4000sqft warehouse space, is 200amps enough?

[dangervt]

I have the opportunity to lease a warehouse that is 4,000sqft. Ideally, I would like to setup 2 separate flower rooms with 18-20k de in each room, closed enviro with a/c and co2. Also I will have a separate veg/clone room as well. The space has only 200amps and I am not going to upgrade the power myself. Do you think that this is a viable opportunity given the power restrictions, even with the flower rooms on a flip/flop schedule? Or should I continue searching for another space with more power?

If each gavita pulls around 5.06 amps, then there are 91.08-101.2 amps total per room. If the 2 flower rooms are on opposite 12/12 schedule than will this not overload the power if they are always on flip/flop? Or is this an electrical hazard when combined with the power from the veg room, ac, etc.?

Thanks in advance

 

[queequeg152]

this is single phase im assuming?

considering the heat load from 20k lighting, you are probably going to need dual 4 ton units.

these units are usually on 50 amp circuits when coupled to a small emergency heating coil, but i think the max non locked rotor ampacity is around 30 amps? im not sure, you should check with what ever eqipment specs you have.
my old as fuck 4 ton condensing unit is on its own 30or maby 40 amp breaker with a dedicated 60 amp for electric heating ... ive never seen anything like it anywhere else.

so two units would leave you with another 20 amp single pole circuit or maby two 15s... according to my very crude math.

can you get all of the ancillary equipment onto a 20 amp circuit?

 

[_tessarecting]

Juat make sure you dont exceed 80% of the 200 amps consistently and you should be ok.

 

[plutosmoke]

200 x .80 = 160 max available amps

You'll really need to upgrade.

 

[Zipsort]

Just have an electrician do a service upgrade.. 200 amp is like a house panel. Not much for a serious grow at all. Probably cost you like 4k

 

[hvac guy]

The 4000sf is obviously not all grow area, do the flip flop system, get an electrician to custom build the loadcenter/controller and flipbox. Add an envirocontroller like the Iponic 624, a few extra contactors and breakers, smoke and heat sensors for shutoff option. Two separate rooms buildout with 2x4s and plywood NO DRYWALL imo. If you're in Canada or US, know your electricity rates and even running CO2 burners of buildings Natural Gas, can all be synced, when burners turns on, lights dim or a few shutoff. AC and DH installed close to ceiling, AHU mount side ways about 12" from ceiling. Are you hand or auto watering. Depending on how much you're hands on, $50K minimum to buildout, then several months of operating costs. If you're in Canada, I can help you more, just PM me.

 

[Holdin']

One 200 amp service can have 35kw, or 160amps continuous load. If you were flip/flop your flower rooms, that'd leave you with ~15kw, or about ~60amps continuous load to work with for your a/c, fans, veg/clone room, whatever else would be operating on that panel etc etc.

You'd have to cut your number of lights per flower room significantly to make it work. But there's no way you'll make it happen with 18-20 gavitas per flower room PLUS a veg/clone room, and all of the associated euipment.

If you're set on running 20 lights in two flower rooms, in addition to clone/veg space and have it cooled properly, you're going to either need to look for a different space... or upgrade to 400 amp service.

 

[hvac guy]

It could be doable, you're right about the 80% constant loads, some of those loads are intermittent, like pumps. Get a dual ammeter installed and after you fire up 20 ballast, if you exceed, then shutoff a few lights if you exceed 160A.

 

[Holdin']

It could be doable, you're right about the 80% constant loads, some of those loads are intermittent, like pumps. Get a dual ammeter installed and after you fire up 20 ballast, if you exceed, then shutoff a few lights if you exceed 160A.

No, logistically it would not be doable. With 20 gavitas running at 5 amps = 100 amps continuous load. For cooling, 20 gavitas alone would require about 70,000 BTU, plus the ambient space, in a sealed room as OP said - so figure 90,000 BTU cooling would would need to be on a 90 amp circuit (plus whatever cooling for the veg/clone room). Continuous load won't be near 90 amps, but a/c equip circuits are sized the way they are for a reason - as I'm sure you know, given your handle. I'm also an "hvac guy" FTR.

So where does that leave the clone/veg room, in terms of lighting/cooling/etc, in addition to the rest of the equipment associated with running such an operation?

As I said, even with the most efficient way of building this out, it simply would not be possible to run 20 gavitas in two flower rooms, plus a veg/clone room, with a 200 amp service.

...Or you could just max everything out to nearly ~200 amps continuous load and have a fire hazard waiting to happen.

 

[queequeg152]

i thought the 80% rule was for branch circuits not the MCB and service cable?

 

[phazer]

if u havent bought the gavitas yet id say run 1k w/ vertizontals at least in a 5x5 area if not 5.5-6 and run your lights on 277v. gets the most sqft and amerage draw for ur lights and should save u couple grand at least on startup. unless ur really set on the gavitas i guess

 

[phazer]

so i guess u can get gavitas at 400v only draws 2.6 amps that should save some amps.

http://sunlightsupply.s3.amazonaws.com/documents/product/Gavita-Pro-Classic_Spec-Sheet.pdf

 

[CHEFfy]

But he is dealing with a 240 service most likely with only a 200a panel. Unless you flip-flop, don't use "active" cooling that panel won't cut it. Also, do go with gravitas/ other DE setups. It's 2016.

 

[phazer]

oh yea my bad, dont listen to me on electrical advice i have alot to learn there. But from a few warehouse growers ive seen that run gavitas they say they dont increase yield, even tho heard different from many other smaller growers. the way i see it u can fit more tops in 36sft than 16 or 20 which seems to be what alot of people cover gavis with. If i had the space id run vertizontals with at least 30 sqft each. ive had even colas across with those spacings.

 

[Holdin']

i thought the 80% rule was for branch circuits not the MCB and service cable?

80% continuous load, where a continuous load is defined as a period of three hours or more - still applies afaik.

Even if you were to consider calculated loads on some of the more intermittent pieces of equipment to take advantage of the 125% rule, OP's scenario would likely still be overloaded.

I think if OP were to reduce the number of lights per flower room, make a detailed layout of all equipment involved, you could possibly play with the numbers to make it work. But with 20kw per flower room, plus what I'd assume would be a fairly sizable veg/clone room to supply two 20kw flower rooms, with cooling considered for all, etc etc - gonna need a bigger boat.

 

[queequeg152]

the op isnt responding so im assuming this is all moot, but i seemed to recall MCB breakers being exempted provided your breaker is of a certain rating and your service cable insulation was of good quality, not the low temp stuff from way back.
the 80% rule had more to do with protecting the wire isulation from what i remember reading. it had nothing to do with the breakers itself.

im thinking so long as your service cable is rated for greater than 200 amps by 20% you could go to 200 amps by simply installing larger wire on smaller breakers. say 10 gauge wire on a 20 amp circuit. could easily be way off though, some time on that mikeholt website might be in order here.

 

[hvac guy]

By linking a PLC and the Gavita controller, lights could be dimmed when power exceeds 160A, PLC can be programmed to monitor current draw and voltage in real time, need two current transformers. you can go over 160A only intermittently,peak at 170/175 when AC compressor kicks on. A 20 lighter can be dialed-in, done it before so I don't really care about some other hvac guy says. Air cooled shades, forget the DE, one 5 ton AC, CO2 burner when turns on, ballasts dim to reduce heat and power draw. The veg/moms would have to be CFLs, a few 350W. Worst case basis, shut off 4 of the 20 ballasts, use them only when have the power available, or take 4 lights put them on trackers and you have the equivalent of 8 lights almost, then you would have 16 lights per side on flip, and 4 of the 16 are on light-rails.

 

[plutosmoke]

brother man, just upgrade your service and buy how many lights and ac that your budget allows, after the first harvest you can expand. Leave all that staying under 160 amp bs to house growers, you have a warehouse, take advantage of it.

 

[dangervt]

Thanks for the input from everyone. I'm meeting with the owner today to discuss upgrading the power. Hopefully, he will be supportive ($) of this haha.

 

[RamCTD1027]

Everyone assumes the space has single phase power, however, I rent two separate warehouse spaces that have 200amp 3 phase power. The power really isn't ideal for the square footage but run your AC(s) and lights off 3 phase and you can make it work