A Complete Guide to Topping, Training and Pruning

[Sgt.Stedenko]

Hey Kodiak,

It's good to see you keeping this thread going. It's a must read for any newb and a great refresher for the seasoned growers.

I've used every method you outlined except the SOG. I just never wanted to get into high plant counts.

I primarily rely on topping and a scrog screen to get my babes where I want them, but this time while topping the 4th nodes of some sour cindys, I missed and actually did a perfect FIM with my fingernail on one of the plants. The benefit of 4 growth tips on the FIM'd plant versus 2 tips on the topped plants really sparked my interest in that technique. After the new growth established itself and grew some more nodes, I tried to FIM the new tips for some shrubbery.

I've still got a lot to learn on that technique. Most of my FIM'd tops from the second round only grew three tips (fuck I missed). Some only grew two (fuck I really missed).

I think FIMing is all about timing. It helps to catch the growth tips at the right time in their development. If the new growth has developed too much, FIMing is more difficult, imo.

Cheers

 

[Kodiak]

Hey Stedenko, thanks for stopping by.

Yeah, the downside of a SOG grow is the high number of plants needed but it's easier to pull more weight from a bunch of smaller plants than from a few full sized ones. I'd say that you can reach similar weight with both methods but the bigger plants need a lot more training.

Topping, LSTing & Scrogging is a winning hand in my book. The combination has never failed me. FIM topping is cool when it works but you can get similar results by topping a second time and LSTing until you have an even canopy.

You might be right about the timing. Sometimes when you FIM top when the shoot is already established, it just keeps on growing. Timing might be just as important as how much of the shoot you should leave intact. It's a very fine line it seems.

Let us know if you discover something new about FIMing. I'll add it to the guide if you do.

Best of luck with your project

 

[High Country]

Yes a SOG means high plant numbers...mother plants and a rock solid cloning method.

But it's a very quick turn around time...specially if the clones go straight on to 12/12...no veg time....that's what I do.

VEG TIME IS A WASTE OF TIME....in a true SOG....4 per sq/ft.

 

[Kodiak]

Yeah

Longer veg times are only necessary when you intend to shape the plants before you flower them or when you are growing from seed. Clones are ready to flower as soon as they root, which cuts down on the total time when you are going for many smaller plants.

I do seed grows in SOG because it allows for larger populations of individual females, which means more seeds from a number of different seed lines. Gives me more to chose from further down the line.

 

[lbezphil2005]

Yeah

Longer veg times are only necessary when you intend to shape the plants before you flower them or when you are growing from seed. Clones are ready to flower as soon as they root, which cuts down on the total time when you are going for many smaller plants.

I do seed grows in SOG because it allows for larger populations of individual females, which means more seeds from a number of different seed lines. Gives me more to chose from further down the line.

Very good, Kodiak! I would love to hear more people preserving the "diversity" like you are, I bet you come up with some dank herb every year, bro!

 

[Kodiak]

Yeah, the plants seem to get better with every new generation. I have a very strict screening process when I select the parents. Any and all hermies have to go, even if it's just a single nanner. Trichome formation, potency, yield, color and scent are naturally important things to look for but so are genetic stability and stress tolerance. Other things to look for are good plant structure, high calyx to leaf ratio and tight buds. I always test the plants outdoors in order to make sure that they are strong enough to take a beating. That's where resistance to mold also comes into play.

It's fairly easy to select the females but the good males are a bit more difficult to spot. The best males usually resemble female plants. Things like resin content and scent carry over to the female offspring. They are usually slightly smaller in size than the "macho males" but they are better suited for drug type strains. I also look for males with tight clusters of pollen sacks because it seems to directly affect the density of the flowers in the female offspring.

I have been very lucky with the males because I've found resin covered males to father every seed line that I'm working on right now.

Check this out

I also like to explore mutant seed lines because they can sometimes give rise to unexpected traits that work in your favor.

DJ Short has written a great article on selective breeding that is worth checking out if you plan on making some seeds. I don't have the link right now but I'm sure that it's posted somewhere on this forum.

 

[Maj.Cottonmouth]

great thread kodiak! i would call it a "must read".

after going from a horizontal grow to vertical i have to re-learn how to get the girls going right in veg. lollipoping and pinching a top now and then no longer applies to what i am doing. i know i have to reset the learning curve, and each plant is different, so i am not asking for a wave of your magic wand, but ........... any input?

I am using 2"x4" square fencing in my vertical grow and it is working out great so far, this is my first round using it. I veg horizontally without any training under a T5 bank.

 

[Kodiak]

Sweet setup

 

[lbezphil2005]

That is a hella cool vertical, damn!! What kind of yields are you getting with that, bro!?

 

[Justinsane]

Topping when direct 12/12?

Topping when direct 12/12?

Hi and thanks for this great guide bro.

I have 7 mango haze under a 600w lamp direct into 12/12, on day 8 now and i was wondering on your opinion on topping a plant when going direct 12/12.


Cheers Justinsane

 

[Kodiak]

Hi Justinsane

It's difficult to give advice without seeing the plants but I can give you some things to consider. Generally I wouldn't top the plants in flowering but some sativa dominant plants don't seem to mind it all that much and perform very well regardless. It all boils down to increasing node frequency as well as bud density and thereby yields. The 600w light will help with bud density but you might have to train the plants in order to keep them manageable. Ideally, you want an even canopy so that you can get the light as close as possible. Different methods apply to different kinds of plants.

Mango Haze is mostly sativa and can probably grow quite tall. If it's anything like the sativa phenos of Super Silver Haze or Neville's Haze, you might have trouble keeping it in check later on without some form of training. Some of the plants from Mr.Nice are real monsters that grow both bushy and tall. Plants like that need a lot of work indoors. I have topped sativa dominant plants throughout flowering but only when they display vigorous growth. Sometimes you don't have a choice even with training in veg. Other plants just don't like it and get stunted but most plants will cope in one way or another. The only question is how long it will take them to finish properly.

It all depends on what kind of plant you have. If it's stretchy you might want to try to make it more compact in order to increase node frequency. I don't think that it is too late for you to top them because you might be looking at 12+ weeks of flowering either way. Topping them will probably just slow them down by a week or two. You just have to make up for the lost time on the back end. In a way, sativa plants are better suited for 12/12 training because they come from equatorial regions of the world where the day is as long as the night most of the time. In other words, they are used to growing vegetatively under 12/12. Some sativa plants never seem to stop growing. These plants will respond well to topping and training.

If the plants respond well to topping, you might want to consider some LSTing as well in order to make the most of it. You might even have to continue training them throughout the grow for good results. In that case you might want to put in a scrog and use it to train the plants. You could also consider cutting the light schedule back to 11/13 for a few weeks in order to encourage more vegetative growth. Also keep in mind that pot size will determine the final size of the plants. They only grow as large as their roots will allow.

I would probably top and train the plants but I recommend that you check out some Mango Haze grows before you make up your mind. Better yet, ask the friend who gave you the clones what kind of plant you dealing with. If you are growing from seed, you might be looking at a number of different plants. Then you just have to do your best to provide all of them with what they need.

 

[oldog]

Kodiak- I just downloaded your excellent pdf- Thanks for all the work.
There is no ID on it at all - Months from now the downloader wont remember
who wrote it. Maybe just some credit line like ' By 'Kodiak' - from a post on ICMag '
and the date.
Cheers

 

[Kodiak]

Thanks oldog, I'm glad that you liked the guide.

The pdf version needs to be updated, so I'll add the ID tag and a link to the thread at the time. The guide is constantly evolving, so check the online version for the latest update.

Enjoy

 

[iBlaze]

Good in depth thread/guide. Made it a lot easier on me considering I couldn't even find a proper video guide. 10/10. I'm a new grower so I appreciate your expertise.

 

[beasterblunts]

hey guys, quick question. a buddy of mine has about ten plants near ready for harvest, some that are just about ready, and some others ranging to about two more weeks or so until done. He decided to cut some of the top kolas that looked ready to harvest off of the plants, but left the remainder of the undergrowth to continue under 12/12 for a few more days/up to two weeks, at his discretion. my question is how this will affect his yield and results. I was under the impression it is seen as a no-no to top during flowering, especially so late in, but my friend argued that the undergrowth didnt look as ready as the top, and he wanted to clear up some extra space in his tent by reducing the bulk of some plants. What do you guys think will happen? will they get stunted badly? will the remaining buds fatten up due to more nutrients going towards them now? will they die quickly? Any input is appreciated, thanks! (ps- tried searching to find more info on other people doing this, had little luck)

 

[High Country]

hey guys, quick question. a buddy of mine has about ten plants near ready for harvest, some that are just about ready, and some others ranging to about two more weeks or so until done. He decided to cut some of the top kolas that looked ready to harvest off of the plants, but left the remainder of the undergrowth to continue under 12/12 for a few more days/up to two weeks, at his discretion. my question is how this will affect his yield and results. I was under the impression it is seen as a no-no to top during flowering, especially so late in, but my friend argued that the undergrowth didnt look as ready as the top, and he wanted to clear up some extra space in his tent by reducing the bulk of some plants. What do you guys think will happen? will they get stunted badly? will the remaining buds fatten up due to more nutrients going towards them now? will they die quickly? Any input is appreciated, thanks! (ps- tried searching to find more info on other people doing this, had little luck)

They will be just fine.

 

[Kodiak]

Thanks iBlaze, I'm glad that you found the guide useful.

hey guys, quick question. a buddy of mine has about ten plants near ready for harvest, some that are just about ready, and some others ranging to about two more weeks or so until done. He decided to cut some of the top kolas that looked ready to harvest off of the plants, but left the remainder of the undergrowth to continue under 12/12 for a few more days/up to two weeks, at his discretion. my question is how this will affect his yield and results. I was under the impression it is seen as a no-no to top during flowering, especially so late in, but my friend argued that the undergrowth didnt look as ready as the top, and he wanted to clear up some extra space in his tent by reducing the bulk of some plants. What do you guys think will happen? will they get stunted badly? will the remaining buds fatten up due to more nutrients going towards them now? will they die quickly? Any input is appreciated, thanks! (ps- tried searching to find more info on other people doing this, had little luck)

Yeah, High Country is right. Removing the main colas enables the lower buds to grow larger.

Harvesting the top half won't kill the plants but it's impossible to say how they will respond to the treatment. Some plants get stunted while others just keep on budding. It will probably take a week before he sees any difference. Growth hormones might help to speed things up a bit.

It's probably best to cut back on nutes for a while until the lower buds start putting on more weight.

Given enough time, the lower half of the plant will bulk up but that requires several additional weeks of flowering.

He could also try revegging the plants when the second batch of bud has been harvested. There are no guarantees that it will work but the plants usually produce more bud the second time around.

 

[Avinash.miles]

true canna science at its best! thanks kodiak, this is what it should be, i really found the monster cropping section interesting and i may try that out...

 

[Kodiak]

No problem, I'm glad you liked it.

Good luck with the monster cropping

 

[windrunner1]

Very good illustrations and documentation. We newbies appreciate the time you took to explain this subject. Thanks.