I know a lot of Ace's sativa strains are not big feeders. Will they do alright if sprouted in relatively hot organic soil mixes so long as you don't fertilize them for the first few weeks? By "hot" I mean enriched with a lot of nutrient sources such a guano, earthworm castings etc.
Ace Strains and "Hot Soil?"
- Thread starter The Hatter
- Start date
RedDirtWarrior
Member
sprouted? I'm gonna go ahead and say no, esp for nute sensitive strains close to their wild ancestors.
My best guess would be orient express as it tolerates heavy nutes but in flower.
My best guess would be orient express as it tolerates heavy nutes but in flower.
You can chill it by soaking it let it sit for a day or 2 before u use it..or u can cut it with some soiless medium thast not pre charged like Sunshine #2
Thanks for the heads up.
Would flushing the soil help?
S
scai
Err?
I'm sprouting in a mix of fertilaized soil /peat,sphagnum and some nice indegriendts.Like minerals and mychoriza.Very low in fertilaziers...and this can go on till blooming time...
I'm sprouting in a mix of fertilaized soil /peat,sphagnum and some nice indegriendts.Like minerals and mychoriza.Very low in fertilaziers...and this can go on till blooming time...
Sorry flushing probably isn't the right term. By flushing the soil I meant running a lot of water through it to rinse out some of the nutrients to prevent newborn plants from getting nutrient burn. I've been told that fox farms soil is rather "hot" out of the bag which has me concerned.
I've read that landrace sativas really don't like heavy nutes. The mix was fine for the usual nutrient hog dutch genetics but I worry its going to do a number on strains such as Destroyer and Nep Jam.
I've read that landrace sativas really don't like heavy nutes. The mix was fine for the usual nutrient hog dutch genetics but I worry its going to do a number on strains such as Destroyer and Nep Jam.
I should add that the deed is already done, so this is damage control. I think uprooting them and putting them in more mellow soil would probably do more damage than good? They are too small to really see any signs of burn. (First leaves just popping out.)
I run fox farm happy frog because its less dosed than the ocean forest is and it's still a bit hot initially for anything from ace - and most strains in general as well. Here's an established purple OTH showing yellowing/over fert and then bouncing back after just topdressing with straight Happy Frog and nothing added:
I would say run some water through em and let em but don't go overboard with it. Let them get used to the soil and you'll be fine.
Frankly, I've tried all of the super soil recipes and I keep finding that all I do is cook the plants, even after allowing the soil to sit for long periods. Now I just run straight bagged happy frog soil with nothing added, then topdress (with a liter or so of soil) as they look deficient - which is rare.
I also like using larger pots (1gal seedlings till 15 inches - 4gal mature veg - 10gal flower) so they have more soil/nutes available to em. Yeah, you waste a little soil, but they sure love those big pots in flower!
If you want to ensure the little ones are impossible to kill, add a tsp of microbes from a product like Oregonism from Roots (humic and fulvic in there as well) it'll keep em pushing.
I would say run some water through em and let em but don't go overboard with it. Let them get used to the soil and you'll be fine.
Frankly, I've tried all of the super soil recipes and I keep finding that all I do is cook the plants, even after allowing the soil to sit for long periods. Now I just run straight bagged happy frog soil with nothing added, then topdress (with a liter or so of soil) as they look deficient - which is rare.
I also like using larger pots (1gal seedlings till 15 inches - 4gal mature veg - 10gal flower) so they have more soil/nutes available to em. Yeah, you waste a little soil, but they sure love those big pots in flower!
If you want to ensure the little ones are impossible to kill, add a tsp of microbes from a product like Oregonism from Roots (humic and fulvic in there as well) it'll keep em pushing.
Thanks for the help. The mix is half happy frog and half ocean forest. I haven't added anything but pumice to it for drainage so hopefully all that will happen is a little stunting until they acclimate to it.
Hello Hatter,
Sounds like a very nice mix
we also like to use a similar mix of high quality soil, worm casting guano, composted shit, perlite, coco ... should be more than enough for a strong start ... at least the first month without other feedings. Good luck!I cracked Golden Tiger and OTH in straight up FFOF. No problems all the way through veg. I also run my lights 24/7 for veg. What they don't like is straight FFOF in flower. Then the dreaded clawing comes out in them. No nute burn though. So in flower I use 1:1 FFOF to leaf mold compost. No clawing and I still retain the 30 days of premixed nutes.
Side note to some of the Fox Farm products. On a couple occassions I have recieved old bags of Happy Frog and Light Warrior. These old bags of soil have wreaked havoc on seedlings. So if you feel like you may have gotten an older bag of soil, a quick check of the ph is in order. I have found the ph quite high on bags that have been sitting around.
Side note to some of the Fox Farm products. On a couple occassions I have recieved old bags of Happy Frog and Light Warrior. These old bags of soil have wreaked havoc on seedlings. So if you feel like you may have gotten an older bag of soil, a quick check of the ph is in order. I have found the ph quite high on bags that have been sitting around.
I've checked the PH and it's around 6.8 which seems like a decent range for soil. I know if it goes much higher it will start to become a problem but so far the little ones all look relatively healthy.
Thanks again for the advice.
Thanks again for the advice.
I should add that I tip my hat to ace for the 100% germination rate. 
I've checked the PH and it's around 6.8 which seems like a decent range for soil. I know if it goes much higher it will start to become a problem but so far the little ones all look relatively healthy.
Thanks again for the advice.
Yeah my soil usually runs 6.5-6.8 throughout the grow and they seem to do ok with that. Your plants should do fine. If you can use some horticultural molasses every time you water it will help keep the soil in balance. I think most bottles say to use a tablespoon(5ml) per gallon of water. I just use it as a ph down for the water. So I may only use 1-2 tablespoons per 5 gallons of water.
Sadly it looks like about half of the seedlings are starting to claw up. It looks like nitrogen burn. I'm tempted to uproot them and put them in some mellower soil but I think the stress might be worse than just letting them acclimate to the overly rich soil?
Btw in no way does this reflect on Ace's genetics but rather my own lack of foresight.
Newbie Lessons Learned.
1) Just because a soil mix is great for one strain doesn't mean it won't be too hot for another. Sativas, particularly ones close to their land race forefathers definitely seem to prefer less rich soil. Out of Destroyer, OE and Nep Jam the Destoyer is definitely the most unhappy in hot soil to start with. Oddly enough the Nep Jam seems the happiest of the three in the hot soil rather than the OE. The cheese strain I tested the soil on originally had no issues at all. It loved it. (It's one of those nute hog dutch strains.)
2) Overreacting to a problem causes even more damage than ignoring it. I flushed the little ones showing burn and then after seeing the burn getting worse I made the error of doing it again far too soon and waterlogged one of the more poorly drained pots. Poor little girl, she's worse off than if I had just left her alone.
This nice thing about all of this is that it means these Ace strains will thrive in much cheaper dirt and with far less fertilizer than the nutrient hog dutch mutts. Just wish I had done a little more research on the fox farm soil and tested it with a sativa instead of that auto cheese.
I'm just going to leave the seedlings alone, let them dry out and cross my fingers that they get used to the soil rather than tearing them all up and re-potting and re-flushing them. If anyone thinks this is a bad idea let me know. I think flushing was a good idea, I just didn't do it properly.
1) Just because a soil mix is great for one strain doesn't mean it won't be too hot for another. Sativas, particularly ones close to their land race forefathers definitely seem to prefer less rich soil. Out of Destroyer, OE and Nep Jam the Destoyer is definitely the most unhappy in hot soil to start with. Oddly enough the Nep Jam seems the happiest of the three in the hot soil rather than the OE. The cheese strain I tested the soil on originally had no issues at all. It loved it. (It's one of those nute hog dutch strains.)
2) Overreacting to a problem causes even more damage than ignoring it. I flushed the little ones showing burn and then after seeing the burn getting worse I made the error of doing it again far too soon and waterlogged one of the more poorly drained pots. Poor little girl, she's worse off than if I had just left her alone.
This nice thing about all of this is that it means these Ace strains will thrive in much cheaper dirt and with far less fertilizer than the nutrient hog dutch mutts. Just wish I had done a little more research on the fox farm soil and tested it with a sativa instead of that auto cheese.
I'm just going to leave the seedlings alone, let them dry out and cross my fingers that they get used to the soil rather than tearing them all up and re-potting and re-flushing them. If anyone thinks this is a bad idea let me know. I think flushing was a good idea, I just didn't do it properly.
I have since transplanted one of the Nep Jam that didn't look well into a new soil mix and its doing much better. I just wanted to update this with the new mix in the event that there is somebody else out there having problems with fox farm soil which is very popular around here.
The new soil mix is 1/4 Ocean Forest, 1/4 Happy Frog, 1/4 Black Gold Cactus Mix, 1/4 Pumice and Perlite with a dose of soil building microbes thrown in for good measure.
In under a week she has gone from the saddest looking of the Nep Jams to setting the bar. I think that Fox Farm's soil is just way to rich for a lot of the IBL strains or those still closely related to them. The cactus soil is comparatively nutrient poor and gritty. It seems to make a good cut for the FF stuff.
In the end its been the OE that has been most unhappy in the overly rich soil with serious leaf clawing. The destroyer actually recovered incredibly well after the flush. All of them have since recovered and are growing vigorously.
Despite the terrible treatment they have received, the Ace and Cannabiogen strains are still out pacing the dutch ones I have going along side them which didn't burn. They also smell very unique. Not just the usual skunky musk smell. Kind of peppery and incense-like.
The new soil mix is 1/4 Ocean Forest, 1/4 Happy Frog, 1/4 Black Gold Cactus Mix, 1/4 Pumice and Perlite with a dose of soil building microbes thrown in for good measure.
In under a week she has gone from the saddest looking of the Nep Jams to setting the bar. I think that Fox Farm's soil is just way to rich for a lot of the IBL strains or those still closely related to them. The cactus soil is comparatively nutrient poor and gritty. It seems to make a good cut for the FF stuff.
In the end its been the OE that has been most unhappy in the overly rich soil with serious leaf clawing. The destroyer actually recovered incredibly well after the flush. All of them have since recovered and are growing vigorously.
Despite the terrible treatment they have received, the Ace and Cannabiogen strains are still out pacing the dutch ones I have going along side them which didn't burn. They also smell very unique. Not just the usual skunky musk smell. Kind of peppery and incense-like.
hi Hatter
glad to hear your plants are doing fine. this thread might be useful to many. you were sprouting your plants in potting soil, not seedling mix? guano is too hot for seedlings. it would be really useful if you could post soil nutrient values because there's no info on fox farm offical site. one thing I can say is that good potting soils don't need any adition for most plants. just feeding when needed.
