WaittillIdie
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A 20-Year Study on Marijuana Use Yields 5 Surprising Finds
- Thread starter RetroGrow
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Beta Test Team
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How can you make that claim when Cannabis isn't physically addictive? I smoke every day, and I am not dependent upon Cannabis nor addicted, but it is a habit that I rather enjoy (which is why I do it everyday), as well as being my pain medicine.
Basically my point is it's not black and white.
mr.brunch summed it up well:
when I AM smoking, it is every day/all day, but I never have a problem when I lay off for a few days...or months. like I said, some people are dependence prone, or as my grandfather would have said, "weak"... if smoking pot caused lung cancer, I suspect the graveyards would be filling up quick; but then, we aren't seeing that, are we? if you have any studies showing that pot smoke causes lung cancer (NOT put out by reefer madness advocates or the federal govt) I'd like to see them posted up here. I have never run across anything like that.
WaittillIdie
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hi Beta, if you read the thread i said that cannabis is psychologically addictive. i understand that my statement was controvertial and likely to ruffle a few feathers, but i think that anyone who has consumed cannabis every day for a long time without taking a break should be asking themselves if they are an addict.
and as a objective scientist type with such a high IQ, im sure you will already know that uncomfortable truths about oneself are often the hardest to acknowledge, and that most addicts take a long time to admit it to themselves
indeed that admittance is widely thought as the first step towards recovery.
please read what ive said in the thread about addiction before responding.
i agree that Mr.brunch's discription of dependence will be a lot more palatable to most people but unfortunately the dictionary does not agree with him:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]de·pen·dence noun \di-ˈpen-dən(t)s\
: the state of needing something or someone else for support, help, etc.
: the state of being addicted to alcohol or a drug [/FONT]
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Beta Test Team
Member
To be honest I didn't read any of your other posts in this thread, but the post I quoted didn't suggest you didn't mean physical addiction (i.e. dependence). Now you have clarified what you wrote it makes more sense, however, it's still not black and white. Sure, people can become dependent upon Cannabis (often mis-termed as addiction), but it's only a small percentage of users that may become so (and it's not about Cannabis, it's more about that person).
A habit is not a dependence, and a dependence is not an addiction. Dictionary's are normally bad places to find the clinical definition of a term (they too often are wrong). I also don't necessarily agree with the concept of "physiological dependence," but I'm not knowledgeable in this field of science at all, so I won't make any claims I can't support.
Then also there's the concept of "drug abuse," which is different than "drug dependence" and "drug addiction." It's my possibly flawed understanding that "dependence" is the preferred term depending upon the symptoms, according to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (http://www.psychiatry.org/practice/dsm).
Academic sourced info:
http://www.whocancerpain.wisc.edu/?q=node/245
http://www.wright.edu/rsp/Security/Eap/Alcohol.htm
http://www.sxu.edu/student-life/counseling/aodp/self/subabuse.asp
https://www.utexas.edu/research/asrec/myths.html
A habit is not a dependence, and a dependence is not an addiction. Dictionary's are normally bad places to find the clinical definition of a term (they too often are wrong). I also don't necessarily agree with the concept of "physiological dependence," but I'm not knowledgeable in this field of science at all, so I won't make any claims I can't support.
Then also there's the concept of "drug abuse," which is different than "drug dependence" and "drug addiction." It's my possibly flawed understanding that "dependence" is the preferred term depending upon the symptoms, according to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (http://www.psychiatry.org/practice/dsm).
Academic sourced info:
http://www.whocancerpain.wisc.edu/?q=node/245
http://www.wright.edu/rsp/Security/Eap/Alcohol.htm
http://www.sxu.edu/student-life/counseling/aodp/self/subabuse.asp
https://www.utexas.edu/research/asrec/myths.html
Actually what your saying is.... would make sense if you were stoned lol
but actually if you look at who spends the most money on research and development you prob be shocked to find out pharmaceutical companies have nothing to lose if you think about it if anything they have lots to gain by using MJ in there products who else would you think that could do a study better you and your stoner friends ??? lol besides R & D other then Samsung, and computer companies
to give you a idea pharm companies like MERCK , Johnson, Roche etc combined spend over 40 billion dollars a year
but yet people scream murder when there are side effects from a drug Sue sue sue lol
on other note show me a genius that smokes pot regularly ? they may have tried it but pretty sure the richest people in the world dont smoke weed and why you see most movies cheech n chong and others displaying stupid people haha
pharmaceutical companies could of crushed the mj laws if they wanted to
But the large amount of cash Big Pharma bestows on government representatives and regulatory bodies is small when compared with the billions it spends each year on direct-to-consumer advertising.
Could you imagine if the pharm companies gave 20 - 40 billion to government reps to stop the MJ movement ??? MJ would be passed today ??? not likely my friend money talks and thats the bottom line
Habit
Addiction
Definition
An act performed by a person that is built by repetition to the point where the person is not aware they do it
An extreme form of habit, but the person has no control over the act. It becomes a need of the body
Control
A person has complete control over the habit
The addiction has control over the person
Types
Positive, Negative
Negative
Mental status
Mental ability, memory, mental functions are normal
Mental ability is hay wired, person loses control over memory, actions
Modification
Can be modified or changed
Can be changed, however takes time, patience and determination
Examples
Biting nails, tapping feet, tugging earlobes, putting on t-shirt before pants
Drug, alcohol, sex, exercise, gaming
Addiction
Definition
An act performed by a person that is built by repetition to the point where the person is not aware they do it
An extreme form of habit, but the person has no control over the act. It becomes a need of the body
Control
A person has complete control over the habit
The addiction has control over the person
Types
Positive, Negative
Negative
Mental status
Mental ability, memory, mental functions are normal
Mental ability is hay wired, person loses control over memory, actions
Modification
Can be modified or changed
Can be changed, however takes time, patience and determination
Examples
Biting nails, tapping feet, tugging earlobes, putting on t-shirt before pants
Drug, alcohol, sex, exercise, gaming
wow, that was your response to me saying:
"[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]being addicted to something isnt necessarily that terrible - its how you live your life that matters. if you never get up off the couch and never do anything or achieve anything because of your addiction then that is bad.[/FONT]"
do you even read what people have said properly before you respond? anyway i can see i touched a nerve with you there and maybe thats why you are being so defensive
ive seen plenty of friends waste their youth sitting on the couch stoned, doing nothing other than going to going to the shop to get munchies now and again. we used to get high and go out to gigs or raves and they would still be sitting there in the same place when we got back.
cannabis can be used or abused, heavy regular use has its downsides, that is just a fact.
i think we are going round in circles here, i'm going to refer you to what jd said earlier because he was spot on.
and above is a good example of "barely lucid stream of consciousness crap"
here is another, this one is hilarious
ive wanted weed to be legalised for most of my life. if someone neutral towards legalisation came and read in this thread that cannabis users thought it was ok to drive when they are high, it would probably turn them against it, and who could blame them?
most of your arguments seem to centre around the fact that 'alcohol is worse', that is not a valid argument for saying something else is ok.. in fact its a lazy argument and not really relevant to the debate. its like saying armed robbery is ok because murder is worse!
and dismissing something you dont like the sound of as propaganda is also a lazy argument, especially as you dont seem to understand what propaganda actually is.
that takes the cake, wtf has karma got to do with this debate? we are talking about what people do to themselves ffs. the only thing that karma might be relevant to is the driving when stoned/high bit, and if you think its good karma to do that then you are beyond hope and help.ask yourself, if you had to jump infront of a car that was driving at the speed limit, would you want the driver to be straight, or stoned? dont bother answering it was a rhetorical question.
this is the last time i'm going to respond to you in this thread. hope you take some of it onboard. in future try reading back what you've written before posting and see if it makes sense first.
VG
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Group all addiction and dependence together under one heading if that makes you feel better- don't make it right.
Dictionary can say what it likes.... Let me remind you that the letter of the law states that all drugs are as dangerous as each other too. Again, all grouped together under one heading as ' dangerous drugs' yet we all know that's not the case.
Life ain't all black n white , and distinctions should be made.
At the risk of repeating myself, I have been smoking for 25 years,daily, BUT I can take breaks when needed, I don't take weed with me on holidays either, and if it was really addictive I wouldn't be able to do this.
But I suppose I am wrong, because the dictionary says so.
Dictionary can say what it likes.... Let me remind you that the letter of the law states that all drugs are as dangerous as each other too. Again, all grouped together under one heading as ' dangerous drugs' yet we all know that's not the case.
Life ain't all black n white , and distinctions should be made.
At the risk of repeating myself, I have been smoking for 25 years,daily, BUT I can take breaks when needed, I don't take weed with me on holidays either, and if it was really addictive I wouldn't be able to do this.
But I suppose I am wrong, because the dictionary says so.
hi mr brunch, i agree with you and beta that its not black and white, my statement about addiction was perhaps a little too sweeping and absolute... but on the whole i thinks its true in many cases, especially for people who smoke heavily for years without any self inflicted breaks.
cannabis is very benign as drugs go, but it can still be abused and it can still be harmful.
ive been smoking for about the same amount of time as you, i would class myself as dependent/addict, but luckily i am very good at moderating my use and keeping my tolerance down. i would see myself as a user not and abuser, and live a reasonably healthy and active life. it sounds like you do too. i usually take some on holiday with me when i go, but i dont often fly so its usually reasonably safe to do so and i go to some ridiculous lengths to hide it. i never found it easy to sleep and that is something that cannabis helps me to do.
VG
cannabis is very benign as drugs go, but it can still be abused and it can still be harmful.
ive been smoking for about the same amount of time as you, i would class myself as dependent/addict, but luckily i am very good at moderating my use and keeping my tolerance down. i would see myself as a user not and abuser, and live a reasonably healthy and active life. it sounds like you do too. i usually take some on holiday with me when i go, but i dont often fly so its usually reasonably safe to do so and i go to some ridiculous lengths to hide it. i never found it easy to sleep and that is something that cannabis helps me to do.
VG
i might as well face it i am addicted to growing
but here to some that do not believe
es. Over time, overstimulation of the endocannabinoid system by marijuana use can cause changes in the brain that lead to addiction, a condition in which a person cannot stop using a drug even though it interferes with many aspects of his or her life. It is estimated that 9 percent of people who use marijuana will become dependent on it.10,11 The number goes up to about 17 percent in those who start using young (in their teens) and to 25 to 50 percent among daily users.12,13 According to the 2013 NSDUH, marijuana accounted for 4.2 million of the estimated 6.9 million Americans dependent on or abusing illicit drugs.3
Marijuana addiction is linked to a mild withdrawal syndrome. Frequent marijuana users often report irritability, mood and sleep difficulties, decreased appetite, cravings, restlessness, and/or various forms of physical discomfort that peak within the first week after quitting and last up to 2 weeks.14,15
Rising Potency
Marijuana potency, as detected in confiscated samples, has steadily increased over the past few decades.2 In the early 1990s, the average THC content in confiscated cannabis samples was roughly 3.7 percent for marijuana and 7.5 percent for sinsemilla (a higher potency marijuana from specially tended female plants). In 2013, it was 9.6 percent for marijuana and 16 percent for sinsemilla.16 Also, newly popular methods of smoking or eating THC-rich hash oil extracted from the marijuana plant (a practice called “dabbing”) may deliver very high levels of THC to the user. The average marijuana extract contains over 50 percent THC, with some samples exceeding 80 percent. These trends raise concerns that the consequences of marijuana use could be worse than in the past, particularly among new users or in young people, whose brains are still developing (see “What are marijuana’s long-term effects on the brain?”).
Researchers do not yet know the full extent of the consequences when the body and brain (especially the developing brain) are exposed to high concentrations of THC or whether the recent increases in emergency department visits by people testing positive for marijuana are related to rising potency. The extent to which marijuana users adjust for increased potency by using less or by smoking it differently is also unknown. Recent studies suggest that experienced users may adjust the amount they smoke and how much they inhale based on the believed strength of the marijuana they are using, but are not able to fully compensate for variations in potency.17,18
but here to some that do not believe
es. Over time, overstimulation of the endocannabinoid system by marijuana use can cause changes in the brain that lead to addiction, a condition in which a person cannot stop using a drug even though it interferes with many aspects of his or her life. It is estimated that 9 percent of people who use marijuana will become dependent on it.10,11 The number goes up to about 17 percent in those who start using young (in their teens) and to 25 to 50 percent among daily users.12,13 According to the 2013 NSDUH, marijuana accounted for 4.2 million of the estimated 6.9 million Americans dependent on or abusing illicit drugs.3
Marijuana addiction is linked to a mild withdrawal syndrome. Frequent marijuana users often report irritability, mood and sleep difficulties, decreased appetite, cravings, restlessness, and/or various forms of physical discomfort that peak within the first week after quitting and last up to 2 weeks.14,15
Rising Potency
Marijuana potency, as detected in confiscated samples, has steadily increased over the past few decades.2 In the early 1990s, the average THC content in confiscated cannabis samples was roughly 3.7 percent for marijuana and 7.5 percent for sinsemilla (a higher potency marijuana from specially tended female plants). In 2013, it was 9.6 percent for marijuana and 16 percent for sinsemilla.16 Also, newly popular methods of smoking or eating THC-rich hash oil extracted from the marijuana plant (a practice called “dabbing”) may deliver very high levels of THC to the user. The average marijuana extract contains over 50 percent THC, with some samples exceeding 80 percent. These trends raise concerns that the consequences of marijuana use could be worse than in the past, particularly among new users or in young people, whose brains are still developing (see “What are marijuana’s long-term effects on the brain?”).
Researchers do not yet know the full extent of the consequences when the body and brain (especially the developing brain) are exposed to high concentrations of THC or whether the recent increases in emergency department visits by people testing positive for marijuana are related to rising potency. The extent to which marijuana users adjust for increased potency by using less or by smoking it differently is also unknown. Recent studies suggest that experienced users may adjust the amount they smoke and how much they inhale based on the believed strength of the marijuana they are using, but are not able to fully compensate for variations in potency.17,18
WaittillIdie
Member
dc
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"It's a diagnosis of exclusion so you have to rule out all other possibilities," Dr. Benno Hartung, an author of the study, told The Associated Press. Hartung and his colleagues performed numerous tests, including an autopsy, a toxicology exam, genetic tests, and a histological analysis of all organs to rule out other factors that might have contributed to the fatalities. In both cases, cannabis intoxication was the leading cause of cardiac arrhythmia, where both men either started breathing too fast or too slowly.
It is known that smoking marijuana could be lethal if used with other drugs, triggering heart conditions or causing cancer. The tar in joints contains a higher concentration of chemicals that are linked to lung cancer compared with tobacco tar. The American Lung Association says smoking pot deposits four times more tar in the lung than smoking the same amount of tobacco. Marijuana in high doses can also lead to temporary psychotic reactions such as hallucinations and paranoia, especially in younger people have who have a family history of schizophrenia.
In the study, the German researchers found the two healthy young men, aged 23 and 28, had enough tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, in their blood to believe they smoked pot within hours of their death. The two men did not have a history of heart problems or channelopathies — diseases that increase the risk of heart problems that affect ion channels. "We did every test we could," Hartung said about his efforts to unveil any possible underlying causes.
As a precaution, Hartung and his research team suggest people are high risk for heart disease should avoid the drug. Other medical experts, like Dr. David Nutt, chairman of Britain's Independent Scientific Committee on Drugs, who was not involved in the study, supports Hartung’s advisement. "People with vulnerable hearts should be informed of this risk with cannabis," he said, the AP reported.
Although the deaths of the healthy men confirmed cannabis triggered arrhythmias, it is not clear just exactly how this occurred. The researchers speculate there may be unknown channelopathies that could increase the risk of heart conditions triggered by the drug. Marijuana raises the heart rate by 20 to 100 percent shortly after smoking, says the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA), and there is a 4.8-fold increase in the risk of heart attack during the first hour after smoking the drug. This risk could potentially increase in individuals who are more vulnerable to heart complications.
In the UK, a 31-year-old woman, is known to become the first in Britain to die directly from cannabis poisoning after smoking marijuana just moments before going to sleep each night, the Daily Mail reported. The coroner recorded Gemma Moss died because of the moderate to heavy levels of THC in her blood. Her case highlights the potential harm cannabis can cause as it increases heart rate and blood pressure.
The toxicity of smoking marijuana has been undermined by the public with little awareness about its potential hazardous effects on cardiovascular health. In the U.S., about one in every four people die of heart disease each year, says the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, as it is the leading cause of death for Americans. Increasing awareness of marijuana’s effects on heart health may be a prevention tool to reduce the number of heart complications per year.
It is known that smoking marijuana could be lethal if used with other drugs, triggering heart conditions or causing cancer. The tar in joints contains a higher concentration of chemicals that are linked to lung cancer compared with tobacco tar. The American Lung Association says smoking pot deposits four times more tar in the lung than smoking the same amount of tobacco. Marijuana in high doses can also lead to temporary psychotic reactions such as hallucinations and paranoia, especially in younger people have who have a family history of schizophrenia.
In the study, the German researchers found the two healthy young men, aged 23 and 28, had enough tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, in their blood to believe they smoked pot within hours of their death. The two men did not have a history of heart problems or channelopathies — diseases that increase the risk of heart problems that affect ion channels. "We did every test we could," Hartung said about his efforts to unveil any possible underlying causes.
As a precaution, Hartung and his research team suggest people are high risk for heart disease should avoid the drug. Other medical experts, like Dr. David Nutt, chairman of Britain's Independent Scientific Committee on Drugs, who was not involved in the study, supports Hartung’s advisement. "People with vulnerable hearts should be informed of this risk with cannabis," he said, the AP reported.
Although the deaths of the healthy men confirmed cannabis triggered arrhythmias, it is not clear just exactly how this occurred. The researchers speculate there may be unknown channelopathies that could increase the risk of heart conditions triggered by the drug. Marijuana raises the heart rate by 20 to 100 percent shortly after smoking, says the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA), and there is a 4.8-fold increase in the risk of heart attack during the first hour after smoking the drug. This risk could potentially increase in individuals who are more vulnerable to heart complications.
In the UK, a 31-year-old woman, is known to become the first in Britain to die directly from cannabis poisoning after smoking marijuana just moments before going to sleep each night, the Daily Mail reported. The coroner recorded Gemma Moss died because of the moderate to heavy levels of THC in her blood. Her case highlights the potential harm cannabis can cause as it increases heart rate and blood pressure.
The toxicity of smoking marijuana has been undermined by the public with little awareness about its potential hazardous effects on cardiovascular health. In the U.S., about one in every four people die of heart disease each year, says the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, as it is the leading cause of death for Americans. Increasing awareness of marijuana’s effects on heart health may be a prevention tool to reduce the number of heart complications per year.
An investigative report by Denver police into Thamba's death released this week details events leading up to the young man's death.
This story was first reported by CBS4.
Thamba, who was from the Democratic Republic of the Congo in Africa, ate an entire "Sweet Grass Kitchen" lemon poppy seed cookie. It contained 65 milligrams of THC and was labeled 6.5 servings, the report said.
Gondwe, 23, one of the students and a friend of Thamba, told investigators that the cookie was purchased at a downtown marijuana store, Native Root Apothecary, on the 16th Street Mall.
An employee at the store told them to "cut the cookie into six pieces and to only eat one piece at a time," the police report said.
The group purchased four cookies, one for each one of them, at a price of $10 apiece.
Back at the hotel they all consumed a single slice of the cookie. Thamba said "he didn't feel anything and he ate the remainder of his cookie all at once."
Thamba awoke early that morning, shivering and speaking in French, the report said. The others — the group was sharing a room — calmed him down.
But he awoke several times, again in incoherent states, at one point apparently talking to a room lamp.
During one of the intervals, Thamba left the fourth- floor hotel room, returned and said: "This is a sign from God that this has happened, that I can't control myself," Anna Jakaovljeveic, 20, Thamba's friend, told investigators. "It's not because of the weed."
He went back to sleep, but awoke "crazy" and began smashing room furniture, lamps and the television.
He ran from the room, out the front door, and tumbled over a railing on an elevated hallway overlooking the lobby.
Two hotel employees witnessed the fall and told police no one was near him at the time.
Andres Bigum, 20, was bolting after Thamba from the room, but wasn't able to catch up with the victim.
As part of the investigation police confiscated all Sweet Grass cookies Native Root had in stock. All of the 67 cookies had THC levels that tested within "required limits," the report said.
The Denver coroner listed "marijuana intoxication" as a significant condition contributing to his death. According to an autopsy report, Thamba's marijuana concentration in his blood was 7.2 nanograms of active THC per milliliter of blood. In impaired driving cases, state law sets a standard of 5 nanograms per milliliter at which juries can presume impairment.
This story was first reported by CBS4.
Thamba, who was from the Democratic Republic of the Congo in Africa, ate an entire "Sweet Grass Kitchen" lemon poppy seed cookie. It contained 65 milligrams of THC and was labeled 6.5 servings, the report said.
Gondwe, 23, one of the students and a friend of Thamba, told investigators that the cookie was purchased at a downtown marijuana store, Native Root Apothecary, on the 16th Street Mall.
An employee at the store told them to "cut the cookie into six pieces and to only eat one piece at a time," the police report said.
The group purchased four cookies, one for each one of them, at a price of $10 apiece.
Back at the hotel they all consumed a single slice of the cookie. Thamba said "he didn't feel anything and he ate the remainder of his cookie all at once."
Thamba awoke early that morning, shivering and speaking in French, the report said. The others — the group was sharing a room — calmed him down.
But he awoke several times, again in incoherent states, at one point apparently talking to a room lamp.
During one of the intervals, Thamba left the fourth- floor hotel room, returned and said: "This is a sign from God that this has happened, that I can't control myself," Anna Jakaovljeveic, 20, Thamba's friend, told investigators. "It's not because of the weed."
He went back to sleep, but awoke "crazy" and began smashing room furniture, lamps and the television.
He ran from the room, out the front door, and tumbled over a railing on an elevated hallway overlooking the lobby.
Two hotel employees witnessed the fall and told police no one was near him at the time.
Andres Bigum, 20, was bolting after Thamba from the room, but wasn't able to catch up with the victim.
As part of the investigation police confiscated all Sweet Grass cookies Native Root had in stock. All of the 67 cookies had THC levels that tested within "required limits," the report said.
The Denver coroner listed "marijuana intoxication" as a significant condition contributing to his death. According to an autopsy report, Thamba's marijuana concentration in his blood was 7.2 nanograms of active THC per milliliter of blood. In impaired driving cases, state law sets a standard of 5 nanograms per milliliter at which juries can presume impairment.
WaittillIdie
Member
.
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