4th grow in Promix - I still suck - Help

[Lester Beans]

Nice, advice from a true master! Lucky you my friend! I would follow what that man said to a "T". Keep us posted!

 

[Jonnysact]

Thank you guys. I'm a bit bed ridden at the moment but took the time to transplant them and try to get the medium PH sorted out.

Here they are at the moment, well... two of them anyway. Need to buy more medium to transplant the other one.

 

[MrBungle]

How were your roots when you transplanted?

 

[Jonnysact]

The roots running down the side were a little dark and skinny. The ones at the bottom were stuck to the perlite (had a half inch of perlite at the bottom for easy runoff) were much whiter and had that little white hairs on them. But overall, Ii've seen much nice roots. We'll see how they fare in a few days time after a few waterings. But I imagine now with the transplant, I will really need to let the roots stretch and let the medium dry completely before watering again, so i am guessing i'll only be watering in about 4 days time.

 

[Tynehead Tom]

Nice, advice from a true master! Lucky you my friend! I would follow what that man said to a "T". Keep us posted!

ya..... I'm gonna heed that advice as well.
although I'm still curious about the difference between sunshine 4 and promix and how they relate to PH , LOL

good thread OP , gonna be cool to see you resurrect those plants with the help of the fine folks here

 

[Bwanabud]

Whoa, a little yellow? Dude, those plants are fucked! That is a textbook pic of a severely Mg deficient plant.

Your pH is way too low and has been for some time, locking out Mg completely. Look at how yellow the leaves are- that's due to a complete lack of Mg in the plant due to pH lockout of Mg. Mg makes up the central ion in chlorophyll.... your plant can't absorb Mg from the soil because the pH is too low, making chlorophyll synthesis all but stop- thus the yellow, sickly plant.

You need to immediately:

a) water at 8.0-8.5 about 5x the volume of your soil/container... You will see if you repeatedly measure the pH of the runoff, that your pH will start to rise after multiple flushes. The flush water should consist of 2-300 ppm of epsom salts (available at your local pharmacy.

b) I would personally mix up 200 ppm of veg solution, with 200 ppm of epsom salts. They don't need much food at the moment- they aren't growing!!!! Just like feeding a severely malnourished human, you don't want to sit them down for a full on 5 course steak dinner right now. Less is more right now, until you get them back to health.

c) Transplant into larger containers

d) Immediately stop listening to people who tell you to water at pH 5.8. That's insane in Promix, which is naturally acidic and will push down the pH over time as nutrients accumulate. 5.8 is fine for medium-less hydroponics. Watering pH 5.8 in soilless mix is a recipe for disaster.

e) In the future, mix in 2-3 cups of dolmomite lime per bale of Promix before planting. The runoff should be no lower than 6.3. As stated, 6.7 is ideal for Promix.

f) Use containers that are appropriately sized for your plant. Larger pots are better, will provide more soil to buffer pH swings. I like pots that are at least as wide as the plant leaves stretch. so a 3 foot tall plant can handle a 3 gallon pot.

Water at a pH no lower than 6.7. Even then, over a couple of weeks, you will see the pH of the effluent/run off will drop. You want the pH of the medium to be 6.3-6.7 after all is said and done. If you are watering at 6.7 and the pH of the effluent is coming out below 6.3, you are heading for trouble again.

Ensure you ALWAYS have 15-20% runoff from the bottom of the pot. This will stop nutrient buildup which causes the pH to crash, which is locking out Mg and causing your plant to suffer.

If you follow these simple steps you are on the road to recovery. You will see the new growth will start and become a light lime green at first near the tips, then gradually become darker. ALL of the current leaves on your plant are going to die over the next 2 weeks, but the new growth should be healthy. Don't worry about losing those leaves, it's to be expected at this point.

-Chimera

Print this post out and post it on your wall, it's exactly what you need to do in the future to have great plants.

I've grown in Promix cut 50/50 with perlite, for 10 years. I'm running a total 135 x 600w HPS lites, if it didn't produce I'd dump it for coco or hydro. My plants (12 strains) average 604 grams per light, or 5.3z per plant...that was 2015 averages, I'll recheck again in 6 months.

I usually feed 3 times in a row, then a flush while checking run-off...I check PH & more importantly PPM readings. When your PH is dropping, the PPM's are rising, and you know a media cleaning is coming. Good drainage is the key to success, if you have tons of perlite, the plants will need watered again in 2-3 days after a flush. If it's taking 4-5 days then the soil is saturated and no oxygen is getting to the roots...they are sitting in shit.

I run 10-20% run-off with every watering, and PH my water to 6.4-6.6. I use all 5 gal. pots, and scrog all girls...my plants at the end of stretch are 32" including the pot...so about 28" tall plants. I grow short bushy rose bushes with 35-40 colas each. Keep your media happy, and the plants will absorb the nutes...if they sit in shit, your plants will turn into the same.

In my opinion what's important isn't necessarily water PH/run-off amount/nute PPM...it's what the "root zone" is actually seeing, as to whether she can absorb the nutrients and stay happy. So you can buffer the PH to make up for "dirty" media, but only so much. When the media is kept "clean" (within .2 PH & no higher than 1100 PPM), then the plants will absorb & react favorably to the nutrients.

You've gotten a lot of great advice so far, don't over-love the plants...you can sing to them, but don't over water them

 

[Jonnysact]

Thanks again guys. Will post again when there is more progress to report!

 

[Lester Beans]

Sunshine and Promix are basically the same and require the nutrient solution to be ph'd between 6.5 and 6.8

 

[_tessarecting]

Thanks everyone for elaborating on this topic. I never knew the difference between medium-less and soilless until today that clears up a lot of confusion! I see sunshine 4 describes itself as soilless on the bag, I'm going to start raising the ph. Very interesting...

 

[Jonnysact]

Thanks everyone for elaborating on this topic. I never knew the difference between medium-less and soilless until today that clears up a lot of confusion! I see sunshine 4 describes itself as soilless on the bag, I'm going to start raising the ph. Very interesting...

Right?

 

[Jonnysact]

Alright,

so I transplanted one of my ladies this morning. The roots, to my untrained eye, looked quite healthy, but there was definitely some algae growing on the perlite. Bad? Me thinks so.

Either way, I transplanted, PH'ed water to 8.5 and started flushing. It easily took 5-8 times the volume of my pot to get my runoff where you suggested, between 6.3-6.8.

Used ProMix Potting Mix, the stuff is %0.30 - %0.08 - %0.08. The water going in was PH'ed at 8.5 and a ppm of 160. Runoff was reading 1350ppm (135 x 10) and a PH of 5.8!!! I flushed, I flushed and I flushed and finally after a shit ton of watering, I got my runoff PH to read at 6.7 and a ppm of 420.

Questions:

1) From now on, what PH should I water at? I don't believe I can flush every single time to get the PH in check. What is the best way to proceed? Can I now continue to water at around PH 6.7-7 to keep things in optimal range?

2) Am i going to have to flush my medium every time i transplant due to the acid nature of the peat moss and high concentration of nutes to get things balanced before proper growth can continue?

Thanks!

 

[MrBungle]

did it look like this? or like this?

cause I'm pretty sure the guys are talking about the first one... The only experience I have with the second 1 is with fruits and veggies, and I had horrible experiences with it also.. no matter what I did

The roots look pretty good actually, I think the algae is a sign of possibly too much water

 

[Jonnysact]

I got this:

 

[MrBungle]

Pro mix and their peat blends..... How many do they really need? lol

I haven't tried that one yet.. The perlite looks better than what I've seen in recent times... unless that is what you added to it

 

[Jonnysact]

What you are seeing in my photo is my original medium:

I added a half inch of perlite at the bottom of my pot to allow for better drainage. And then did about 1 part perlite, 5 parts promix.

When i transplanted into my new pots, i used the ProMix Potting Mix.

 

[Jonnysact]

Here are the other ladies, a day after the transplant.

And one of my new ladies that I hope to grow with as few errors as possible.

 

[Bwanabud]

With all due respect: I think you have a smorgasbord of problems going on now

First water PH issues, then low PH/hi PPM numbers, massive flushes leading to over watering....and now the mix you used

There are a bunch of "ProMix" formulas on the market, most guys use HP or BX...there are basically an inert media without nutrients, and fairly high drainage products. The "ProMix" you chose both have organic slow release nutrients already in them, thus the "ready to use" description. They don't have very much perlite for drainage, and you're not controlling your nutrient levels when it a pre-nuted formula.

So you are using an organic nutrient media, while using a synthetic based nutrient base(GH 3 part)...the synthetic base will kill every bit of micro herd that exists in that pot...dead, done, nada.

First thing I would do is quit watering them, let them dry out a little...for the size of the plants & pot size, your watering wet circle around the tiny plant is huge. With a small root system it will take forever for her to use the water & she's drowning in a mud hole with no oxygen to the roots. The more/faster wet/dry cycles to can give the plant, the faster she will absorb the nutrients and grow healthy. She is very yellow from lack of nutrients and too much water, thus photosynthesis isn't developing chlorophyll (why leaves are green/dark green).

In the future look for HP Promix, raise your water PH to 6.5-6.7, only water enough for her to use it in 2-3 days. MJ is a very hearty plant, and very tough in environmental changes...your plants will recover if you quit trying so hard

 

[Jonnysact]

With all due respect: I think you have a smorgasbord of problems going on now

First water PH issues, then low PH/hi PPM numbers, massive flushes leading to over watering....and now the mix you used

There are a bunch of "ProMix" formulas on the market, most guys use HP or BX...there are basically an inert media without nutrients, and fairly high drainage products. The "ProMix" you chose both have organic slow release nutrients already in them, thus the "ready to use" description. They don't have very much perlite for drainage, and you're not controlling your nutrient levels when it a pre-nuted formula.

So you are using an organic nutrient media, while using a synthetic based nutrient base(GH 3 part)...the synthetic base will kill every bit of micro herd that exists in that pot...dead, done, nada.

First thing I would do is quit watering them, let them dry out a little...for the size of the plants & pot size, your watering wet circle around the tiny plant is huge. With a small root system it will take forever for her to use the water & she's drowning in a mud hole with no oxygen to the roots. The more/faster wet/dry cycles to can give the plant, the faster she will absorb the nutrients and grow healthy. She is very yellow from lack of nutrients and too much water, thus photosynthesis isn't developing chlorophyll (why leaves are green/dark green).

In the future look for HP Promix, raise your water PH to 6.5-6.7, only water enough for her to use it in 2-3 days. MJ is a very hearty plant, and very tough in environmental changes...your plants will recover if you quit trying so hard

Thank you for your response. I'm getting a few mixed pieces of info here though. I wrote that I added my own perlite. So that should not be a problem right? Perhaps you misread that.

I was told to flush my system to get the right PH. But you're saying "your watering wet circle around the tiny plant is huge"

I don't understand how I can accomplish one without disturbing the other.

But please, I would very much like these specific questions answered if you would be so kind:

1) From now on, what PH should I water at? I don't believe I can flush every single time to get the PH in check. What is the best way to proceed? Can I now continue to water at around PH 6.7-7 to keep things in optimal range?

2) Am i going to have to flush my medium every time i transplant due to the acid nature of the peat moss and high concentration of nutes to get things balanced before proper growth can continue?

 

[Bwanabud]

Thank you for your response. I'm getting a few mixed pieces of info here though. I wrote that I added my own perlite. So that should not be a problem right? Perhaps you misread that.

I was told to flush my system to get the right PH. But you're saying "your watering wet circle around the tiny plant is huge"

I don't understand how I can accomplish one without disturbing the other.

But please, I would very much like these specific questions answered if you would be so kind:

1) From now on, what PH should I water at? I don't believe I can flush every single time to get the PH in check. What is the best way to proceed? Can I now continue to water at around PH 6.7-7 to keep things in optimal range?

2) Am i going to have to flush my medium every time i transplant due to the acid nature of the peat moss and high concentration of nutes to get things balanced before proper growth can continue?

Remember this: Not a single grower here hasn't fought the same battle you're fighting right now, we've all had bloody noses in this game. It's a learning curve that takes a bit, be patient and don't let sensory overload take place(too many opinions and info, then smoke a bowl and start fucking with your plants ) Everyone does things a little different, but stick to the BASICS and dial in your room conditions/watering-feed schedule/strain's abilities...you'll be a pro in no time

Your conflicting information comes from a variety of places/reasons, but you have to pick your poison...synthetic or organic...soil or media...tap water or R/O...etc. You needed to flush the plants, no problem there..transplant to larger pots, again no problem,,but don't re-water them after you just flushed them. In Promix I add 50% perlite, just for drainage & flushing purposes...so a 50/50 mix. I would stick to 6.5-6.7 PH water/nutrients right now, let the girl settle in for a bit and grow roots.

Flushing is a maintenance issue of PM, I don't flush new media...let the PPM & PH meter be your friend, it will tell you when the flush is needed. Tho PM is low at 5.6ish PH straight from the bag, it will rise from the 6.7ish waterings...and climb, then as nutes are used by the plant, salts are left behind and will start dropping.

Relax, go slow, be patient...they will rebound & produce.

PS: Since the media is pre-charged, I wouldn't be feeding the babies until they "call" for it or get transplanted...there is enough in the media for them to thrive up to 6"-8"ish or so.

 

[darthcultivator]

cut em down scrap everything and start over. get some coco get rid of the promix fuck soil all together. soil can be very challenging for noobs and for people trying to help, because god only knows whats really in your soil. we all know what is in coco or any other soiless mix. i think your going about this all the wrong way. seriously chop everything down. sit back, get your bearings and study your ass off and really try to come up with a better plan before attempting this again. if you cant do that, you will never have a good harvest. i recommend coco with a well known complete nutrient for forum support for starters.