Advice wanted on feeding plan and bush/guerilla friendly nutrients.

[Creeperpark]

Getting a soil test is a super-smart thing to do. When amending outdoor soil plots I have found it's best to amend the soil in the Fall and Winter before getting a test. It takes a lot of time for compost and other amendments to break down. The microbe populations work to convert the nutrients but it can take a few months or more. Organic amendments can be slow and pre-planning your plots would help a lot.

For your soil test improvement, I would work in an inch of some fine alkaline clay. Top dress around the plants and work it in the ground. It will do 2 things, first, it will buffer the pH slightly and 2 it will attach and hold on to the phosphorus before it washes away. The reason you are low in phosphorus is that area has had excess yearly rainfall in the past.

Clay Content. Soils with higher clay content have high phosphorus retention capacity because clay particles have a very large surface area per unit volume, which can adsorb phosphorus easily. Google

I found that putting liquid nutrients on plants in the Wild will give ugly bad-tasting buds in the end. Keep it simple. Keep us posted Friend.

 

[@peace]

These plants are in a clearing made many decades ago a few thousand sq ft on the edge of acres of woods. North and to the east of the site is a large pasture/field and to the northwest the forest continues. Many acres of woods/forest in the surrounding areas to the south. Here is a blurry aerial view plants are in the northern area of the circle. This is a forest in the northeast near new England. Not too good with trees but the forest is largely made up of hardwood trees (fair bit of maples) as well birch and a lot of what I think are pine trees or some type of needley/coniferous trees. The clearing is basically entirely covered in ferns with a few brambles- This picture of the plot was taken while clearing before transplanting. You can see some of last years weeds/fern stems that are still on the ground. You can see some of the trees in the background although a bit blurry.

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5.5 Seems a bit low although not impossible the other area i tested came back at 4.9 . This area often gets a lot of water and the ground stays wet however during the spring/summer the ferns and surrounding vegetation drink it up and it is relatively normal. I tried my best to take a good sample following the instructions given. I gathered soil from the top 1-6 inches using a trowel to slice a section down and took soil from a few spots as per the instructions I was given but the sample may have been slightly more biased towards the top few inches. I pulled out the native vegetation by hand 10 days before taking the sample and was sure to dry for several days and remove almost all roots in the sample i gathered before submitting. I could probably have taken a better or slightly deeper soil sample but I think the results are relatively accurate as is.

Thank you for that suggestion. I found that spectrum analytics page and interestingly enough it stated that soil pH of 5.5 or lower can often cause manganese toxicity- very helpful information I will need to keep that in mind as I observe the plants.



Great! I will strongly consider doing this. Bone meal seems like a universal recommendation! I have some jobes tomato feed I wanted to use anyway so will go ahead and add it. All these can be top dressed on my plants correct? Lime would additionally be spread out over the area correct?
Thanks for the help!

That picture helps a lot to explain the sample and it sounds like you did your best to sample correctly. The pH is likely correct, those types of trees tend to prefer more acidic soils. So I would tend to believe the pH in this case. It may change some as the soil dries, but I would treat it as an acidic soil and add lime. No problem on the spectrum suggestion.

 

[Ca++]

I think with the bone meal, the feed profile won't be bad. A general purpose addresses the B and a bit more of everything likely wouldn't hurt. We don't see N in these field tests, and it's important to cannabis. The old wisdom is to reduce N in bloom, while raising K. Recent testing shows N is more more important to yield. In field tests, K was actually shown to do nothing.

I'm being a bit flaky today. I see you need some weed feed targets, and some application rate advice

I have done well in low pH soils. High pH has been an issue, but one of the better sites is 4.7

 

[laszlokovacs]

Much appreciated Guys!Gonna be able to visit my plants next week after 3 weeks without seeing them. I'll to apply the maximum 5lbs/100sq ft of limestone suggested by the soil test people to the general area. Will follow the suggestions of 4lb/100sq ft bone meal as well I think- already have a bag of blood meal- I think I will scatter that in the area/top dress too. Hopefully the plants will be sexed when I see them, ideally I want to cull the males and then dig up those holes/amend with all these nutrients and transplant a couple plants in a few weeks. I have a couple pounds of worm castings and some more compost ill add too, might even spray with some serenade as well-for all I know bugs are kicking their ass right now.

Not too worried about the pH ultimately as the area seems very lush and my vegetable garden is doing ok in similar soil at an even lower pH. Still think adding a bit of lime is worthwhile however, @Creeperpark what exactly is it you're describing? I can't seem to find much written on it, I'm assuming a modeling clay type product wouldn't do the trick. I suppose I could probably find a creek in the area and try to harvest some natural clay nearby which would have the added benefit of indigenous microorganisms- I might be too lazy for that though haha- I think I have a lot on my plate for next weekend.

 

[xet]

I make Activated Aerated Compost Tea

For at home use I use 25 gallon bucket.

For the bush I use a clear 5 gallon bucket.

Fill 1/5 with solids for at home, 1/3 for the bush, the remaining with water
use a cheap aquarium pump for 24 hours till the foam smells like heaven and dump asap at the roots and over the leaves

walked thru a thousand grasshoppers and she was fine

 

[Ca++]

I like to take a couple of concentrates, a sprayer and some water. Sometimes they need insecticide. Sometimes a bit of nutrient. Sometimes fungicide. I use organocide which turns to PK in a week or two. So that has use in crop steering.

My rainfall and soil type gives late Feb as the best time to surface dress. Giving 6-8 inches of penetration. I have to compromise with an end of season test, and later amendment. There is just no tree cover in late Feb. Not all amendments can be made before winter here, as things will wash out.


You need a few little bottles for the concentrates and wetting agent. I take enough of each, for the number of spray bottles I can fill. This makes dosing on-site easier

 

[laszlokovacs]

Update- 3 weeks without a visit/1 month post transplant- plants are doing fine for the most part, some of the local vegetation grew back and was outcompeteting the plants but i cut it back pretty hard. Over the past few days I have cut weeds, added bone meal, blood meal, tomato feed, worm castings, wood ash, lime, and more compost, fed 2x a few days apart with both miracle gro all purpose one day and Neptune's harvest a bit under a week later. Average height is probably about 2 feet, tallest is near my stomach height. So far they are doing decent- I defoliated some plants a bit because of some leaf spot I discovered on a few leaves- I removed them and sprayed all 11 plants with gardensafe fungicide3- fingers crossed it controls that because otherwise things are going pretty well for my first real outdoor grow and first time in the bush- only fed once really a month ago.

Plants look reasonably happy- hopefully after all this feeding + with summer starting they really take off- I feel really lucky no animals have destroyed/eaten them- 1 was topped but looks fine almost zero insect damage to speak of. Oh and 10 of these plants were reg seeds and at least 7 seem to females so- far maybe more.

 

[laszlokovacs]

Pulled out this guy- only male i thought I spotted- Put in a Twin Turbo Diesel by HSI humboldt in its place that popped about a week ago. Obviously a beginner as the name of the thread implies- would love a confirmation that this is infact a dude as this plant is sitting on top of my compost pile right now, plants in the spot are still at 11 total now, have 2 clones rooted in water of a cherry dragon already in ground and the biggest one currently. Im going to either pull more males if they develop or just plant the clones in the space in between all the plants. One of these shots you can see all 11 plants if you look closely.

I like to take a couple of concentrates, a sprayer and some water. Sometimes they need insecticide. Sometimes a bit of nutrient. Sometimes fungicide. I use organocide which turns to PK in a week or two. So that has use in crop steering.

Ill look into organocide, I saw some reviews complaining about it burning plants but they could have just been dumb and not following directions. It looks like it doesnt have neem- i dont really know anything but I am not too keen on spraying a lot with neem. Hoping this fungicide3 does the trick because it definitely has neem. I dont think id use this to spray anytime once flowering actually starts even with a bud wash planned.

 

[Ca++]

I have a 1.5L spray bottle. It's 2ml preventative and 10ml if you actually have mold. For my 1.5L bottle.
I can see how people would use 15ml to make it better, then use it every time, because obviously it can take it. People do seem to do such things like it's there own personal touch, they simply must do.

 

[Chunkypigs]

Ok. I have obtained results from my soil test for the immediate area I currently have plants in. I would love to hear other's thoughts on nutrient needs given these results. Right off the bat I will say I am surprised by the lower than expected pH value of the soil. My earlier attempt to measure soil pH using a coffee filter with soil and well water were much higher around 6.5-7 pH. Additionally while I understand aluminum is problematic in soil at lower pH, it would seem they are rather high (another plot nearby had even larger values)- similarly the iron and manganese values seem far greater than the given 'optimum levels' and I am unsure as to what to make of this. Obviously it seems I will need to supply phosphorus for my plants based on these results and likely potassium and nitrogen to some extent as well. Never had any soil test done before so I dont really know how to react to these results yet. Broad strokes purposes is this looking like good/bad soil as is?

My plants are currently in the ground in holes filled with a 50/50 mixture of the soil tested above and cheap bagged compost I purchased. I'm hoping the compost will feed them at least a little bit until I can visit them again and feed/amend.

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congrats on getting the soil test! I am midway through a year long workshop on interpreting them.
the type you got is a bit unusual, the modified morgan, not the type most folks use now but they are regionally specific. do you live close to the ocean?

they didn't give you a figure on how much salt you have but I guessed at a low number like 20 ppms and plugged your figures into my spreadsheet and it looks like this.

so low on calcium and potassium and high in mag.

this is a conservative set of numbers I would try to shoot for if that was my patch to get you into late Albrect numbers or close to what Slownickle preaches.

@Slownickle says to disregard lab results for exchangeable hydrogen/acidity and when I take that to zero look how nice it looks.

unfortunately you mixed in 50/50 "cheap compost" which has unknown amounts of N and K that make an appropriate feed imposssible to guess at. without retesting the current mix it's not possible to really do much in terms of a real soil rec.

don't stress on the aluminum my soil has 5 times as much as yours and my weed comes out very nice.

if you ant to till up a patch nearby and try again without the compost I can help you dial in something that will be ready to plant in next spring or next week.

I'm working on a new bed now for this season's seed plants and some left over clones.

it's never too late to overgrow...

this is what my local soil test looks like when I start on this swampy spot.

Good luck with your season.

 

[Creeperpark]

Chunky Those are some very pretty plants that look super healthy. By looking at the test above I gather that you are growing in sandy loam. Correct?

 

[Chunkypigs]

Chunky Those are some very pretty plants that look super healthy. By looking at the test above I gather that you are growing in sandy loam. Correct?

no that's what my native heavy clay swamp soil tests like next to the stream, clayey loam.
those plants are growing in that soil in a patch that has been worked hard for 4 seasons.
this is how the soil tested after those plants were harvested last year.

I am pushing very high nutrition in that bed and give water only with minerals tilled in in the spring and 3-4 top dressing during the growing season.

 

[laszlokovacs]

congrats on getting the soil test! I am midway through a year long workshop on interpreting them.
the type you got is a bit unusual, the modified morgan, not the type most folks use now but they are regionally specific. do you live close to the ocean?

Good luck with your season.

Thank you for your help chunky! Yes the modified morgan is regional, if you conisder 150 miles from shore close to the ocean then maybe but salinity would does not seem to be a problem I wouldn't think.

I have an extremely rudimentary understanding of soil science and nutrient exchange. I will need to learn more about it to fully understand my soil test- I had never heard of slownickel but thank you for pointing me in that direction, currently 20 pages deep in a 200 page thread I will be sure to read through completely. Yes although I only added 2 cu ft of compost total it is kind of impossible to determine exactly what the composition of the soil is now as I have also added small amounts of bone meal, blood meal, tomato food, worm castings, lime, ash, etc... I have a basic understanding that I need to add P, Ca, and some K but no way of calculating actual pounds of macros/micros needed. I will probably get another test of the area or start from scratch for next year though.

I wish I had a tiller to make a new plot but no clones to put in either. So far plants looked good before even adding the amendments so I will just baby them and learn about this stuff so I can get things dialed better by harvest/planting time next year.

Your plants look great! Some real inspiration for an outdoor garden! Good luck with your class! Sounds interesting

 

[Chunkypigs]

2 cu foot of compost is nothing on 200 sq feet.

I can work up something based off the test. are you certain the area is 200 sq feet? you measured it?

Thank you for your help chunky! Yes the modified morgan is regional, if you conisder 150 miles from shore close to the ocean then maybe but salinity would does not seem to be a problem I wouldn't think.

I have an extremely rudimentary understanding of soil science and nutrient exchange. I will need to learn more about it to fully understand my soil test- I had never heard of slownickel but thank you for pointing me in that direction, currently 20 pages deep in a 200 page thread I will be sure to read through completely. Yes although I only added 2 cu ft of compost total it is kind of impossible to determine exactly what the composition of the soil is now as I have also added small amounts of bone meal, blood meal, tomato food, worm castings, lime, ash, etc... I have a basic understanding that I need to add P, Ca, and some K but no way of calculating actual pounds of macros/micros needed. I will probably get another test of the area or start from scratch for next year though.

I wish I had a tiller to make a new plot but no clones to put in either. So far plants looked good before even adding the amendments so I will just baby them and learn about this stuff so I can get things dialed better by harvest/planting time next year.

Your plants look great! Some real inspiration for an outdoor garden! Good luck with your class! Sounds interesting

 

[laszlokovacs]

That is incredibly generous of you dude! I dug small holes at planting time and mixed the native soil with 2 cu ft compost total. It is nearly 200 sq ft- I could measure precisely tomorrow but I havent dug into the ground anywhere other then when transplanting and adding compost. I can get you a pretty exact calculation of the amount of amendments I added and their npk but with the exception of the lime I only used them to topdress the 11 or so plants currently in the ground so in total not very much added. Thank you very much for your offer- I'd be happy to get some recommendations if it's not too much of a bother for you.

 

[farmerlion]

I am growing my plants outdoors directly in the ground in holes amended with cheap compost combined with the native soil. I have been trying to think of nutrients to use that will work best and do not want to attract animals-some plants are caged, not all but I dont want any animals trying to dig up shit. It would seem then that a lot of organic/animal product fertilizers would be a no go because they attract animals. To get around this I am hoping to use a combination of organic and synthetic nutes but I have no experience so I am having trouble thinking of a feeding schedule/regimen. So far I have watered my plants once with a MiracleGro All purpose 24-8-16 and they have been in the ground 5 days.

I am considering a few types of nutrients, I think a bunch of the organic options are off the table. Thinking of doing a very straightforward approach to feeding, will try a two part regular synthetic feeding schedule either something close to the lucas formula or an all purpose + bloom booster approach. Here is a list of nutrients I have thought of using divided into whether they CAN or CANNOT be used outdoors without attracting animals. The area they are in has lots of vegetation and trees soil is fairly neutral ph and gets plenty of water through rain. Any nutrients would be mixed into well water that is potable and is fairly neutral with a ph in the high 6s.


CAN be used outside-
ORGANIC-
Worm Castings
Bat Guano
Compost
Molasses
Brewed Teas made of grass/clippings/weeds/comfrey etc.
SYNTHETIC-
MiracleGro fertilizers i.e all purpose, bloom booster etc...
General Hydroponics flora series bottles 2part of 3part series
Jack's fertilizers either 20-20-20 or something else

CANNOT be used (without attracting animals)-
Blood Meal
Fish Emulsion (Neptune's Harvest etc)
Bone Meal
Chicken Manure
Espoma Gardentone/Jobe's organic tomato food granular fertilizers
Alfalfa Meal

Please add to it or correct me if I am mistaken about any of these fertilizers. If anyone knows or has any experience with feather meal or cow manure let me know whether or not they attract animals. Thanks!

Hey my friend,
It's good to see you asking questions. I wish I had seen your thread earlier.
Please search my thread Making Marijuana Great Again. I cover and explain/display the why's the how to's and the why you don'ts.
I have developed Fungal Repositories System and if you want the healthiest, largest crops you've ever had, you need to study my thread. Expand the condensed posts on the first couple pages for the information.

Please don't ever waste your money and time on synthetic fertilizers.
Peace farmerlion

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Definitely need to find something to supply a bit of boron for best health. I don't see molybdenum listed... any clue?

 

[xet]

Definitely need to find something to supply a bit of boron for best health. I don't see molybdenum listed... any clue?

Powdered Chicken bones. Calcium>Boron> and don't forget Strontium on the end of that magic trio.

 

[Chunkypigs]

That is incredibly generous of you dude! I dug small holes at planting time and mixed the native soil with 2 cu ft compost total. It is nearly 200 sq ft- I could measure precisely tomorrow but I havent dug into the ground anywhere other then when transplanting and adding compost. I can get you a pretty exact calculation of the amount of amendments I added and their npk but with the exception of the lime I only used them to topdress the 11 or so plants currently in the ground so in total not very much added. Thank you very much for your offer- I'd be happy to get some recommendations if it's not too much of a bother for you.

sorry I been busy gardening, how are your plants looking so far?

the ideal numbers for elements that are given on soil tests are minimums for vegtable and hay production, not what you want to use to get good secondary metabolite expression in weed.

your test.

there is no agreement as to what the "right" numbers are or the proper proportions of base saturation of cations is, so far I've had good results with Slownickle's suggestions.

this is the base sat of the numbers on your test, they are pretty good just low on potassium.

Albrecht figured out way back when that soil needed a minimum of 2000 ppms of Calcium as a minimum.

this is what your base sat would look like if we raise the Ca to 2500 ppms with ag lime, the ag lime has Magnesium in it so I would choose other forms of Ca but this would be the easy way using cheap and easy to source amendments.

100 square feet of native soil will be about 1 yard tilled up and my oldest patch about 3 yards after years of adding and tilling in lots of wood chip compost, rice hulls, and perlite.

this is the calculation for how much Calcium in the form of AG Lime each 100 square feet of your patch will need to raise the Ca ppms to 2500. I'm using the analysis figures from my bag of lime, 33% Ca and 3% Mg

using the bulk density figure from your soil test, 0.82 grams per cc. my bulk density is half yours after all the fluffing.

so you need 2476 grams or 5.45#s of Ag Lime per 100 sq feet. in my garden I would use Aragonite as it doesn't bring and Mg with it and this lets you use less of it as well as less potassium to get your numbers balanced. it's also pretty cheap, $14 for 50#, ag lime here is $8 for 50#s.

figuring out the rest of the mineral rec needs to be done after I find out what you are able to source and want to use or can afford. I'm guessing you are in Mass and if so I'm going there shortly and might be able to drop you the minerals or mail them depending...

shoot me a DM and if you want I could send you a box with the hard to source amendments. if you have the budget and desire you can buy everything from amazon or hydro stores but they charge 10x the price to buy these things by the pound. the people who are teaching the class I'm in will sell you everything on a soil rec and ship it from Utah also.

in the mean time a weekly feeding of whatever liquid feed you were talking about will work.

my plants are loving mineral balanced soil...

 

[Chunkypigs]

Definitely need to find something to supply a bit of boron for best health. I don't see molybdenum listed... any clue?

your killing me here joker, let's see the figures for Boron and Molybdenum from your plants...