A little help from some friends?

[pumpkin2006]

I'm designing a room for a buddy that wants to go big. He'll be moving into a place in about a month or so.

Plan of attack:
20 recirculating DWC buckets growing trees in these buckets, for flowering

Each set set of 10 buckets will be in a layout of Krusty's design:

It will be flip flopping 4 1000w MH ballasts and 10 600w HPS ballasts.

Will be running a 10" inline with carbon filter recirculating (for smell).

Both rooms will be made out of a 24'W x 16'L, 2 car garage. Each "room will be 12'W x 16'L.

In a separate 12'x12' bedroom, he will veg out 30 plants and select the best 20 in normal, black, 5 gallon buckets, in a recirculating DWC system. From clone - veg will be 2 months. They will be under another 4k in lights, probably, haven't really figured out those logistics yet. As soon as they start flowering, the next run is started vegging. Only downside is start up takes 2 months.

So the real question at hand is: The only way I know how to cool the 10k in lights in each of the flowering rooms is a 4 ton (48000 btu) A/C unit; its not really a problem, but I'm trying to be creative and affordable. So! Anybody got any suggestions on how to keep the room/s cool without a giant A/C unit. Mind you he will be running co2 burners set to 1500 at all times.

Also, if using the A/C unit, how to flip flop the feed of cold air into the rooms? Is there a manifold for ducting or something like that? Hopefully an hvac guy can help me out here.

Thanks

 

[ThingFish]

Mabey you could remove some of that heat with some diy cooltubes?

 

[Guest]

fucking link wont work....you need a damper..
http://.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damper_(architecture)

 

[Guest]

http://www.acmelec.com/products/Motorized-Air-Damper.html

 

[Maj.PotHead]

hopefully your friend has experince with large grows because this grow is just frickn huge 10k on flip flop. and the a/c costs 3 ton 13 sear will run ya approx 3,000$ installed is your bro gonna live in this house ???. if not he's askn to get his bag whacked by LEO

 

[pumpkin2006]

hopefully your friend has experince with large grows because this grow is just frickn huge 10k on flip flop. and the a/c costs 3 ton 13 sear will run ya approx 3,000$ installed is your bro gonna live in this house ???. if not he's askn to get his bag whacked by LEO

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. I appreciate your concern, but it's someone else's, not yours. I have a lot experience and understand of most aspects of growing, he is not being misinformed and we have had lengthy discussions as to how realistic this is. Also all of the security and potential problems that could arise have been discussed. Actually the beauty of this whole system is that its fully medically legal with plant count. The only organization that can give him trouble would be federal.

So, just a note for anyone else wanting to make comments about the legality or concerns or comments about the size of this grow; please hold them to yourselves. I'm quite aware of them and would rather discuss the topic at hand.

Thank you

 

[pumpkin2006]

Mabey you could remove some of that heat with some diy cooltubes?

I've thought about this... problem really with cool tubes (and he would probably just buy them) is that these lights are hanging vertically, so every light would need to make a rough 90 degree turn, which in turn, would reduce the flow by 40%. So you could imagine starting with a 12" 2000cfm blower and running it threw the 10 600's - after first light 1200cfm, second light 720, third 432, fourth 259.2, fifth 155, sixth 93, ect ect. Its a grim picture after a while. I could hook up a bunch of fans to 2 each, but the costs would be staggering and I might as well just get an A/C unit that can cool them without all of the hassle of cool tubes.

So again I ask, any creative ways of cooling? Maybe another option to commercial cooling? I've seen these water based industrial units, anybody got a link?

 

[Guest]

http://www.1-hydroponics.co.uk/grow-lights/water-cooled-400w.htm

 

[sleepyrz]

too bad he doesnt live on a lake

he could use a water cooler and vent the heat into the lake

 

[pumpkin2006]

http://www.1-hydroponics.co.uk/grow-lights/water-cooled-400w.htm

Yup, they're being sold by a Dallas based Hydroponic company for $400 a setup. Kinda pricey... maybe though. The 4 ton A/C unit I'm looking at has a stealth compressor that reduces the sound by 3/4... it'll be $5100 without tax and shipping, so really around $6000.

The water cooled hoods would be a total of $5600 and then need 8 1/2 hp water coolers, would be around $9600. I guess the real question is, do these thing work and would there costs pay off over time? Each chiller would be around 500w, so around 4000w vs 7200w.

Probably wouldn't work. Thanks though

 

[Haps]

You seem to look to solve problems by throwing money at them, I have never looked for solutions that way. With vertical K's, the main issue is to move air around the bulb and away from the flora. This can be done with strong stationary fans directly underneath, moves the heat away from the flowers by creating an air column. Then you just have to keep it moving above the grow, and away. I can see how co2 could complicate this. I do not know how much that can be of use to you, but it worked well for me with 3K's mounted on a 30 inch board, simulating the intensity of sunlight, best I could. If you duct the ac to come out under the fans, the cool air could eliminate the heat at the source as it removes it in the air column. I am using the exhaust from one room to cool some electrical gear in a closet this way.
H

 

[pumpkin2006]

You seem to look to solve problems by throwing money at them, I have never looked for solutions that way. With vertical K's, the main issue is to move air around the bulb and away from the flora. This can be done with strong stationary fans directly underneath, moves the heat away from the flowers by creating an air column. Then you just have to keep it moving above the grow, and away. I can see how co2 could complicate this. I do not know how much that can be of use to you, but it worked well for me with 3K's mounted on a 30 inch board, simulating the intensity of sunlight, best I could. If you duct the ac to come out under the fans, the cool air could eliminate the heat at the source as it removes it in the air column. I am using the exhaust from one room to cool some electrical gear in a closet this way.
H

Hi, Haps

Unfortunately, with a grow this size, money has to be thrown at things. I mostly started this thread, so that people, like you, could criticize my method and plan; hopefully resulting in an all around more efficient grow op.

I agree with spot cooling on the lights, but then the question comes, well where does that energy go to? Of course I could ventilate all the heat, thats not my desire... as the goal is large yields and co2 is a significant factor behind lighting and environment.

I was thinking about converting my 2000cfm evaporative cooler, by taking out the cardboard that the water runs down, and its also the intake of air, and running copper pipping using turn arounds to a res with my 1/4hp water chiller. I would only need a res of about 10 gallons and my water chiller would drop the temps of that water by about 20+ degrees F. So about 50 degree copper pipes being snaked across the intake of a 2000cfm blower. Mind you this would just an experiment to see how effective it would cool my own grow. I could of course scale it to a larger system. Just an idea. Criticize away, please.

 

[pumpkin2006]

too bad he doesnt live on a lake

he could use a water cooler and vent the heat into the lake

sleeprz, how are you bud? I was worried about ya.. haven't seen you around for many a moon now.

Great minds think a-like. Look at the last paragraph of the post above this one. Its not a lake, but its a water chilled res....

Question, where do you find the commercial units that you run water threw pipes to cool? I've been looking all day and don't know the exact name for them, so... can't find them. Anyone wanna help a brother out?

 

[Haps]

Hey P, I am here to learn, not criticize. I just look to simple solutions, and they often work. I think you are looking for a heat pump of some type, there are several kinds. Have fun figuring this out, it probably does call for a money solution.
H

 

[pumpkin2006]

Hey P, I am here to learn, not criticize. I just look to simple solutions, and they often work. I think you are looking for a heat pump of some type, there are several kinds. Have fun figuring this out, it probably does call for a money solution.
H

I hope that I didn't give the impression that I disliked your comments; criticize has no negative connotation for myself. Through critics, I too, in turn learn.

I have found the heat pumps. But there are units that have very large circulating fans that run water threw them (not evaporative cooler) and transfer that thermal energy in the water that leaves the system. In theory, constructing my own would be quite simple. Simple soldering with some copper pipe, running it a snake over some fans. I just want to find out if the time spent on my own unit it worth the savings of purchasing one. Also, I want to see how they are built and how many BTU's they are able to transfer.

 

[pumpkin2006]

This is exactly what I'm looking for. I haven't found any online, except a used one that was $300 and considering $300 vs $5100... well you see.

Anybody know where to get one?

 

[Johnny Rotten]

The easiest way to do this would be with fans blowing over the bulbs. Your a/c if properly sized will taker away all of the heat.

Another way which would be extremely difficult and costly would be to air cool all of your bulbs with a plenum at the floor and ceiling with individual six inch ducts with cool tubes connecting the plenums. The bottom plenum would draw in fresh air and the top would have a squirrel cage blower exhausting the air. This wouldn't be so bad if you just had the 1000w running through the center, but with all those 600's it would be a mess. The flip flop room makes it a little more complicated, but doable.

Your best bet is damper controlled a/c with plenty of balls and lots of fans in your room to avoid hotspots. You really shouldn't be trying to reinvent the wheel here, especially since it's your buddies room and there are med patients relying on him. I hope you have a hvac buddy to hook it up.....dampers and controllers can be tricky.

p.s. the water cooled a/c's are called water to air systems. You would run it in heat mode and it will cool your water while exhausting heat by air.

 

[Johnny Rotten]

your pic is half of a refrigeration unit used for coolers. not really applicable here.

 

[pumpkin2006]

your pic is half of a refrigeration unit used for coolers. not really applicable here.

Actually, they use them quite often in Canada, for growing. Swamp chiller This website is highly overpriced, on everything. Most of the time is 1/3 of the price or less. In conjunction with a recirculating reservoir and the proper sized water chiller, it would use less power then an A/C unit.

Your comment about "hot spots" above, doesn't matter. He will be using C3 film, it completely stops FLIR.

The spot cooling on the bulbs, is important, but doesn't solve any of the actual heating problems at hand; it simply moves it away from the plant itself.

 

[pumpkin2006]

You really shouldn't be trying to reinvent the wheel here, especially since it's your buddies room and there are med patients relying on him. I hope you have a hvac buddy to hook it up.....dampers and controllers can be tricky.

Not to be cocky or some arrogant prick, but I'm quite confident in my abilities to implement such devices. I'm not a master of one thing, except for knowing a little about everything. + I do have an HVAC buddy that can describe the necessary steps... not that he would see the grow or know why I would need it. Remember the cardinal rule people!!!

BTW, I appreciate everyones comments and suggestions. Please continue, if you see any flaws or holes in the plan, please point them out; except for comments about the size and security (security is ok, if talking about equipment and setup).

Thanks