40x40x120cm Tangerine Dream+Cannatonic

[Torbo]

They keep growing and are now up to 45ml/10l Canna terra flores. I think I will also start with their pk13/14 sometimes next week.

But I'm wondering how I should count the flowering days. I've always interpreted the "8 weeks to harvest" as 8 weeks from when you switch to 12/12. But maybe this time is counted from the first sign of flowering? When the first pistills show?
I want to feed PK13/14 four weeks before harvest but when that is depends on how I count so I figure I'm gonna give it "in between" (around day 33-35) and for a week.
Any thoughts around this?

 

[Mitsuharu]

The plants should notice when you switch, they have a inner clock... even outdoors when the transition is smooth and not a cut from 18 - 12h they notice.

Personally i got no experience with pk 13/14 but don't overdo, it can lead to budrot if you are giving too much.

 

[Torbo]

Starting to get frosty:

 

[Rud3ster]

Today I've topped up all the pots with soil (and those brown drainage balls, please teach me the english name for them).
Now I'll just let them settle for a few days before switching to 12/12.
View attachment 18820468

Leca is the term you’re looking for.

 

[revegeta666]

8 weeks from when you switch to 12/12. But maybe this time is counted from the first sign of flowering? When the first pistills show?

Day 1 of flower is the day you switch

 

[Torbo]

Leca is the term you’re looking for.

In english aswell? Hydroton seems to be pretty well-established and I've seen it on a lot of places since I learnt the word. Leca is what I've always used tho so if english-speakers understand it I'll stick to it.

Day 1 of flower is the day you switch

Thanks for your reply! This seems to be highly debated but so far I'm settling on first day on 12/12 to be true for photoperiod plants and first sign of flowering on autos.

I know that I should take the seedmakers "days before harvest" with a big grain of salt, but what you're saying is that their numbers is counted from switch?

 

[revegeta666]

This seems to be highly debated but so far I'm settling on first day on 12/12 to be true for photoperiod plants and first sign of flowering on autos.

I know that I should take the seedmakers "days before harvest" with a big grain of salt, but what you're saying is that their numbers is counted from switch?

First news I hear about this being debated at all mate, as it's the established way to count the day of switch as the first day of flower. Otherwise you would have no way of knowing accurately how long the plant has been flowering. Every strain even every plant reacts differently to the changes in photoperiod and the flowering onset can take anywhere from 2-3 days to 2 weeks. Changes in the environment also can affect the flowering onset so it would be a mess, and you could even start arguing about what is the first sign of flowering. Pistils? Stretch? Lighter color in the tops? It's just not practical for communication between growers.

Most seedmakers lie about finishing times, because having a strain that finishes a week earlier than that of the competitors can have an impact on their sales. As a rule of thumb, if the seller says 8 weeks, I would aim for 9-10 weeks. Unless you know for a fact th breeder is accurate with his descriptions which does happen although this is the exception in my experience. In any case every single one of them is referring to the days since the switch otherwise it would be impossible to tell really.

I never grew autos but I have seen many times the auto sellers say "90 days from seed til harvest" for example. This seems more honest than try to give you an accurate flowering time. In that case I would add 7-10 days as well lol

Edit - just saw I missed the p/k question. I agree with Mitsuharu, you can easily overdo it so be careful. Plants are looking excellent so t woul be a shame if they hermied at the end.

For a 8 week strain they would usually recommend to add the p/k for weeks 4,5 and 6. Less is more here and in my opinion with PK boosters you are trading quality for quantity. But this is indeed very debated and other people would tell you different.

 

[goingrey]

First news I hear about this being debated at all mate, as it's the established way to count the day of switch as the first day of flower. Otherwise you would have no way of knowing accurately how long the plant has been flowering. Every strain even every plant reacts differently to the changes in photoperiod and the flowering onset can take anywhere from 2-3 days to 2 weeks. Changes in the environment also can affect the flowering onset so it would be a mess, and you could even start arguing about what is the first sign of flowering. Pistils? Stretch? Lighter color in the tops? It's just not practical for communication between growers.

Most seedmakers lie about finishing times, because having a strain that finishes a week earlier than that of the competitors can have an impact on their sales. As a rule of thumb, if the seller says 8 weeks, I would aim for 9-10 weeks. Unless you know for a fact th breeder is accurate with his descriptions which does happen although this is the exception in my experience. In any case every single one of them is referring to the days since the switch otherwise it would be impossible to tell really.

I never grew autos but I have seen many times the auto sellers say "90 days from seed til harvest" for example. This seems more honest than try to give you an accurate flowering time. In that case I would add 7-10 days as well lol

Edit - just saw I missed the p/k question. I agree with Mitsuharu, you can easily overdo it so be careful. Plants are looking excellent so t woul be a shame if they hermied at the end.

For a 8 week strain they would usually recommend to add the p/k for weeks 4,5 and 6. Less is more here and in my opinion with PK boosters you are trading quality for quantity. But this is indeed very debated and other people would tell you different.

From pistils for sure. It's not flowering until there are flowers. Plant maturity and, like you point out, the environment will affect onset from flip. This is a point against starting counting at the flip, not for..

 

[revegeta666]

From pistils for sure. It's not flowering until there are flowers. Plant maturity and, like you point out, the environment will affect onset from flip. This is a point against starting counting at the flip, not for..

From pistils? How many pistils then? 4? 25? If it's 4, how are you sure they're not preflowers that plants show when they reach maturity? If it's 25, why not 4? There can easily be a window of 10 days where the tops won't tell you for sure if the flowering has started, much longer with sativas. You're the first experienced grower I have seen arguing this.

But it wouldn't matter one way or another and both ways would be equally fine, if it wasn't for the sole purpose of communicating with other growers easily:

If I ask you which day of flower is your grow and you say you are on day 20 of flower, it's because you switched 20 days ago. Otherwise, if you have 12 strains in your flower room, would you start enumerating how many days in flower is each one of your plants? The white widows are on day 18, the amnesias are on day 4, the cookies are on day 11, and on and on like that? It just makes no sense to me, sorry

 

[goingrey]

From pistils? How many pistils then? 4? 25? If it's 4, how are you sure they're not preflowers that plants show when they reach maturity? If it's 25, why not 4? There can easily be a window of 10 days where the tops won't tell you for sure if the flowering has started, much longer with sativas. You're the first experienced grower I have seen arguing this.

But it wouldn't matter one way or another and both ways would be equally fine, if it wasn't for the sole purpose of communicating with other growers easily:

If I ask you which day of flower is your grow and you say you are on day 20 of flower, it's because you switched 20 days ago. Otherwise, if you have 12 strains in your flower room, would you start enumerating how many days in flower is each one of your plants? The white widows are on day 18, the amnesias are on day 4, the cookies are on day 11, and on and on like that? It just makes no sense to me, sorry

Well, I assume the stated time is for established cuttings taken from sexually mature plants. But usually I grow from seed and flip early so that's no use to me. I flip, wait the week or two until the first pistils appear, and start counting down towards the expected harvest time.. I find it better than starting counting from flip but then adding a week or two "because breeders lie", which, fair enough, some do.

 

[revegeta666]

Well, I assume the stated time is for established cuttings taken from sexually mature plants. But usually I grow from seed and flip early so that's no use to me. I flip, wait the week or two until the first pistils appear, and start counting down towards the expected harvest time.. I find it better than starting counting from flip but then adding a week or two "because breeders lie", which, fair enough, some do.

It's not about "adding a week because breeders lie". It's about using the same language to help other users understand you quickly.

My point is if the OP has a problem in flower and he posts asking for advice, when they ask him on what day of flower he is, they mean how many days from flip, 10/10 times. No one is ever going to ask you "25 days from the switch? Or 25 days from the first pistils? It's a given.

If you do it the other way and find it more logical then great

 

[morion]

First news I hear about this being debated at all mate, as it's the established way to count the day of switch as the first day of flower. Otherwise you would have no way of knowing accurately how long the plant has been flowering. Every strain even every plant reacts differently to the changes in photoperiod and the flowering onset can take anywhere from 2-3 days to 2 weeks. Changes in the environment also can affect the flowering onset so it would be a mess, and you could even start arguing about what is the first sign of flowering. Pistils? Stretch? Lighter color in the tops? It's just not practical for communication between growers.

Most seedmakers lie about finishing times, because having a strain that finishes a week earlier than that of the competitors can have an impact on their sales. As a rule of thumb, if the seller says 8 weeks, I would aim for 9-10 weeks. Unless you know for a fact th breeder is accurate with his descriptions which does happen although this is the exception in my experience. In any case every single one of them is referring to the days since the switch otherwise it would be impossible to tell really.

I never grew autos but I have seen many times the auto sellers say "90 days from seed til harvest" for example. This seems more honest than try to give you an accurate flowering time. In that case I would add 7-10 days as well lol

Edit - just saw I missed the p/k question. I agree with Mitsuharu, you can easily overdo it so be careful. Plants are looking excellent so t woul be a shame if they hermied at the end.

For a 8 week strain they would usually recommend to add the p/k for weeks 4,5 and 6. Less is more here and in my opinion with PK boosters you are trading quality for quantity. But this is indeed very debated and other people would tell you different.

So by your logic, what about outdoors, when do you start counting?

 

[revegeta666]

So by your logic, what about outdoors, when do you start counting?

I have never met a single person in my life who counted the days of flower outdoors.

 

[morion]

I have never met a single person in my life who counted the days of flower outdoors

I have never met a single person in my life who counted the days of flower outdoors.

Flowering tíme is flowering tíme. Not fromfliptoharvest tíme.

 

[revegeta666]

Flowering tíme is flowering tíme. Not fromfliptoharvest tíme.

In that case I suggest you browse all the outdoors threads in this forum, and for each time you quote a user mentioning how many days of flower his plants have been in, I will give you 10€ for each.

 

[morion]

I have never met a single person in my life who counted the days of flower

In that case I suggest you browse all the outdoors threads in this forum, and for each time you quote a user mentioning how many days of flower his plants have been in, I will give you 10€ for each.

No point arguing with you. Buy some piracetam.

 

[revegeta666]

No point arguing with you. Buy some piracetam.

Maybe you can bring me some when you go buy your clown facepaint for the month.

 

[Mitsuharu]

...counting down towards the expected harvest time.. I find it better than starting counting from flip but then adding a week or two "because breeders lie", which, fair enough, some do.

Don't count down breeders flowering times, make your own experience because like you said for yourself, these flowering-times on paper often do not correspond to reality. If you got a deadline then maybe it's better to plan the grow for some other time. You always have to plan in extra weeks for every grow for the case that unexpected things happen or a longer flowering is needed.

Counting from switch is like a standard for all growers. And then you can really see for each different strain in your run how long it takes to react and to flower after the switch.

if you have 12 strains in your flower room, would you start enumerating how many days in flower is each one of your plants? The white widows are on day 18, the amnesias are on day 4, the cookies are on day 11, and on and on like that?

That's the point @goingrey, nobody is doing that in their grow reports, don't they!? You can see the switch as a starting line for the race.

 

[revegeta666]

Also, you can check any breeders website on the internet and their recommended flowering time will always look like this.

Indoors? 8 weeks
Outdoors? Harvest at the end of September

No breeder is ever going to say 8 weeks outdoors because it's confusing and it leads to neverending arguments like this one

Now if one counts the days from the pistils outdoors because he likes it or whatever reason, there's nothing wrong with that. But if you tell another grower your plant has been flowering outdoors for 18 days, nobody will be sure what you mean as every person's considerations can be different.

 

[Torbo]

Edit - just saw I missed the p/k question. I agree with Mitsuharu, you can easily overdo it so be careful. Plants are looking excellent so t woul be a shame if they hermied at the end.

For a 8 week strain they would usually recommend to add the p/k for weeks 4,5 and 6. Less is more here and in my opinion with PK boosters you are trading quality for quantity. But this is indeed very debated and other people would tell you different.

I used pk13/14 my last grow and that went well so I'll cross my fingers it works as well this time. I'll probably use between 1/3-2/3 of the recommended dose and only for one week. I rather err on the side of slightly underfeeding to be honest. To my understanding slightly underfeeding will at worst lower the yield while overfeeding can lead to all sorts of problems if not a completely ruined yield.

And thank you all for your input regarding the counting of flowering days. I see both sides have some decent arguments but I'll continue to count from switch for ease of mind.