I'm interested. I know insect frass does that, only it does it by virtue of having chitin, which activates the plants SAR.
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A new england grow. Please make suggestions!
- Thread starter balsamfirgreen
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I'm interested. I know insect frass does that, only it does it by virtue of having chitin, which activates the plants SAR.
Insect Frass
Insect Frass
Wow, never heard of the stuff. Looks like a great chitin form this insect frass. That was a new word for me as well as for my spell checker. LMAO. Thanks.
There is supposedly long chained chitin and short chain chitins, the difference is supposed to be incredible. One works super well, the other not so much.
You up on this topic? The ground up scallop shells that we get for free from the dump is supposedly super high in one of these forms but I always forget which one it is or even it if is the right one... getting old.
There are several mechanisms by which autodefenses are developed in a plant. The metabolites of the bacteria which breakdown manures might work a bit differently that chitin. Have to read up more on that. It was hell trying to buy that out of print book that Kempf talked about. But well worth it. I need to scan it and post it on the soilandhealth group run by Solomon. Grab a copy of Tiedens "More food from soil science" if you join.
What has been your experience with the insect frass? You in N. England too? Flashed through your 2015 grow. Saw PM hit you as well as with Septoria leaf spot. Do you know which type Septoria you had? Did the insect Frass help?
I saw you tried Horsetail. No results? Wow. That is strange.
Insect Frass
Wow, never heard of the stuff. Looks like a great chitin form this insect frass. That was a new word for me as well as for my spell checker. LMAO. Thanks.
There is supposedly long chained chitin and short chain chitins, the difference is supposed to be incredible. One works super well, the other not so much.
You up on this topic? The ground up scallop shells that we get for free from the dump is supposedly super high in one of these forms but I always forget which one it is or even it if is the right one... getting old.
There are several mechanisms by which autodefenses are developed in a plant. The metabolites of the bacteria which breakdown manures might work a bit differently that chitin. Have to read up more on that. It was hell trying to buy that out of print book that Kempf talked about. But well worth it. I need to scan it and post it on the soilandhealth group run by Solomon. Grab a copy of Tiedens "More food from soil science" if you join.
What has been your experience with the insect frass? You in N. England too? Flashed through your 2015 grow. Saw PM hit you as well as with Septoria leaf spot. Do you know which type Septoria you had? Did the insect Frass help?
I saw you tried Horsetail. No results? Wow. That is strange.
Horsetail I didn't spray until after I got hit, and every other plant in the area had it as well. Has horsetail worked for you?
The insect frass I think just made the plants healthier overall... I didn't use it until flower last year, but this year I mixed it into each hole.
No idea what kind of leaf spot I had, but it wasn't fun. I'm going out soon to give my first preventative spray of Greencure. Gonna be rotating that with neem oil and tea tree oil. The soap I use as an emulsifier for my neem oil also has other essential oils in it like rosemary and eucalyptus. Aside from the Greencure, this is all new this year.
This year I'm spraying preemptively, only growing Spontanica, and spraying all the native plants as well. Gonna give it my best fight before it can catch on.
I'm in central Appalachia for now. Hot, humid, and just the overall perfect conditions for some nasty ass fungal attacks. It's a fucking jungle.
Appalachia mountains....
Appalachia mountains....
How funny. I grew up in the same mountains in northern NJ. Bears, deer, turkeys, bobcats.... the whole nine yards. Grew up truck farming into NYC.
All these things you are talking about are preventatives. You don't ever want to see any fungus. If you do, you already lost it. Horsetail for me is a great silica source and makes my avocado more resistant to anthracnose. We alter copper and horsetail. What I will also say is that if you can work with fish instead of synthetic nutrients, you will have much less of a problem to begin with.
There is a commercial tea tree product on the market that works super well. Can't think of the name, but we used it a lot in melons and cukes in Honduras.
Are you running soil samples? Love to see what you are farming in. Looks like some clay. With all the grass around, I would say a fairly washed out clay at that. If you can get your calciums up, you will be surprised at how much resistance you will get.
Alternate some bacillus subtilus in there as well.
Try the manure top dressings and then mulch if you can, with anything you can....
Appalachia mountains....
How funny. I grew up in the same mountains in northern NJ. Bears, deer, turkeys, bobcats.... the whole nine yards. Grew up truck farming into NYC.
All these things you are talking about are preventatives. You don't ever want to see any fungus. If you do, you already lost it. Horsetail for me is a great silica source and makes my avocado more resistant to anthracnose. We alter copper and horsetail. What I will also say is that if you can work with fish instead of synthetic nutrients, you will have much less of a problem to begin with.
There is a commercial tea tree product on the market that works super well. Can't think of the name, but we used it a lot in melons and cukes in Honduras.
Are you running soil samples? Love to see what you are farming in. Looks like some clay. With all the grass around, I would say a fairly washed out clay at that. If you can get your calciums up, you will be surprised at how much resistance you will get.
Alternate some bacillus subtilus in there as well.
Try the manure top dressings and then mulch if you can, with anything you can....
balsamfirgreen
Member
Never use ANY sythetic nutrients... using a compost/peat/perlite soil blend made on a micro-commercial level locally. It is backfilled into holes dug out of a mostly clay area. Mulch generously with seedless straw ~ 3-4"
Plan to begin colonizing plant surfaces with mycostop & activonate as flowering season draws closer, can anyone give any advice about the use/effectiveness of these? can they be used together, since they are almost the same thing? any info appreciated there isn't a lot out there except the claims of the makers.
Plan to begin colonizing plant surfaces with mycostop & activonate as flowering season draws closer, can anyone give any advice about the use/effectiveness of these? can they be used together, since they are almost the same thing? any info appreciated there isn't a lot out there except the claims of the makers.
Just got done listening to one of Kempfs' recordings. He relates all mildews, both powdery and downy to a manganese deficiency..... thought that was pretty interesting.
Will manure top dressings give me needed calcium? I need to topdress for flowering anyway.
Yeah, it's clay. What do you mean by "washed out clay"?
I may still have some horsetail. I'm gonna get on the tea tree oil spray though. I have some pure oil to make the spray.
Why are synthetic nutes a problem regarding disease? Jack's is the only brand I use, primarily because you don't have the same type of salt buildup as you do with other synthetic ferts. It's the only non-natural product I use for growing - all my sprays are 100% natural.
I've heard this before. What can we water in that has manganese? I actually think that various rock dusts do. That might be why I put basalt dust in my holes, but I can get pretty stoned and forget why I choose certain amendments over others lol.
The more it rains, the more calcium you lose in proportion to other elements. I ran clay soil from North Jersey at Spectrum in Ohio. That clay had a CEC of 5. My poorest sands in Peru have a CEC of 14.
One expects a higher CEC (K, Mg, Ca, Na and H) in a clay than a sand. Thus the term, washed out clays.
Manure has K and lots of it. Get yourself some good high Ca lime with no magnesium and some gypsum if you can find it. And if you aren't using calcium nitrate, start.
Plants have a hard time picking up Ca, especially if one waters too much, which tends to quite the norm for guys that water while they are stoned... LMAO It is the norm in most agriculture, just bustin...
I imagine the synthetic Nitrogen is so much stonger than organic nitrogen that the plant grows faster than it can take up Calcium. As well, organic nitrogen is a different form, amino acids, amoniacal (Sp??) etc...
All the grape growers I know have mildew problems, my never do. I only use fish aminos, worm castings and small quanties of fresh manure for N.
I would find a source of Mn chelate, Albion, Baicor or that Biomin product.... and I would be applying manganese sulfate on the soil per a good soil analysis. Anything but is roulette at a casino.
One expects a higher CEC (K, Mg, Ca, Na and H) in a clay than a sand. Thus the term, washed out clays.
Manure has K and lots of it. Get yourself some good high Ca lime with no magnesium and some gypsum if you can find it. And if you aren't using calcium nitrate, start.
Plants have a hard time picking up Ca, especially if one waters too much, which tends to quite the norm for guys that water while they are stoned... LMAO It is the norm in most agriculture, just bustin...
I imagine the synthetic Nitrogen is so much stonger than organic nitrogen that the plant grows faster than it can take up Calcium. As well, organic nitrogen is a different form, amino acids, amoniacal (Sp??) etc...
All the grape growers I know have mildew problems, my never do. I only use fish aminos, worm castings and small quanties of fresh manure for N.
I would find a source of Mn chelate, Albion, Baicor or that Biomin product.... and I would be applying manganese sulfate on the soil per a good soil analysis. Anything but is roulette at a casino.
Milk for mildew
Milk for mildew
https://www.growveg.com/guides/using-milk-to-prevent-powdery-mildew/
Remember calcium(s). Calcium lactate!
Milk for mildew
https://www.growveg.com/guides/using-milk-to-prevent-powdery-mildew/
Remember calcium(s). Calcium lactate!
fat free milk is the best option for that btw, just adding to what slownickel said.
The holes all have some pulverized lime mixed in from last year. Should I water a little more in?
Gypsum I put in this year so I should be good on that.
Manure is on my shopping list. Any kind work?
What's a good source of calcium nitrate?
I'll look into getting some manganese sulfate. I'll have to check, but the basalt rock dust I use just might have some manganese in it.
Keep in mind I'm a guerrilla; what I mean by that is anything fish, blood, or bone is a major no-no. Bears and other diggers roam through my neck of the woods all the time. Shit, it's their neck of the woods.
As far as fungicides go, I'm just going to spray every week rotating greencure, tea tree oil, and milk. Keep up watering in insect frass (on top of the frass I mixed into the soil before planting). I'm hoping that'll see me through.
alotawatah
Member
Slow nickel, thanks, rotating potassium bicarb, acv and raw goat milk, also some oils, also some rosemary and sesame oil and doc bronners. After a good clean out so the light can get into the middle, it seems to be clearing up. 4 mil home depot plastic coming up.
alotawatah
Member
.
alotawatah
Member
Dusky,
Read this article well regarding calcium uptake from NC state. Pay close attention to the last sentence in the calcium discussion on page 3.
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/floriculture/Florex/BP ID Nut Def.pdf
This was something that I have never read nor heard of, yet makes so much sense now that I read it over and over. I don't remember who posted it here, but for me, it was one of those revelation moments. It also explains some things that hit home for me.
I have two farms, one has micro sprinklers for every tree. The other receives water by gravity irrigation, many times only once ever 15 days. We went one time nearly 40 days without water.
Where do you think I have the best looking trees? With the microsprinklers, guaging scientifically every day the exact amount of water to apply or where we suffer at the control of the water that shows up in our irrigation canal, where water arrives if we are lucky every 15 days?
To get to the chase, the growth rate on the gravity irrigated area is far superior to the micro sprinklers.
And why would this be? I started digging in the literature yesterday to find out.
What I quickly realized is that the exudates from the root tips are one of two things, sugars and or amino acids. In many plants amino acids far outweigh the sugars. It is known that only the root tips can pick up calcium, vs potassium etc... which can actually penetrate and be picked up by osmosis.
If the calcium uptake is primarily dependent on root exudates of amino acids, carbonic acid, what happens if the area is wet? DILUTION!!!! This is why everyone that over irrigates has a big calcium problem! Much more that we could possible believe (or want to believe for some).
Read this article well regarding calcium uptake from NC state. Pay close attention to the last sentence in the calcium discussion on page 3.
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/floriculture/Florex/BP ID Nut Def.pdf
This was something that I have never read nor heard of, yet makes so much sense now that I read it over and over. I don't remember who posted it here, but for me, it was one of those revelation moments. It also explains some things that hit home for me.
I have two farms, one has micro sprinklers for every tree. The other receives water by gravity irrigation, many times only once ever 15 days. We went one time nearly 40 days without water.
Where do you think I have the best looking trees? With the microsprinklers, guaging scientifically every day the exact amount of water to apply or where we suffer at the control of the water that shows up in our irrigation canal, where water arrives if we are lucky every 15 days?
To get to the chase, the growth rate on the gravity irrigated area is far superior to the micro sprinklers.
And why would this be? I started digging in the literature yesterday to find out.
What I quickly realized is that the exudates from the root tips are one of two things, sugars and or amino acids. In many plants amino acids far outweigh the sugars. It is known that only the root tips can pick up calcium, vs potassium etc... which can actually penetrate and be picked up by osmosis.
If the calcium uptake is primarily dependent on root exudates of amino acids, carbonic acid, what happens if the area is wet? DILUTION!!!! This is why everyone that over irrigates has a big calcium problem! Much more that we could possible believe (or want to believe for some).
That link is broken (for me anyway), just gives an error.
After looking, the Basalt Rock Dust I use has Manganese and Calcium in it. Here is the "typical geochemical analysis":
SiO2 49.3%
Al2O3 13.3%
Fe2O3 13.8%
MnO 0.2%
MgO 5.8%
CaO 9.2%
Na2O 3.14%
K2O 0.97%
TiO2 0.97%
P2O5 0.15%
Look good? Between that and gypsum do you think I have enough calcium?
That level of iron is absurd! That product is pure aluminum and iron. Not good.
Realize you can see results from bad products from the initial use, but afterwards, you can easily get toxicities.
The iron/manganese relationship is absurd in favor of iron with this material.
Your response to manganese will be dramatic. Your susceptibility to problems is going to be huge.
Realize you can see results from bad products from the initial use, but afterwards, you can easily get toxicities.
The iron/manganese relationship is absurd in favor of iron with this material.
Your response to manganese will be dramatic. Your susceptibility to problems is going to be huge.
And that little bit of calcium is more than neutralized for that huge amount of iron and aluminum.
...well fuck.
