400 watt Cermaic Metal Halide Cabinet, Ebb& Flow System Growing DJ Short Grape Krush

[Wedge Antilles]

Murph.....Those Cmh's give off alot of heat?? Does the room cool at all using a CMH over HPS.....I know the spectrum of the cmhs is much better, and I have heard they do run cooler, but just hearsay about the temps.....I been eyeing the Grape Crush ever since I saw it in the Canabible 3......Loook in good!!....Wedgy

 

[Haps]

You really are Murphy aren't ya? The rest of us would like to thank you for getting your own grow room and hope that you will stay there, and keep out of ours. [JK] I had 7 pf 8 of my nicest seed plants go male last year, it happens, but not every time, so you are due for a good run.
H

 

[simba]

stop using Liquid Light and Penetrator its CRAP>> IMPHO>>

 

[Murphy]

You really are Murphy aren't ya? The rest of us would like to thank you for getting your own grow room and hope that you will stay there, and keep out of ours. [JK] I had 7 pf 8 of my nicest seed plants go male last year, it happens, but not every time, so you are due for a good run.
H

It's been a nickname for years, it seems most things I start, I always end up seeing the worst from the begining but, once I get it, I'll be off and running problem free. I've been through this type of "rough start" before in plenty of other ventures, I always turn it around.

 

[Murphy]

Here are photos from last night, sorry for the delay, I've been wrapped up.

PPMs ROCKIN' at 1950....a couple hundred higher than I was shooting for but adjusting currently. Water temp 66 degrees


These are some of the the Mandala Mix sprouts, I need to get more soil and perlite this weekend and they will be added to the cab. They are still under 18/6. 80 degrees in that box, note that outdoor temp......


That's from here, directly on top of my Refelector.


.....here's a cab shot now. When I was building this cab, it went a couple of different ways before I found those "Super Tubs" at lowes and the DIY thread here on IC, showing the set up. I have boards already cut that just happened to drop in perfectly. It was going to be an NGB style cab, but I found other options to keep it for just flowering. and yes, that light is tilted, With just about everything on the one side of the cab for now, I droped the back side to tilt it toward the sprouts. the 2 in the back row closest in the pick are the T* Haze X Skunk Freebies. From what I saw on Lil Wayane and FreezerBoy's threads, those won't fit in the cab for long.











One of the Mandala seeds came up like a clover or something. Deformed leaves.


adn here's where I am with the Grape Krush now.






That's it for now.

I could use some pruning input, to much, not enough,? Any thing you see, feel free to coment on.

 

[HeadyPete]

Well you got my vote for "Best Sausage Party Ever!"

 

[Murphy]

Well you got my vote for "Best Sausage Party Ever!"

Considering I'm a novice I have to take that as a compliment.......at least I got "Best" something, that's more than most get and it certainly beats hearing you're the "worst" anything.

 

[HeadyPete]

great attitude

 

[PurplePotion]

One of the Mandala seeds came up like a clover or something. Deformed leaves.

That's a trifoliate you've got there. Not extremely rare, but uncommon nonetheless. I had one from my first grow (bagseed), and it was my favorite plant to watch grow. Basically, instead of growing two main sets of leaves, it will have three the whole grow.. pretty neat to watch.

There's a thread somewhere on here specifically pertaining to this topic-- just search 'trifoliate' if you're interested in reading it.

 

[tjc1088]

sorry brah, thats somthing that really hits you where it counts,
but you have a great attitude and you surley will benifit greatly in the years to come

-T

 

[Murphy]

That's a trifoliate you've got there. Not extremely rare, but uncommon nonetheless. I had one from my first grow (bagseed), and it was my favorite plant to watch grow. Basically, instead of growing two main sets of leaves, it will have three the whole grow.. pretty neat to watch.

There's a thread somewhere on here specifically pertaining to this topic-- just search 'trifoliate' if you're interested in reading it.

Thanks for that info, I was actually surprised, I've read through a lot of Mandala grows and never saw anything about "mutants" like I did with the Grape Krush. I don't know what other are saying as far as how many they got but from 16 total beans to make through sprouting, I had 4.

TJC, thanks, the simple fact is, with everything in life, you have to pay your dues. I had "very healthy" males, I wasn't here asking why is everything dying. I'll take the bad ratio I ended up with, and now I know how to identify them better/quicker. Simple fact is, I get a compliment eveytime someone coments on how good those males looked. Apparntly my problem wasn't in the "growing" or the cabinet, just in the inexperience to identify them eariler. I built that cab from nothing, I had no design and no idea how I was going to cool 400 watts in it without an air cooled hood, I went from DWC to ebb & flow, but I worked it out and before it's all over, I'll have a few of those "holy shit, how much did you just harvest from that cabinet?" threads too. Shits is only as bad as you make it out to be. In my case I'm just waiting on some DJ Short F2 Beans to come in and that ain't too bad.

 

[yamaha_1fan]

1950 in PPM's may be too high, watch for nute burn

Mine usually stays around 14-1500

Are all those little buckets in the cabinet? How big is the cabinet?

BTW I have been following the thread but you seemed to be doing OK

 

[swampdank]

well first off murphy, on pruning. go right around the 5th node. that usually works pretty well for me. that really sucks getting so many males but we all go through it. think of it as rights of passage. if you read through (and memorize) the factors in the sex influence thread it should help your situation.

 

[MoleMcHenry]

Hey Murphy - it sucks getting all those guys, but you already have new plants in the cab ready to take off. So you are in a good place. You even have a trifolate.

A couple questions:
- Are you planning on growing out the Mandala Safari Mix seeds in soil or in hydro?

- What's your temperature at the canopy?

- How far away is the bottom of the CMH from the top of the canopy?

- Are those lids over the soil to block light? I may be paranoid, but I would be afraid they could also slow evaporation.

- If you are planning on doing a soil grow, have you read Mandala Mike's FAQ's on his web site? Taken together, that FAQ section on Mandalaseeds.com is one of the most educational places on the web. Besides ICMag of course.

So far this grow seems like it's off to a good start, and as others have said, you've been pre-catastrophe'd. I think varriform is doing a Safari Mix grow over in the Mandala forums you should check out if you haven't seen it. Compared to the Grape Kush, you'll be happy with how easy Mandala genetics are to grow. I'm guessing you'll get a pretty normal male/female ratio with this grow. And you only need 1 female to have a grow room bursting with green (or a feminized strain).

BTW, looks like we've got some girls about the same age. These are the femmed Mandala#1's I just popped last Saturday.


Grow on brother murphy!
Mole

 

[Murphy]

Yamaha, they are coffee containers, I make stuff out of just about anything and everything. I go to Home Depot and walk around for an hour just looking at stuff and thinking how it "can" be used to build shit.

1950 ppm's is off the charts for me too, I had just topped off the rez when all of the plants were in it, they were drinking about 2 1/2 gallons a day. To be honest, I had to wait a day to get it DOWN to 1950.....when I first stuck that pen in, it jumped to 2000 and just blinked. Surprisingly, it's been running that high for over a week. Those plants have been feeding that way for well over a week and show no signs of burn but I am bringing it down to about 1750 ppms.

That cab measues 36" wide, 30" deep and I control the "celing height". The reflector is recessed into it and all screwed together, it's was done to control air flow.......that's how I cool an exposed 400 watt bulb in less then 8 square feet.

Swamp Dank, thanks for that info. The bad run is just part of paying dues.

Mole, Thanks for stopping by. I'm not sure if they have a "most improved hobby grower" for the Cannabis Cup, but you got my vote. I've seen from your first grow to your current grow and you have made progress and improvements. It's kind of like watching a "grower" grow as a "grower". People keep saying I have a great attitude, Mole is one of the reasons why. He showed how much can change over 3 or 4 grows.

The Mandala mix is in dirt....my first time growing anything in dirt so this should really be good. I realized the other night, I hadn't watered them in a few days.....Hydro people don't usually have to think about things like that. I had to put them in dirt because they wouldn't be able to keep up with the Grape Krush, at 1950 ppm, they would have fried.

I can regulate the canopy temp, anywhere between high 70's to low 80's but it's the reverse of what you may think. The closer the light, the COOLER the temps, the higher the light, the higher the temps. It's all based on the air exchange rate for the given area, smaller area, faster exchange, lower temps. I couldn't identify a male from a female.....but I could design that cab to work that way, go figure. Distance right now is about 6-8 inches just because this was the sprouts first week under the "big" light. With a level canopy, I can be within 4 or 5 inches from the bulb. Check out the first picks of the males, they had grown up inside of the hood. NO BURN. Air Flow is key. No cheap fans.
The lids, were just to make things a little safer and keep moisture in for the first week. First time in the dirt, I don't know what to expect. I used those containers as DWC buckets when I was starting, the hole you see was for an airline. Later I popped a couple of holes in the sides of them about 3/4 up, instant recirc. DWC when they were sitting in the Ebb Flow tub, now I taped the holes and we have flower pots.... I don't waste much. I am planning on Wicking them so I don't have to water them but, that's another idea that may just cause problems.

Thanks for the Feedback Guys! keep it coming, all may look well but don't forget the guy behind the plants is a novice wondering what he should be doing to get things to the next level.nSome of you have forgotten more then I know.

 

[Murphy]

Here are a few more pics for better size perception.

18" ruler shown, I have 3 feet in width



Same 18" ruler from the bottom of the tray



For other's not so good with a ruler, 24 oz soda bottle or DVD to help.



Here's a shot so you can see how much room I have to go. The hood goes up behind that shelf flush. Still lots of wiring to clean up and get wrapped together. Cab will not be sloppy.


Working tonight on dropping the ppm's some more, nothing more than adding water.

 

[Don Cotyle]

Yo Murphy,That's the most males I've seen in one place! Damn shame, sometimes it's just theluch of the draw! If you can save one and put in another area and harvest some pollen for future use! No fans, put a mirror off to one side laying flat and pull the male over on it's side over the mirror. This will make pollen collection much easier. It'll drop on the mirror and can be easly scaped up with a razor. Store in a little glass vial in a cool dark place...ya never know!

Your plants look good!, so you've got your nutrient regiment down, ya just need to get more ladys in there!

I agree with what others have said you need to build an aero cloner and an area to keep a mom or 2 in ad yu'll never have to worry about males again unless of course your looking for a different strain and go from seed!

At lease you have one female in there and she looking great!!! I'd stay away from the high priced strans untill ya get a few grows under your belt and get your techniques down!!! I belive you'll be pleasantly suprised with the results on that female you've got and once you burn some you'll be hooked.

Keep on Keeping on, I'll pull a chair up and stay a while, Don!

 

[stoney419]

hey

hey

just read your whole thread man just hang in their you dont know how many grows i f**ked up untill i got on the web but you have a great attude and as far as the males go come on everybody cut him some slack it's like beating a dead horse
and imho your flirting with disaster with ppms that high
other than that if you have a problem or ? just pm me be glad to help

 

[Murphy]

PPM are down to about 1650 now. On the Dutch Master Website there is a neut calculator that has "full Strength" as 1750 ppms for weeks 2-7 in flower. I've used FloraNova in the past, loved it for PH buffering and no mixing but, it stained the roots and everytime I put a pic up, people kept asking about root rot. I'm loving the Dutch Master line. I don't know how I got away with 2000 + PPMs for a week, but the plants look great and no sign of burnt tips or anything. Thanks for the feedback guys!

I ended up with 2 Grape Krush girls left........can someone tell me when I will be able to see how badly they got pollenated?

I had some pics from when I cleaned the cab but lost them due to a dead camera battery before thay were saved, I don't have them to show. The worst/only place I saw pollen was on top of the carbon scrubber. The cab was designed that way, it sucks the hot air from the top of the "grow area", that's why it's sheilded. The air is excahanged in this cab A LOT. Some rough numbers would be I was working in about 15 Square feet and it's a 140 cfm inline fan so we are looking at about 10 times a minute, I'm still hopefull that between that in combo with the Liquid Light being spayed every other day may have helped me out....but then again, I'm a novice, all I have is wishfull thinking.

I'll pull the girls out tonight for a better photo but I can't get those macro pics like some people on here, I'll get the best shots I can.

 

[Murphy]

Here are the last 4 of the Mandala Safari Mix still in veg. Just to see if it stirs up some comments, I hit them with full strength liquid light, they have been exposed to Liquid Light before, this was the first time at full strength. and yes, it looks like anti-freeze. The Safari mix in the cab still gets sprayed but, no more on the Grape Krush, it's to far into flower.



Here they are about an hour and half later. I replanted the on that was in the "tube".


Here are the Mandala Safari Mix that have been in the cab under a 400 watt CMH since 3/10.




....and on to the first Grape Krush





.....and the second





both together, 6-8 inches from the bulb depending on the bud site.....only because of the safari mix. I could be down to about 3-4 inches.