a wicked pulse

[delta9nxs]

I'm very interested in ppk, I've begun reading the 200 page thread but ran into this thread and I have a couple questions...

I will be using a 4x4 tent in an air conditioned room, 600w hps bulb hung vertically without a cool tube... I would like to grow 4 large plants instead of many small ones... So I will probably do a vertical scrog with screens around them...

I was just about to put together a RDWC system but I think that PPK might work better for me...

So my questions are:

1. Should I use a 3 gallon bottom bucket and 5 gallon top bucket or two 3 gallons?

2. Would it make a difference if I used a rope wick or filled the plastic tube with coco? Or both?

3. What is pulse feeding? How is this controlled? I know that it is beneficial but I haven't seen where anybody has posted pictures, etc...

4. Does the reservoir on the bottom get filled by gravity or does it need a pump?

Thanks for making this new thread!

hi, johnnyrotten! well, i'm not a tent guy and really don't feel too qualified to answer questions about growing in them. but, in a 4x4 there is no way to get 4 of these in there with a 600 without burning them up because you won't be able to keep them out of the light.

one plant in a set up like mine with stacked 3.5 gal buckets and a horizontal air cooled light will fill that space up very fast.

look at the pictures in this thread to see the reservoir set up. the pulse system is just a pump that is controlled by a repeat cycle timer to deliver nutrient solution at precise intervals and duration.

you can use any medium you like. the tailpiece functions fine as a wick with most choices of soilless media as long as air porosity does not exceed about 40%.

look at zeke99's index in my signature for a lot more.

 

[Sqydro]

lookin so sweet in there mate the ppk pioneer in the vert section il be followin this hopefully learn a bit more will be quicker than reading ur ppk thread lol

best of luck mate what u looking to average per plant in this set up delta? all going to plan of course!

 

[delta9nxs]

Delta,
Thanks for the detailed response. Still trying to square the image of Snoop Dog with your on-line persona. I guess we can expect you to switch over to the SFV OG?

well, snoop and i do like to stay medicated. right now it's a big bowl of sour 13, this morning and at mid afternoon it was dope, late afternoon it was a purple kush.

man, this is a tough job!

 

[village green]

..if Snoop Dog had an engineering background....

..if Snoop Dog had an engineering background....

well, snoop and i do like to stay medicated. right now it's a big bowl of sour 13, this morning and at mid afternoon it was dope, late afternoon it was a purple kush.

man, this is a tough job!

The best growth I've achieved came from NFT and DWC. Notice I didn't say best yield...root rot saw to that. My best yields came when I converted to vert. I hung three levels of shelves from ceiling beams on chains on two sides with 3-1000 watt bare bulbs in the middle. The middle bulb was stationary but the end bulbs moved up and down 6 feet on pulleys attached to a light rail. Even with inconsistent watering of coco in 3 gallon pots, yield was much improved.
Hope to improve my scores on my next psych eval so want to go with less than 10 plants instead of the 60 in that setup. I figure a PPK would best work on a single plane and may ditch the vert mover. Perhaps 180 degree vert scrogs with two per bulb?

 

[delta9nxs]

lookin so sweet in there mate the ppk pioneer in the vert section il be followin this hopefully learn a bit more will be quicker than reading ur ppk thread lol

best of luck mate what u looking to average per plant in this set up delta? all going to plan of course!

nice try! but i'm not gonna step on that pile! really, i have no idea what's going to happen here.

the ppk thread is the experimental and theoretical thread. it's utter chaos.

in this thread i hope to show the device in short form. i really don't want to talk much theory here, just show the current build.

you can get all the theory you can stand in the other thread. but you really don't need to get involved at that level if you want to build and use one. it's very simple and straightforward.

but if you are a plant nerd like me you might like reading some of it.

thanks for your interest!

 

[johnnyrotten]

hi, johnnyrotten! well, i'm not a tent guy and really don't feel too qualified to answer questions about growing in them. but, in a 4x4 there is no way to get 4 of these in there with a 600 without burning them up because you won't be able to keep them out of the light.

one plant in a set up like mine with stacked 3.5 gal buckets and a horizontal air cooled light will fill that space up very fast.

look at the pictures in this thread to see the reservoir set up. the pulse system is just a pump that is controlled by a repeat cycle timer to deliver nutrient solution at precise intervals and duration.

you can use any medium you like. the tailpiece functions fine as a wick with most choices of soilless media as long as air porosity does not exceed about 40%.

look at zeke99's index in my signature for a lot more.

Thanks man, I will be growing up the sides of the tent, no hood, probably won't be able to veg as long as you though... the tent is 7 ft tall but i may end up just converting the whole room though...

So, I can use coco in the tail piece?

How long are the typical intervals and duration? I imagine this would depend on the medium, right?

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

so, this particular co2 generator should really be purchased with drain to waste in mind.

and the hydrogen pro people need to be a little more honest representing their product.

Alternatively, use a closed loop system with a heat exchanger.

I will be growing up the sides of the tent, no hood, probably won't be able to veg as long as you though... the tent is 7 ft tall but i may end up just converting the whole room though...

This will be largely strain dependent. If you can train back to the walls, you might have success. If you grow spindly plants, this will help too. Bushy plants that grow squat and thick will be a real challenge in this kind of space. It is a struggle to keep the plants far enough away from the lights in such a small space--if you cant train them away, they will out-compete themselves for light. You might want to double stack your sixes to get good use out of your tent size...

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Shit... D9... should I be redirecting all theoretical questions back to the original PPK thread?

 

[johnnyrotten]

I really like your reservoir... The small container with float valve regulates the amount that the plants bottom container holds?

I think you are right about stacking sixes...pretty sure that I have the ac and ventilating figured out...i would have to test running two lights though to make sure...

I have the following feminized seeds... Northern Lights x Skunk #1, Northern Lights x Blueberry, Casey Jones, Blue Satellite 2.2... Think I've got some GDP as well...

I'm was gonna grow NL/Skunk in the tent and top them once...

 

[delta9nxs]

"Hope to improve my scores on my next psych eval so want to go with less than 10 plants instead of the 60 in that setup."

hey, vg, did i miss something here?

 

[delta9nxs]

Thanks man, I will be growing up the sides of the tent, no hood, probably won't be able to veg as long as you though... the tent is 7 ft tall but i may end up just converting the whole room though...

So, I can use coco in the tail piece?

How long are the typical intervals and duration? I imagine this would depend on the medium, right?

like i said, i don't know jack about tents.

coco works fine, i grew some of the largest plants in it. i would use something with mixed length fibers so it doesn't compact or cut it with something.

my thinking on choice of medium is to use something you can get easily and locally.

then check it for porosity and amend it if necessary. i can recommend 35% air porosity for the "high" flow version that you see here. 20-25% for hand watering.

it is the mechanical qualities of a medium that are most important.

right now, with my plants small and i'm trying to get the roots to go nuts, duration of pulse is 30 seconds and 32 oz's and the interval between pulses is 60 minutes.

later, after the roots have become well established, i will increase the interval to 90 minutes and ultimately 120 towards harvest.

your duration should be measured for volume not time. we all use slightly different pumps and plumbing.

using the pulse delivery system this way plus using the "controlled water table" set by the float valve you have a wide range of adjustment for differing environmental conditions.

d9

 

[delta9nxs]

"Alternatively, use a closed loop system with a heat exchanger."

how is this pressurized?

"Shit... D9... should I be redirecting all theoretical questions back to the original PPK thread?"

naw, you know i don't give a shit! but i would like to keep the long, rambling discussions about theory to a minimum here so that we can have a short form demonstration. explanations about the mechanics are inevitable but lets try to keep the lid on the discussions about the "black hole" and the parallel universe we found in the middle of the medium.

 

[delta9nxs]

"The small container with float valve regulates the amount that the plants bottom container holds?"

yes, the float controls the level in the entire system.

also, this reminds me to correct an error. i said the little hole in the bottom of the float control box should be 5/32". this is wrong. it should be 3/32" instead.

 

[Sqydro]

nice try! but i'm not gonna step on that pile! really, i have no idea what's going to happen here.

the ppk thread is the experimental and theoretical thread. it's utter chaos.

in this thread i hope to show the device in short form. i really don't want to talk much theory here, just show the current build.

you can get all the theory you can stand in the other thread. but you really don't need to get involved at that level if you want to build and use one. it's very simple and straightforward.

but if you are a plant nerd like me you might like reading some of it.

thanks for your interest!

i just love how ur killing it and showing proof with a wick system lol sounds mental as i run RDWC polar opposites, im going to try build 1 ppk for this run as u have space for 1 at the corner of my vert bulb room were the light is being wasted, just straight coco i think im still not to sure wtf is going on after a flick theough all the interpritations in ur sig as well but il throw some pics up of my effort when shes done anyway mate i have a cut of kalischnapple about 1ft tall so prob stick that in 12/12 room and see what happens, id get away with a smaller container would i sinse my plant will pro only finish 2-3ft??

 

[delta9nxs]

i put this together for those wanting to hand water. this shows all the components necessary to build a complete "plant module".

if you use these items in a hand watered version you are ready at any time to go to sub-irrigation and pulse watering just by installing a tire valve.

first we have the materials and the tools needed. and no bullshit, this is all that is needed. except for maybe a box knife to trim the burrs off the holes and a pair of dikes to trim off the wire tie ends.

two 3.5 gal buckets, black is best but dark blue or coat it with aluminum tape or something or you will have a perfect environment for algae.

one lid, one cheap oil pan from wally's, 8 small wire ties, one standard 6" sink tailpiece (and that is what it is really called by plumbers), some fiberglass window screen, a tube of amazing goop, plumbers edition, 1/8" and 3/16" metal twist drill bits, a 3/4" spade bit, 1.5" and 2.5" hole saws, and a drill.


second, the lid. a 2.5" hole in the center and 3/16" holes around the rim to catch overflow.

third, just showing where to drill a 3/16" hole in the lower reservoir bucket. this one is at 2.75" down from the top. i wanted 3" but the molded ring is right there. the hole is at this level to intentionally create an air gap of at least 2.5". this spans the height of a perched water table with most conventional media, which is approx 1.5" average.

the last one shows a completed bottom. that's it. the only thing you would do different if you wanted to pulse would be to add a tire valve and screw a 1/4" nylon screw or something into the 3/16" hole.

 

[delta9nxs]

here we have the exotic sink tailpiece installed in the bottom of a bucket. there are several reasons i like these things for this. they have an outside diameter of precisely 1.5" and it fits the hole made by a 1.5" hole saw so tight that you have to "pop" it in.

and they already come with that nice little retaining lip built right in so i can use them stock without alterations. one of our goals in this project has been to simplify construction and use existing, readily available materials as much as possible.

the glue shot should have been first but this is how i glue them in. the top bucket is sitting on top of the bottom one to support it while the glue dries. just a very small bead of glue here is fine.

pop it in, press to fit and keep it level, leave it alone for a day.

when it dries go back to photo one and you can just see a very thick, heavy bead around the base. really put it on here. leave it alone

take the 1/8" bit and drill 8 equidistant holes around the end of the tailpiece about 3/16" from the end. take 4 of the wire ties and insert them through the holes. in one side and out the opposite number. then take the remaining four wire ties and use their locking parts on the first set in the holes to fasten them in place. trim off excess.

 

[delta9nxs]

just showing the completed "module" again.

the 3/4" holes in the side wall are there for o2 enhancement. and they work. i strongly recommend them in a container this deep. in a shallower container with 7" or less of medium you may not need them.

to make this pattern you use the 3/4" spade bit at 8 points again as it's an easily repeated pattern that can be done without measuring.

in the third photo you can just see a black line i drew to center the bit. it is at 2.5" from the bottom outside edge of the bucket. if you drill these holes like this and go to pulsing and control your pulse to less than 42 oz's per hour then you can use the lids without the 3/16" holes in the edge as this leaves enough depth to contain a pulse that large.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

"Alternatively, use a closed loop system with a heat exchanger."

how is this pressurized?

Soooooo... you have two loops and two pumps on the same CO2 trigger. The first is a closed loop that runs from the heater to the heat exchanger. The second is whatever water supply in whatever set up you want to run to steal the heat from the water heater.

The loop that plumbs into the water heater has a ball-cock and a (three setting) water reciruclator as you would use in hydronic baseboard heating. You pressurize the system with tap water or whatever up to your desired specs (12 psi, for example). Normally, the control switch to the pump is 24V DC, (i.e. low voltage from a thermostat), while the pump is powered by 120. But you can leave it constant on, and deliver 120 to the pump directly off the same switch as your timer/controller. This recirculates the same batch of water through the water heater, triggering the start valve. Then there's a second pump that moves whatever water you like through the other side of the heat exchanger.

Is all of this necessary? No. But it works. And it allows some of the keener kids to store some valuable BTUs for other applications.

 

[delta9nxs]

Soooooo... you have two loops and two pumps on the same CO2 trigger. The first is a closed loop that runs from the heater to the heat exchanger. The second is whatever water supply in whatever set up you want to run to steal the heat from the water heater.

The loop that plumbs into the water heater has a ball-cock and a (three setting) water reciruclator as you would use in hydronic baseboard heating. You pressurize the system with tap water or whatever up to your desired specs (12 psi, for example). Normally, the control switch to the pump is 24V DC, (i.e. low voltage from a thermostat), while the pump is powered by 120. But you can leave it constant on, and deliver 120 to the pump directly off the same switch as your timer/controller. This recirculates the same batch of water through the water heater, triggering the start valve. Then there's a second pump that moves whatever water you like through the other side of the heat exchanger.

Is all of this necessary? No. But it works. And it allows some of the keener kids to store some valuable BTUs for other applications.

thank you, doctor! i'm playing around with the co2 rig and have gotten burn time down to 84 seconds during which time approx 2.5 gals of water goes through. i'm about to catch it in a drum and measure the out put per day. but it's clean water so i will mix with it. and it will be sitting in the uninsulated area of the shop so it will provide some warmth there along with the ac's and ballast's this winter.

later

 

[johnnyrotten]

I think that after seeing the pictures that you are correct about the plants being too tall for a tent with the height of the buckets... I'm going to use dwc for this grow but you've really intrigued me with your buckets...

I'm subscribed to this thread. Hopefully I can use the knowledge I gain from it in the future.