible you could make it so that the breakers don't work the way they are intended and then you could have real problems. Example is more than one wire underneath a breaker. Somebody earlier gave some good advice....Find a stoner electrician to give you a hand.



Peace....
Toke

 

[Bush Grower]

Digi.. just go to home depot or lowes and get a multi meter. They're cheap.