A Question/Discussion for Breeders About Pollenating Females with Multiple Males.

[Stickybred420]

hey icmag fam. im not a crazy skilled grower and I have never bred my own seed before, but one day soon I will. once I hone my skills and get some good parent stock. but I have a question for all of you and maybe it has been asked/ answered before. its kinda complicated (in my head) and im just looking for any input on the subject. it just came to me tonight after many dabs and doobs. lol.


im wondering what you guys think about the theory of a multiple simultaneous fertiliztion by a population of males to a single female, like open pollination, but deeper down the hole.. would the seed reflect the gene pool used that has the diversity of the males used in a mixed up, jungle juice - kool-aid type of gene expression?


if you are lost, in simple terms I am wondering if you can pollinate the same female with more than one male on the same female reproductive organ to achieve a hybrid that displays the genes of ALL the males used on the female...follow me?


lets pretend for a sec that the world is perfect and that's how it works. and that there's 2 male pollen donors with the task of pollenating one single female plant.


with a single pistil on the female calyx, only one male can pollinate that calyx. whichever pollen cell touches it first wins the prize.


now, what if you have the exact same scenario, but this time its a single female calyx that shoots a PAIR of pistils.....now could 2 separate males pollinate each of these pistils individually to create a hybrid seed within that single calyx with 33.3% male A, 33.3% male B and 33.3% female X? or would it be more like 25%male A, 25% Male B and 50% Female X? can it even happen?


is it possible to have a mixed gene canna gang-bang baby? lets discuss it. maybe im way off base here and trippin balls but I think its atleast worth asking. what do you guys think? lemme know?

 

[ahortator]

Each seed is the offspring of two parents, usually one male and one female. So you will get different seeds each one from a different male on the same female.

For example if you have a Zamal feamle, and Thai, Jamaican and Mexican males you will get Zamal x Thai, Zamal x Jamaican and Zamal x Mexican. If you want to make a polyhybrid you need to do other cross in the next generation.

 

[Stickybred420]

im kinda surprised this never got more of a discussion. just no not happening?

 

[Rubber Chicken]

I agree with ahortator.

What you are asking is like if 2 guys had sex with one female and both sperms mixed with her egg and made a baby combining the 2 guys and the 1 females dna in one baby?

 

[707OGBUSH970]

Absolutely not? Have you studied the basics of genetics and plant biology?

 

[707OGBUSH970]

I mean absolutely not! LOL. It would be cool but...

 

[Koondense]

im kinda surprised this never got more of a discussion. just no not happening?

There's not much to discuss really.
Each seed is a product of just two plants, the mom and just one dad. You won't know which dad until you test every dad's progeny and find similarities between them.
And technically it's called "gang bang"

Take in account that already having only 1 male+1 female can give you many different phenos, especially if the parents are not so inbred. So if you don't have all very different and very inbred males(in your gang bang idea) there's practically near zero chance to guess the right dad.


Cheers

 

[Illuminate]

Well..im gonna say that maybe this guy is on to something, because the big book of badman breeding says to mix the boys love powders together, and then pollinate from that batch..still as previously discussed, whichever grain of pollen makes it to the base of the pistil makes the seed.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Even with mixed pollen, each seed will be the result of the pollen from only one of the males used.


Used 5 males, all mixed together? You're going to get 5 different types of seeds. Female X Male 1,2,3,4 OR 5.


Does that make more sense?

 

[Stickybred420]

lol shit sorry guys! didn't know people would be so unreceptive of this question. I have no significant backround in science so I though it would be fun to ask and atleast entertain the idea for a whole second. but yeah we are all cellular biologists who know these things for certain and exceptions have never been made before. anyway we can bury this thread I guess. fwiw I was hoping if I was gonna get shot down atleast chimera or sam would come and do it. they would probably know best of all. I leave it here tho.

 

[Stickybred420]

I mean I have a twin sister who is minutes older then I am and we are the product of 2 individual male reproductive cells pollinating the same female egg simultaneously. 2 babies from fertalization of the same egg. I just didn't think the concept was lost on plants.

 

[trichrider]

So identical twins come from one zygote that splits into two embryos. Fraternal twins, on the other hand, are called "dizygotic." This means they start out from two different zygotes, which means they come from two different eggs, each fertilized by a sperm.May 9, 2013
How do fraternal twins differ from identical twins - UCSB Science Line

scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=4016


????

 

[Stickybred420]

sorry to waste your forum space guys.

 

[djimb]

No need to apologize. You had a question about an idea you thought was cool and it was answered by knowledgeable people. If you expected a greater discussion of your idea, then I'm sorry your expectations didn't match the outcome. I get why it might have been an intriguing idea when you consider that crazy things like doubled haploids, pollen culture, etc. are possible.

I will say there is one method i'm aware of that comes close to what you proposed as a possibility, though it would require a lab and some very specialised tools.

There's a technique in human fertility called mitochondrial replacement therapy that's used to allow people with mitochondrial disorders to bear children, but it involves two eggs instead of two sperm.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_replacement_therapy

If you are interested in genetics in a general sense, there are some great resources here that can help you to understand it better, or you can just dive into a wikihole. It might not be as weird as you thought before, but it is pretty amazing and you might find you really enjoy learning about it.

 

[Natural high]

I mean I have a twin sister who is minutes older then I am and we are the product of 2 individual male reproductive cells pollinating the same female egg simultaneously. 2 babies from fertalization of the same egg. I just didn't think the concept was lost on plants.

If this is true then you and your sister are almost unique, because semi-identical twins are extremely rare. The most likely mechanism for semi-identical twins (like yourself?) is that the mothers egg splits in two prior to fertilization, thus allowing for separate sperm to fertilize each identical egg.

If this was to happen in plants then two seeds would develop from the same female ovary and so two seeds would have to fit in the same calyx. Also, it is not possible for two or more males to both fertilize the same gamete resulting in one seed.


.

 

[ctg]

Its about continued diversity within the population. Not about having two males pollinate the same pistil. The Dutch bred one male to one female for many years and ended up bottle necking the genetics therefore weakening their gene pool. Ya end up having 300 strains that have no flavor, and very little high. Using multiple males has always been the best option. RRS breading. Vic high was a huge supporter of this method.

 

[therevverend]

Don't be sorry for asking questions. There's a few questions that are dumb because people ask them over and over again and there's already tons of forum space that covers them. In which case a simple search will pop up several threads on the subject.
When that happens instead of starting a new thread just add to one of the existing ones.
But your question is a novel one and discussions of cannabis sex are always interesting.
As other posters have stated it's impossible for a cannabis plant to have twins like humans because each pistil can only produce one seed.
When it comes to identical (monozygotic) twins that are genetically identical it happens all the time in cannabis growing. Clones are identical twins with identical genetics. As with human monozygotic twins, nutrition and setting play a big role. I've given clones to people and while they are nearly identical they always come out a little bit different depending on the grower.
Many breeders want to select the best male they can find and cross it with the best female. This is the easiest way to improve strains or make good hybrids. You want to limit the genes to the very best ones instead of increasing the amount of genes to include the 2nd best, 3rd best, etc. plants.
Open pollination is usually reserved for special situations, for instance when you want to preserve a rare strain. Or if you have a good strain and want to preserve all the genes of it instead of discarding some. This is what you are interested in.
Easiest way is to move the males and females together and let the orgy commence. This isn't practical many times because there may be other strains you want separate. Or you don't need thousands of seeds so you only want a single branch impregnated.
You'd want to remove all the males a distance from the females. Collect their pollen together in a bag. Then carefully put the bag over the limbs of the females you want to impregnate. Tie off the bag so no pollen escapes, shake it up and leave it there for 24 hours. Then remove and move on to the next plant.
As you've noted you will still lose some of the genes. I've read that it takes at least 1000 plants for a 'real' strain preservation, to preserve all the genes the strain has to offer. From this I take it to heart to be very careful with my selections and choose to keep only the best genes. Only grow the best.
I'm amazed more people don't breed. Most growers either commercial or hobby don't want to risk seeding an entire crop. Sinsemilla rules the world. Growers don't like growing from seed because of the variation you get from plant to plant. Most growers only grow from seed at the beginning if they don't start from clones. Select mother plant(s), then make clones. Even outdoor growers tend to favor clones.
I'm a seed grower and an outdoor grower. I like clones and I like growing indoors, feminized seed is useful. It's not the same as growing big outdoor plants from seed produced by a vigorous male and a vigorous female. Seedling vigor is always superior to clones and you can start them a couple months earlier.
Waiting to sex plants is the biggest drawback to seed crops and even that is fixable by technology. Companies like Phylos can pre-sex your seeds for a fee of course.

 

[Stickybred420]

thanks guys I really appreciate all your responses! I have a HUGE interest in strain genetics and breeding and you all have given me excellent food for though and new questions to seek answers for!! im glad to have a community to help guide my knowledge and see the picture more clearly!!

 

[MJPassion]

lol shit sorry guys! didn't know people would be so unreceptive of this question. I have no significant backround in science so I though it would be fun to ask and atleast entertain the idea for a whole second. but yeah we are all cellular biologists who know these things for certain and exceptions have never been made before. anyway we can bury this thread I guess. fwiw I was hoping if I was gonna get shot down atleast chimera or sam would come and do it. they would probably know best of all. I leave it here tho.

Why do you need Sam or Chimera to confirm/deny your thoughts?

The fact of the matter has been stated by quite a few knowledgeable folks already. Anything they would tell you would be redundant to what’s already been said.

I had a plant that made quite a few twin seeds.

 

[Illuminate]

^^ this is what i meant when i said he may be on to something, i would also like a celebrity to chime in too because thats what makes this site fun to read...open discussion with likeminded individuals, all in it for the herbs and good vibes.