A question for the growers using Jacks 5-12-26

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

Oh maybe skip the foliar lol forgot about the flower stage part. Yeah the hydro method gets the goods there quick enough. If it's the issue it'll show quick. Magnesium deficits chlorosis will actually green back up unlike some other yellowing related to nutrients that can occur. Go easy in case it's not the issue. You don't want to over correct on the wrong issue. Look for a response in the foliage. You can always go heavier but it's hard to unfuck it if you throw it off.

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

You Ph is also a considerably probable issue worth revisiting especially if you find yourself chasing your tail. Djm mentioned he flowers closer to 6.2 than 5.8 and says he thinks that low of a p. H. Leads to deficiencies. He questions why its recommended. That dude is crushing it in his set up.cool thing about jacks and my water source is that it consistently lands around 6.0-6.2 obits own unless I ad silica.

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

Forgive me for bringing up his thread So much. if you ain't read it you should. I'm a lil inspired by his thread lately. Major changes happened here after I read that. All for the better it seems.

 

[Treetroit City]

Try Epsom at 1 gram for every 3 grams jacks. I use 3-1.8-1 ratio of j. Cal. Epsom respectively. Water down to 72% for 1.2 ec or shoot for 0.5-1 gram depending on solution strength. Foliar of epsom could clear that up on new growth. Overwatering and or low temps can also cause calcium lockout which can and does cause these rust spots. Roots that are compromised show calmag issues first a lot of times even in a well balanced feed. The answer in that case is not more cal mag lol. You'll just fuck your ratios all up chasing the problem down that rabbit hole. The correction should be subtle if it's s nutrient issue because jacks works Ina wide range of varieties. If you find yourself drastically altering the recipe,it's likely not the recipe.

im a lil shocked that you woulsd need magsul with jacks though. but it can happen. ive heard people mention it/. i would be inclined to think whatganjourno is hinting at may be a possibility. fallout of the mag and cal as gypsum leaving less mag

I'm confused by these conflicting statements. First you're saying you use epsom salt(Magnesium sulfate) and then a page later saying you'd be shocked to need it(Magnesium sulfate) with Jack's.

This could be confusing to anyone reading this thread. Maybe just a misunderstanding?

 

[ganjourno]

for what its worth, im 95% sure its a ph issue and not a deficiency. I would test your ph pen to make sure its calibrated and then do a runoff test. Ypu may have too high a ph since you mentioned adding ph up - i never need to add any up, if anything i add a bit of down, so your meter may be out of calibration

 

[DrFever]

I think there can become issues with any product line of nutrients and even in soils
you got to remember that the labels have min Guaranteed meaning that is the lowest it can go but it can be a lot higher
Bottom line i think D9's pretty bang on for starter point but you as the grower ,,, Have to pay attention to what the plant is telling you
play with it if you were running lots of power and c02 @ 650 ppm your plant will starve to death again .
You have to find what works and it takes sometimes 2 years to get it perfect
Anyways unless you are running such a tight show on nutrients determining percentages or ppm of each you best invest in some Nitrogen probes, Calcium probes and so on when will it end
right ??? D9 has it right look for a line that holds ph in sink not fluctuates like a mofo
get away from the 10 bottle mixture and look for one feed line i have not tryed jacks but i am
I am presently using MIRACID 30 - 10 -10 and i got to say people that its working great least in VEG state for me PH holds in water left out for a week 6.9 - 7.0 no fluctuations i aam impressed
cause really your rolling the dice
and with products getting more popular will mean one thing ??? less QC and variations in the product

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

I'm confused by these conflicting statements. First you're saying you use epsom salt(Magnesium sulfate) and then a page later saying you'd be shocked to need it(Magnesium sulfate) with Jack's.

This could be confusing to anyone reading this thread. Maybe just a misunderstanding?

thanks for pointing that out third that does sound confusing but bear with me ill explain.

to clarify. i use magsul in my feed. i think you can get away with not using it with jacks and id be shocked if you have a noticeable or persistent enough issue to cause worry. unless you have other factors limiting mag uptake. i think theres enough mag in jacks that when used at the right ph and every thing is in check and plant uptake of mag is totally uncompromised and all things are optimal.
however ive found i often will swing ph and ill also have other issues on occasion that cause the plants to stress and usually ultimately display the chlorosis. i think theres plenty of mag in the ratio but there's clearly a mg affected issue. i also dont see this when health of the plants are humming along. if i add alot of magsul to the feed its easier i found to avoid this yellowing. also if im adding enough magsul and i see it ill hit a foliar til i can diagnose and address why the def is happening.
i personally think his problem isnt nutrient ratio so much as partial uptake capacity loss resulting in a mag def at proper mag ratios.

you can cheat it in, in a foliar and or slightly higher than needed ratios of mag in feed. even though jacks has enough it may need help with a bigger spoon or a different orifice if you arent robotically consistent and dialed. i like knowing i have plenty in their considering one of the things you lose in cannabis with lower than optimal mag is smell flavor and thc.

i keep mine loaded. could be the wrong approach but thats my take on it and why my comments seemed confusing. i dont think you really need it but i add it to cover my bases. ive not researched my theories on it much, its just what i do and its because it seems right to me. it gets me good results but honestly third ,nothing like yours. your grows always look nice. but i do remember you talking up the subject of yellowing in the biker thread. have you found jacks rarely has that issue. i have . i think its in part due to the higher calnit content than mb that i used before.

i also think that jacks unlike the other brand of nearly identical hydrosol, has plenty of mag in an optimum situation, i still want more lol.im no scientist but i like to ad more than usual magsul to make sure its there. but i also dont want to over do it and throw the ratio way off. .

so i think the issue he is facing looks like mag and im trying to figure out why but at the same time cheat in some through a foliar while he figres it out. or at least thats what i would do. i have to do this with mb if i go to low on feed i instantly correct with foliar, and then run throuhg all my temp and ph numbers.

 

[Rabbi]

Oh maybe skip the foliar lol forgot about the flower stage part. Yeah the hydro method gets the goods there quick enough. If it's the issue it'll show quick. Magnesium deficits chlorosis will actually green back up unlike some other yellowing related to nutrients that can occur. Go easy in case it's not the issue. You don't want to over correct on the wrong issue. Look for a response in the foliage. You can always go heavier but it's hard to unfuck it if you throw it off.

I run a perpetual garden so I have plants in all stages. How much epsom salt per gallon would you recommend?

 

[Rabbi]

for what its worth, im 95% sure its a ph issue and not a deficiency. I would test your ph pen to make sure its calibrated and then do a runoff test. Ypu may have too high a ph since you mentioned adding ph up - i never need to add any up, if anything i add a bit of down, so your meter may be out of calibration

For myself I use ph test drops now, wasn't a fan of the pens. I always need to add ph up because my r/o water comes out with a low ph. my ph also seems to drop back down through out the week if I'm not on top of it(which I am though).

My regular tap water has a high ph, thinking about maybe mixing the two(r/o and tap) to see if I can get more ph stability. Any thoughts on this(good or bad)?

 

[ganjourno]

I think a digital pH pen is necessary. The drops are dependable, but not accurate enough, especially for a runoff test where the soil particles will alter the color. Your RO water should have a pH of 7. You can grab a decent pH pen for $20 these days:
http://www.amazon.com/Dr-Meter®-Temperature-Compensation-Measurement-Resolution/dp/B00PU0W35K

Tap will definitely have more buffering than RO, I think mixing them is a waste, just use straight tap if you're gonna go that route. (or unless your water is very hard, like more than 250ppm)

I think pH is your issue, I bet you are feeding at too high a pH because you do not have an accurate way to read it. Your use of pH up is what sells it for me - I never need that stuff. Try feeding at 1.2EC without any pH up - just the jacks and the RO water, see if that turns things around.

 

[Rabbi]

I think a digital pH pen is necessary. The drops are dependable, but not accurate enough, especially for a runoff test where the soil particles will alter the color. Your RO water should have a pH of 7. You can grab a decent pH pen for $20 these days:
http://www.amazon.com/Dr-Meter®-Temperature-Compensation-Measurement-Resolution/dp/B00PU0W35K

Tap will definitely have more buffering than RO, I think mixing them is a waste, just use straight tap if you're gonna go that route. (or unless your water is very hard, like more than 250ppm)

I think pH is your issue, I bet you are feeding at too high a pH because you do not have an accurate way to read it. Your use of pH up is what sells it for me - I never need that stuff. Try feeding at 1.2EC without any pH up - just the jacks and the RO water, see if that turns things around.

I do have a brand new ph pen that has been sitting in my cupboard for a couple years, maybe I'll break it out.

unfortunately my tap water is very hard, over 500ppm.

My ph is very low though, it would feel odd just leaving it but maybe I'll give that a try if the epsom salt doesn't help.

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

im not sure wy it would be inadvisable to mix the ro with tap. the benefit of tap water with a ph buffering cal/carb mineral in it is helpful but only so long as there is not too much. mixing in tap til you get to a desirable ppm of natural buffers seems like a really good idea. might even help not have to use ph up or down when mixing. i like mixing in tap til its 60-100 ppms. holds a more stable ph. when i mix at tap from my city it lands at a perfect 5.9-6.2 range.

if this seems confusing its because im talking about three different spots. one is on r.o because the municipality uses well water and its .5 ec out the tap. i water down with ro til its 60-100ppm

the other spots are on a better water municipality. it comes out at 60 ppm from the tap. i dont alter the water at all at those spots.

 

[woolybear]

Nice. Wonder what the deal is with mine. Oh well I'll try the epsom salt and see where I'm at from there.

Do you add anything else other than the 15-12-26 and cal/nit?

nope i follow the 1 part jacks to 2/3 part calnit. The combo fixes the ph at 7.0 every time.

I feed for 3 days each: 25% strength 50% 100%, add jack's bloom booster eat for 3 days, then dump rez and put in 0% water. Hi end of nute is 400 ppm or so as my plant is nute sensitive. I run the bloom booster at 400ppm

I rinse out the tub and find the clean water rinses about 70ppm of residuals from the roots, so the 0% feeding phase isn't actually 0%. I love hydro!

 

[Smokin Joe]

My heads about to split open from soakin all this up lol.

 

[Avenger]

my question was about the cal nit and jacks together. at what concentration does the calnit cause the magsul in jacks to bind and fall out as gypsum. basically how concentrated can you make the full mix before the jacks and calnit react.

it is done by one member with his nutrient line up with a doser. he mixes his formula to a really strong mix and doses it to his water line and it fills his rez on a float. i was curious how concentrated i could make it to serve as a one part stock solution to be fed through a single doser.

For a down and dirty rule of thumb, simply limit the ions in the solution below the max solubility of the precipitate in question. So for calcium sulfate(gypsum) the max solubility is about 9 grams per gallon of water, this calculates to about 550 ppm Ca and 440 ppm Sulfur.

So if your stock concentrate has more than about 550 ppm calcium and about 440 ppm sulfur, you are likely to get calcium sulfate precipitate. If you stay below that, you likely will not get calcium sulfate precipitation.

 

[Avenger]

this is the fulvic acid powder I use in my stock concentrates. I mix it with the calcium nitrate, and the working solution is calculated to be 40 ppm fulvic.

 

[ayekay]

If using the jacks hydro, calnit, and blossom booster , what would the recommended ppms be for trees vegged a couple months in ppks in 4 plant 5 light vert system? Co2 supplementation as well.
Krystal from Jr peters recommended to do the blossom booster for the first two weeks but I didn't get into details regarding the type of system so I didn't ask what strength to run. Any advise is much appreciated.

 

[ganjourno]

I never run hotter than 1200ppm

 

[jump /injack]

Jack's will send along with your order a measuring spoon, use the 1/2 teaspoon end for both measurements of nutrient [the granules are different sizes] Put the Calcium Nitrate [one scoop] in to a one gallon jug 1/2 full of warm water and let it dissolve [shake it] before you put in the 5/12/26 [one scoop] or you might have lock out possibly. Shake it up and its ready. Its worked with everything I've used it on and if it didn't I'd drop that particular strain probably. I have 60ppm water, I don't even check it anymore. Jack's is no brainer, use something else if you like to spend time diddling around with magic elixir's.

Using it 6 years exclusively.

 

[Dr.RedWhite]

My experience with Jacks/Calnit is that it works very well in low PPM tap water. I typically add 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon of epsom salts per gallon. My water is very hard with a high 600 PPM and I get better results in flower using Maxibloom but the Jacks works great in veg in my lousy water.