4th graders asked to give up Constitutional rights

[mrcreosote]

Well someone has to nod their collectivist heads with profound understanding as they repeal the second amendment for their own good.

Gotta get em while they're young and dumb.

Then they can be happy and grateful little workers with untroubled minds because Big Brother knows what's best.

 

[dagnabit]

It started with that fucking pledge!
They forced us to pledge our allegiance to an overreaching federal state!
Its subtle and insidious.
The small changes in vernacular. These states united become these united states become the united states.
It seems so insignificant but it is so profound.
If people only took the time to learn the history of the commonplace they would shrug the warm comfort of familiarity for the cold reality of truth.

Dont say that pledge and dont let your kids!

 

[Stoner4Life]

I don't think that 4th graders have the mental capacity to figure out exactly what they wrote as they're really not aware of what all of their rights are yet. As they grow they'll rely on those rights more and more as those rights become intertwined in their lives.

But suddenly some will think "Didn't I give up those rights so that I can be protected?" When we all know the protection afforded us are EXACTLY those rights.

Subscribe to that school lesson as fair game for those kids and the blanket of protection that actually is supposed to cover us up will shrink to the size of a wash cloth, just big enough to catch some crocodile tears.

 

[Bionic]

LMAO @ How did I know it was Florida?!

 

[Wiggs Dannyboy]

I don't see it like that Dannyboy, I see it like this.

that teacher should lose her job, but most likely won't. I doubt that she's alone in her political opinion either, others in the system might think just like Sabb but were not quite so dumb as to be caught sending kids home with the shit above. the teachers union is strong, almost as tough as getting a cop fired is a teacher losing their job.

if you read the article it states that another parent voiced their concern for the same issue back in January when it happened, did they fire that teacher then? No, she still has her job although they're "checking into" the situation again, lucky us!

so yeah you're up against the system, in this case only a single teacher in a single school.

now, if you read that simple statement as my convicting the ENTIRE school system & teachers coast to coast then you might need to reconsider your ability to read between the lines.

Yeah....I was kinda lit when I wrote that last night...didn't manage to write what I was actually thinking.

What I should have written, and the part that I had a problem with, was your statement at the end..."Your tax dollars hard at work."

Regarding that statement....making a connection between this teacher's performance and tax dollars...is not fair. It's not the "tax dollars" fault when an individual getting paid with tax dollars does something wrong. Given the enormity of tax dollar supported professions, with all the millions of people employed therein, there will unavoidably be numerous examples of this same kind. It is equally true when people are getting paid through the private sector. Humans fuck up on occasion, and it's impossible to filter all these people out before hiring them.

There's just no way that our tax dollars are going to be spent perfectly, just like privately funded efforts don't spend their dollars perfectly. We have to have realistic expectations if we want to have a sensible society.

As to the firing of a teacher...I understand the frustration that can happen when a shitty teacher can't get removed from the job, it's due to something called "tenure," which is awarded to a teacher after a certain number of years of good job performance. Once a teacher is awarded a tenured position, it becomes much harder to remove them.

There is actually a very good reason for this, I know this because both of my parents were teachers. Way back in our history, teachers would get fired when individuals on school boards (frequently wealthy business owners) would disagree with the teacher about something, it didn't even have to do with the curriculum, might be the political affiliation of the teacher. It was absolutely not fair to the teacher, who might have been teaching for decades at a school, to be subject to the whims of a school board member and lose their job to something not related to their teaching at all. So, teachers were awarded this protection, and this protection is defended by the union of school teachers...who else is going to do the defending?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenure_(academic)

Of course, this system of tenure isn't perfect, but nothing is perfect when it comes to humans and their constructs. Sometimes bad teachers wind up getting protected by the tenure system. But the alternative is much worse.

It's much like our civil rights that we here at IC Mag love so much...our system of government, our constitution, protects the criminally accused by assuming innocence instead of guilt. The burden is placed on the accuser to prove guilt. Under this system, sometimes the guilty go free. Again, it's not perfect but compared to the alternative where innocent folks get sent to prison, its definitely a more fair way to go.

Now, I'm not saying the innocent still don't get convicted and sent to prison, but can you imagine how many more innocent people would go to jail if the burden was on them to prove they were innocent?

 

[Wiggs Dannyboy]

I doubt that she's alone in her political opinion either...

Regarding the political opinion of the teacher...as Crusader Rabbit mentioned, it wasn't evident in the article what the sentence in question was actually there for. The context was missing. The teacher may have been a lame brain that was actually planting the idea of giving up our constitutional rights. It also may have been an exercise where the student was supposed to think about whether that would be a smart way to think about constitutional rights...is it a fair trade to give up your rights for a generally safer way of life?

Education is not just about learning facts and figures...it's also about learning to use our brain, to learn critical thinking skills (which MANY in our country, unfortunately, were never taught in their school days), and posing thought exercises where one considers a statement from both sides is a way to exercise our critical thinking skills. And, its never to early to start this kind of teaching, actually imo, the earlier the better.

 

[new3]

We're already on a slow burn and the indoctrination and propaganda is only going to get worse, the sad part is, not much you can do about it, we've already let it go to far.

SOCKPUPPET

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

The very fact that this lesson started with an attorney giving a talk about constitutional rights contradicts the assumption that the teacher wanted to give students the notion that they would be better off giving up those same rights.

I followed the link to see the photo of the piece of paper in question. Different portions are written in different colors. It looks to me that the corrections were done by the student himself. It really isn't clear what to think of this. I do wonder why the instructor had these kids writing with crayons. Seems fourth graders should be using pencils.

The point, about whether this lesson would be appropriate in emphasizing the value of protecting our rights, is valid. If you start out by telling them "don't do this", there is a good chance that all they'll remember is "do this".

 

[Tudo]

Yeah well, tens of thousands go to hear Ron Paul, a couple dozen for the other guy and they nominate the other guy and the press calls Dr Paul names and minimalizes words like Constitution, Honor, Truth, Freedom and wave after wave of crowds looking at this man as a true voice of change. In short, if you believe we have free and fair elections well..........

The shit in this story has become the norm not the exception. Sure am glad to work extra years of my life so as to pay the taxes that support all those troops in over 100 countries. Yeah

 

[Stoner4Life]

this specific case might be about one incident but you don't have to go too far back in history to dredge up the D.A.R.E. program where the govt & nearly every public elementary school in the USA prescribed a program where children should rat out their folks for even cannabis use. And could a parent withdraw their kid from DARE w/out bringing a lot of suspicion upon themselves?

what a racket the school system can be.

that was mind control on a nationwide level in the schools, so when I see it applied here I'm not very forgiving.

the article says a local lawyer was there to instruct the class, could a local congressman with a law degree be considered a 'local lawyer'? Yes, yes he could. My mind is left to wonder as I'm sure some truths have been obscured.

I'm suspect of all this shit and I don't have any kids.

I'm certainly not thinking that it's a conspiracy beyond the scope of that school, but I am for damn sure thinking that a firm display of complacency is exactly what they hope your reaction will be.

 

[bentom187]

the conditioning doesnt stop at schools,you're right to be concerned.


http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul233.html
Democracy Is Not Freedom

by Rep. Ron Paul, MD
by Rep. Ron Paul, MD


“…man is not free unless government is limited. There's a clear cause and effect here that is as neat and predictable as a law of physics: As government expands, liberty contracts.”

~ Ronald Reagan

We've all heard the words democracy and freedom used countless times, especially in the context of our invasion of Iraq. They are used interchangeably in modern political discourse, yet their true meanings are very different.

George Orwell wrote about “meaningless words” that are endlessly repeated in the political arena.* Words like “freedom,” “democracy,” and “justice,” Orwell explained, have been abused so long that their original meanings have been eviscerated. In Orwell's view, political words were “Often used in a consciously dishonest way.” Without precise meanings behind words, politicians and elites can obscure reality and condition people to reflexively associate certain words with positive or negative perceptions. In other words, unpleasant facts can be hidden behind purposely meaningless language. As a result, Americans have been conditioned to accept the word “democracy” as a synonym for freedom, and thus to believe that democracy is unquestionably good.

The problem is that democracy is not freedom. Democracy is simply majoritarianism, which is inherently incompatible with real freedom. Our founding fathers clearly understood this, as evidenced not only by our republican constitutional system, but also by their writings in the Federalist Papers and elsewhere. James Madison cautioned that under a democratic government, “There is nothing to check the inducement to sacrifice the weaker party or the obnoxious individual.” John Adams argued that democracies merely grant revocable rights to citizens depending on the whims of the masses, while a republic exists to secure and protect pre-existing rights. Yet how many Americans know that the word “democracy” is found neither in the Constitution nor the Declaration of Independence, our very founding documents?

A truly democratic election in Iraq, without U.S. interference and U.S. puppet candidates, almost certainly would result in the creation of a Shiite theocracy. Shiite majority rule in Iraq might well mean the complete political, economic, and social subjugation of the minority Kurd and Sunni Arab populations. Such an outcome would be democratic, but would it be free? Would the Kurds and Sunnis consider themselves free? The administration talks about democracy in Iraq, but is it prepared to accept a democratically-elected Iraqi government no matter what its attitude toward the U.S. occupation? Hardly. For all our talk about freedom and democracy, the truth is we have no idea whether Iraqis will be free in the future. They're certainly not free while a foreign army occupies their country. The real test is not whether Iraq adopts a democratic, pro-western government, but rather whether ordinary Iraqis can lead their personal, religious, social, and business lives without interference from government.

Simply put, freedom is the absence of government coercion. Our Founding Fathers understood this, and created the least coercive government in the history of the world. The Constitution established a very limited, decentralized government to provide national defense and little else. States, not the federal government, were charged with protecting individuals against criminal force and fraud. For the first time, a government was created solely to protect the rights, liberties, and property of its citizens. Any government coercion beyond that necessary to secure those rights was forbidden, both through the Bill of Rights and the doctrine of strictly enumerated powers. This reflected the founders' belief that democratic government could be as tyrannical as any King.

Few Americans understand that all government action is inherently coercive. If nothing else, government action requires taxes. If taxes were freely paid, they wouldn't be called taxes, they'd be called donations. If we intend to use the word freedom in an honest way, we should have the simple integrity to give it real meaning: Freedom is living without government coercion. So when a politician talks about freedom for this group or that, ask yourself whether he is advocating more government action or less.

The political left equates freedom with liberation from material wants, always via a large and benevolent government that exists to create equality on earth. To modern liberals, men are free only when the laws of economics and scarcity are suspended, the landlord is rebuffed, the doctor presents no bill, and groceries are given away. But philosopher Ayn Rand (and many others before her) demolished this argument by explaining how such “freedom” for some is possible only when government takes freedoms away from others. In other words, government claims on the lives and property of those who are expected to provide housing, medical care, food, etc. for others are coercive — and thus incompatible with freedom. “Liberalism,” which once stood for civil, political, and economic liberties, has become a synonym for omnipotent coercive government.

The political right equates freedom with national greatness brought about through military strength. Like the left, modern conservatives favor an all-powerful central state — but for militarism, corporatism, and faith-based welfarism. Unlike the Taft-Goldwater conservatives of yesteryear, today's Republicans are eager to expand government spending, increase the federal police apparatus, and intervene militarily around the world. The last tenuous links between conservatives and support for smaller government have been severed. “Conservatism,” which once meant respect for tradition and distrust of active government, has transformed into big-government utopian grandiosity.

Orwell certainly was right about the use of meaningless words in politics. If we hope to remain free, we must cut through the fog and attach concrete meanings to the words politicians use to deceive us. We must reassert that America is a republic, not a democracy, and remind ourselves that the Constitution places limits on government that no majority can overrule. We must resist any use of the word “freedom” to describe state action. We must reject the current meaningless designations of “liberals” and “conservatives,” in favor of an accurate term for both: statists.

Every politician on earth claims to support freedom. The problem is so few of them understand the simple meaning of the word.


*Politics and the English Language, 1946.

February 7, 2005

Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas.

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BREAKING: Joe Biden calls to 'create a New World Order'
Apr 6, 2013
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[LovableHuggable]

”Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither.” - Benjamin Franklin

This is not a real quote. It surfaces a lot but the real quote is from Charles Louis de Secundant, the Baron of Montesquieu somewhere in 1600s and reads "A man that would sacrifice his freedom for security deserves neither. The God who gave us life gave us liberty at the same time."

 

[resinryder]

Here's a couple more of the important things going on in public schools.

Texas Public Schools Curriculum -Boston Pea pary was an act ot terrorism-
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/26/boston-tea-party-was-act-_n_2193916.html

New York-English teashers assignment to write a paper that says-Argue that Jews are evil
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/12/school-nazi-assignment/2077973/

 

[dagnabit]

this specific case might be about one incident but you don't have to go too far back in history to dredge up the D.A.R.E. program where the govt & nearly every public elementary school in the USA prescribed a program where children should rat out their folks for even cannabis use. And could a parent withdraw their kid from DARE w/out bringing a lot of suspicion upon themselves?

what a racket the school system can be.

it goes back soooo far.
they groom the next generation. it is the most important job in society and is left to idiots or ideologues in large majority..

the racism part is there sure but the real horror of the intent and consequences of its implementation.
our oaths are to uphold and defend the constitution not to the republic(state)or the flag(symbol)and bellamy's stated intent was to change that attitude upon generations.
it worked and continues to work today.

 

[Green lung]

.


I'd like to hear the context?





The kid writes with different colored crayons?


Something smell fishy here?


A right wing witch hunt, we know they hate Teachers and Education.



.

 

[bentom187]

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[Stoner4Life]

.


I'd like to hear the context?





The kid writes with different colored crayons?


Something smell fishy here?


A right wing witch hunt, we know they hate Teachers and Education.



.

you can be sure the true context has been lost with time & glossed over so as to prevent any more alarm than has already been sounded.

I've never seen a box of 64 Crayolas all in one color though.

 

[Wiggs Dannyboy]

it is the most important job in society

This is absolutely true. Yet teacher's pay scale, when compared to other career fields with similar educational requirements, are much less.

and is left to idiots or ideologues in large majority..

This is complete hogwash, a generalization that couldn't be further from the truth. I challenge you to back up that ridiculous statement with some facts Dagnabit. And that shouldn't include examples of INDIVIDUALS in the teaching profession, like I said earlier, any collection of humans will be rife with examples of bad behaviour or scandalous actions.

I couldn't do a quote of the copy in that photograph that shows a bunch of black children giving what appears to be a zig heil salute, but it says that government funded schools (i.e. public education) are socialist in their nature and actually equates them with the nazi party. Our public schools are being demeaned as being tools of nazi propaganda. This is fucking outrageous.

It calls our public schools "government schools," which obviously is intended to suggest that because the government is involved it is against freedom. This is all part of a current trend amongst the right wing to say anything government related is against freedom, and is leading to evil socialism. Its paranoid, and it isn't close to being the truth, unless you just act like a lazy sponge and soak up all the ridiculous FOX NEWS Propaganda.

That photo and text comes from rexcurry.net, and is so obviously a politically partisan extreme website that for you to post that makes me wonder about your critical thinking skills.

I'm done responding in this thread, it just isn't worth the time when such ridiculous posts like the one above are made.

 

[bentom187]

its not the neo-liberal left or neo-con right they are both statist,and i beleive thats what we would like to end.if you look at it logicly all the government does is make slaves out of the minority. weather or not thats out of 2 individuals or 2 groups it doesnt matter one of them will be submitting.

if it wasnt force fraud or coercion then it would be volintary.

and yes both parties are victoms of there ignorence.

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[Crusader Rabbit]

I've never seen a box of 64 Crayolas all in one color though.

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