4 x 600w dripper fed DTW 15/16 plant grow

[Hosttrevor]

Looks awesome Hosttrevor! Quite a comeback from the beginning! I'm sorry if I missed it but, what are your overall avg temps/night day variance?

Thanks mate.

You know I can't remember what they're running at. . . . stoner. . . . I have a min max thermometer in there though so I'll check and get back to you on that as the lights are off at the moment. It's been cooler of late here, but generally been quite warm/hot. The room during lights on has been running around 85-87f during lights on during this hot spell with a couple of exceptional peaks when really hot where it reached 92f!!

I've been contemplating cooled hoods for the next go around which would enable another light or two which would be ideal in this aprox 3mx2m space. Four lights isn't quite cutting it leaving one or two corners a bit short of light, 4 of the plants have not had enough light to flourish like the rest of them.

I'm also looking into using my lights vertically. It seems like its the best use of the light's as it would be hitting directly from all angles, not just from above. I need to try and find/work out whether the loss of floor space (where the light would be dangling between them) would be made up for yield wise by the extra light given by bulbs being received. I'm not sure how that would work out in the space I have. I'm at a very early development stage with this idea, just starting to read up about it. The outer side of the grow would be piss poor, even with mylar. I'd envisage less, but bigger, plants. How I'd go about plant and light spacing in a 2mx3m grow area is beyond me at the moment, but I have great belief in one of the regulars here at IC who uses this method, so I'm hoping to tap him up for some advice if he has the time.

I did notice today that the light shades are very dirty and have lost there sheen, even the new one. I'm thinking of taking them down one by one to polish, although I might see what a damp cloth with a bit of detergent and a soft cloth to dry it will do first as it'll be a pain in the ass to take the far two down at this stage. Of course I'll have each one switched off whilst I do it

I've been tying lots of branches on the nearest (in the pictures) plants to the wires I set above with dental floss today, as I'm woefully short of yo-yo thingy's. All the plants that wont have to be moved around at all for the remainder of the grow, each end basically, are going to be tied up in this fashion, freeing up yo-yos for the plants that will from time to time need to move a little to let me get in there to drain of the waste tanks and continue supporting overhanging branches, and continue the excess fan leaf removal.

I've been busy for a good couple of hours carefully removing offending fan leaves. I consider any fan leaf that cannot be tucked away that is shading good but unripening buds to be in direct contravention of the "fan leaf covering unripened buds act" !3th July 1997, in the statute of my growing techniques and principals.

I was surprised how many branches coming from branches that were laying under other branches and fan leaves with good sized but no where near as ripened by the sun (man made sun that is), lighter green yellowy look, nothing a few days of sunshine won't put right.

I'm really stringing the heads up to the light now, undoing their LST restraints and pulling them up into the light. This has exposed a myriad of lesser but still very worthwhile branches and buds. I'm about a 3rd of the way through this task, and as I go along tying/yo-yoing each plant I then remove or tuck out of the way those in the way fan leaves. I'm busy tomorrow, got a gig, but I'll hopefully get the rest done on Friday, maybe a bit on Saturday if its too much for one session.

Tomorrow, or later today, its nearly dawn now, is start of week 8. I'll be filling the next res with a lower nutrient strength of around ec .9-1.0 and feed at that for a while and then a ten day flush with plain RO water and possibly a couple of light doses of Pure Blackstrap Molasses, though I need to check on that, I'm not sure it'll be necessary during the flush stage. Can anyone fill me in on that, or any of the above.

Thanks for reading through my grow, I appreciate the comments and thoughts, and any questions or advice you may have to offer.

Trev

 

[indianajones]

actually, i have excellent vision, 20-15. that definitely looks like a seed pod
on the top of this bud.


http://s1351.photobucket.com/user/Hosttrevor/media/end of day 43/IMG_0059-19_zps0a6ef0c8.jpg.html

 

[Hosttrevor]

Day 49

Day 49

Well, I'll keep you posted, but me and my looking glasses can't find anything that's seeded.

Its getting towards the end and this one has had some heat stress and has shot a couple of ears out, but prodding and picking carefully around it I cant find anything seed like.







The tying up of branches and clearing of excess fan leaves is a work in progress. I'm about a 3rd of the way through lifting branches that have been trained outward, to expose the buds beneath to the light, and at the same time removing leaves that are in the way. I hope to get the bulk of the remainder of this done tomorrow or/and Saturday.

 

[Hosttrevor]

Looks awesome Hosttrevor! Quite a comeback from the beginning! I'm sorry if I missed it but, what are your overall avg temps/night day variance?

Over the last 2 weeks, the max has been 90.5f, the minimum has been 65.6, RH is running around 50%. Its quite humid here of late. I have a dehuey on hand if I think it needs any more help keeping this down.

The average canopy temp during lights on is 84-85f

trev

 

[Hosttrevor]

I've reset my hydrometer, so I'll fill you in more accurately with temps and RH readings in a few days.

I've failed miserably with getting on with the rest of the tying up work, I only got an hour in there today as I have a mate staying for a few days and we got wasted instead, definitely tomorrow or Monday then ;-)

 

[hereigrow]

legendary lst. what about milk crates for your waste bins? I think your idea is good for mesh screen.

 

[OG_TGR]

Over the last 2 weeks, the max has been 90.5f, the minimum has been 65.6, RH is running around 50%. Its quite humid here of late. I have a dehuey on hand if I think it needs any more help keeping this down.

The average canopy temp during lights on is 84-85f

trev

Holy cow that's a large variance! I hadn't thought about it until recently but I believe I read more than +/-10°f can cause issues. I believe this stems from assumed levels of RH and dew points. Doesn't look like you are having any mold issues though, good thing you have good circulation.
I'm just now getting on the vertical train. I've contemplated the idea for some time, as it just seems to make sense to have all of the available light utilized directly, instead of reflecting any portion of it.
My area has a volume of about 600^3. Previously I've had no problems keeping the temps below 85°f with 4 sealed reflectors, 6" duct and a 6" 440cfm Vortex fan.
That has changed significantly, lol, to say the least. With 4 bare bulbs I shot up to over 100°f in less than 15 minutes or so. I've made significant modifications to my intakes with more to go, but my biggest modification is the addition of a 12" Vortex Mixed-Flow fan (2100cfm). I was looking at the 10" and realized the 12" is FAR more efficient [10"=1266cfm/538w/120v 12"=2100cfm/500w/120v] so I figured what the hell. I was shooting for 1200cfm and figured this way I would have room for expansion!
The clones I have going in should have done so last week (5wks) but I've delayed putting them in due to temps. I think I will cut a few more intakes tomorrow and just let it ride at ~85°f avg for a week or so, should be fine.
Thanks for the info!
Fan should be here by the end of the week, I'm super excited to get my first vert on the road!

 

[Hosttrevor]

Day 52

Day 52

Hey OG_TGR, I dunno where the extremes came from, maybe had the fan off for a rearrangement of electrics etc. I reset the hydrometer and for the last two or three days its been running between 46 to 66 RH, generally 48-51 with lights on, ie. when temps are highest. The temps have been running at min 67.4 to max 83.4. Its quite humid here at the mo, its the time of year for it. I'll have to keep a really close eye out for mould over the last 10 days as there are some monster cluster buds in amongst them.

I plan on adding at least one more fan to the canopy, there's one area not getting much draft.

That's some fan you're going to have, I assume that'd doesn't give you any noise issues? My 8" RVK L1, 990cmf is noisy with all the whooshing air. I have it in a large cardboard box filled with expanding foam then sealed so no off gassing, and then acoustic ducting. It makes it a lot quieter, but still noisy enough for me to put space blanket insulation on the alcoves of the wall to the adjoining house. I've got to be very stealth where I live.

Have you got a thread running for your vert grow OG_TGR? Can you recommend any threads, concise if possible, so I can get my head around how best to plan a vert grow in a 3-3.5m x 2.3m x 2.7 high. I'll run coco with drippers if I go for it as that's what I know best. I'd have to run a separate ring for any plants on a higher tier, if I go two high that is, as well as work out a table/frame to hold them and appropriate drainage, but I'm thinking I could manage a larger overall growing surface area easier in this space, getting in amongst them is really not easy at the mo, especially now they're being tied up etc., but I will have to, to keep an eye out for any mould. I'm thinking walls of weed and a stepladder could be a well organised set up.

Not sure if I'll be at a stage where I feel ready to do this for the next grow, probably the one after, but ya never know.

End of day 52 and they're dense and heavy as they continue to fatten up. They're on plain RO water from now on as they go into a 10 day final flush. I've been given a small bottle of Canna Flush, I've no idea of what this product does and I probably only have enough in this little bottle for one plant, but I'll look into it and maybe chuck that in tmro if I think its worth it. I'd usually give them a small dose of Molasses at 7 days to go, but I think I'll leave that out and starve the last bit out of them with straight RO water.

I've been doing more tying up today, and yet more to do. It seems endless as more of the smaller outer branches get heavy and curl over. I've exhausted my supply of, and a mate's, yo-yo's so now everything is being tied up with dental floss, fucking meters of it. I may invest in two or three of hundred, if I run the same way again, you must be able to get a good discounted price on that many.

After 52 days then





Its difficult to get the scale from this photo, but its like a club with clumps coming off of it



Trev

 

[OG_TGR]

Yeah man, my grow is on the link in my signature [bottom of post, "My First Vertical Grow"]. Anything I garnered on vertical, besides what seems to be just intuitive; was from Marlow, Hundred Gram Oz, DHF, and Bobble primarily [I was highly discouraged though, after taking an entire week to read the one main sticky thread by Bobble that, in the end, didn't work.......*spoiler alert*](I apologize to any of the aforementioned contributors if I have misquoted or misspelled your names).
One of the nice things about Mixed-Flow fans is usually they put out more air at lower RPMS. If you are getting noise from them ductwork itself, the best thing you can do is to eliminate anything that deviates from a straight line and, make any turns on as wide of a radius as you can. The less you disturb the airflow, the quieter you will be. I had my last 8" duct work so smoothed out that I used to always take the hose off, to make sure it was still working! lol. No shit though, for real. I could stand right next to it and barely hear it running. Once I went down the line and got the part where there was slack in the flexible duct, I could hear the airflow/disturbance.
Another thing that mixed-flow does is increase volumetric pressure. This increased pressure can sort of "take up the slack" in minor inconsistencies in flexible ducting.
Normally, with standard inline fans, you have to increase diameter to increase pressure, as the fans don't do well with back-pressure and become self-defeating. Granted, it is usually better to restrict flow after the fan, than before. Starving a fan (limiting/restricting intake), as with most "pumps", will kill it. Mixed-flow fans increase line pressure to increase overall volume exhausted.
I noticed that box in the middle of your ceiling, now I know what it is! haha.
I would be slightly concerned with the heat that the box may retain but, I'd imagine as long as your fan is never starved, the biggest thing you may see is a shortened lifespan of the bearing/overall functionality of the fan. As a drawback to all the sound insulation, you can't "hear" when/if your fan is going/has gone bad. Still, given that RVK is manufactured in Germany, and [I believe] that all of motors in this line have integrated thermal protection; this may not be a concern at all. [note: this does mean that if it overheats it won't destroy the motor but, it will shut down....]
Still, the difference between the two types/models of fans (RVK L1/Fantech FKD10L) can boil down to the difference between ~£90 and ~£390-650.
I’ve dealt with temp issues setting this new one up and came to the conclusion that I was going to need this big ass fan to make sure it works. The calculations I needed to verify this were miraculously supplied by danielJackson on this other thread I have going, relative to eliminating the small fans on the floor in vertical grows. Ventilation Thread
Most notably was the formula = (3.2 x Wattage of Lights in Room) / (Grow Room Target Temp - Intake air temp). Since you are already ventilating uncooled lights, you should be right on or at least close to where you need to be. I on the other hand was running sealed reflectors, previously.
It’s definitely got to be easier to manage! It’s like every position is a perfect access point directly under your canopy and, no more yo-yos or dental floss!

 

[OG_TGR]

I just wanted to also point out that this picture:

makes it look like you have a recycled 1970's light up disco floor going on in there, lol.....

 

[Hosttrevor]

I just wanted to also point out that this picture:

View Image

makes it look like you have a recycled 1970's light up disco floor going on in there, lol.....

Oh yeah, my plants like to boogie

The RVK's are fine boxed in, they're designed to be fitted into enclosed boxing, they're air cooled remember , they last forever, I've never worn one out yet. I have the noise under control, but I'm interested in what you're saying about the other fans. I should always cover the fan with cling film so that I can saw the box in half and retrieve the fan in the event of a move etc., but despite being a bit anal about my grow, I'm a lazy fucker too and never do. The acoustic ducting is greaat, no noise at the exit to speak of, main noise is sucking through the filter, a little background hum from the fan itself (mounted on bunjy's to cut any vibration) and the noise of sucking air from the hefty neg pressure going on in there. They're not noises that would travel through house walls though, especially with insulation on the walls.

Thanks for the heads up on the thread hosts, I'll check them out as I get time, as I will your vert grow. Definitely very interested, but yield for room space. . . . you think it'd fair ok?

I was thinking about cool tubes and adding another 2 or 4 lights, but maybe a good idea to try with what I have for now. I'll definitely be able to up the lighting when autum, winter and spring come around.

I do fancy plants placed two high around the room, and grow quick smaller plants trained to stretch wide as opposed to tall than big trees to fill the screen.

I have done a 2m x 3m flat scrog a few times. . . . bloody hard to maintain when you're stretching over the top or maintaining from under the giant net and frame, but I am used to working with screens and the training of plants through them. I wonder if I can get it together for the next lot.

The next lot of clones have rooted well, but growth at the top is painfully slow as the cuts, taken 2-3 weeks into flower are taking their time adjusting back to life on the veg cycle. This is to be expected, once they start shooting out multi branches from the flowered area they'll really take off in all directions, easy to train. So I do have time before I have to start thinking about training them for whichever technique I decide to go with my next course of meds. A small number of the clone's buds went black and dried up, so I'm not sure if they'll find any where to put new growth out from, but as I said they've all rooted up pretty well so far. They're just under a 200w energy floro vegging bulb. Once the lights are off and current grow is being taken down, I'll move a 600w MH up to the veg tent, as I'll be able to rob the flower room of one of the digi ballasts, that'll get things moving a fair bit quicker.

OG_TGR. . . . man do I hear you on the yo-yo'ing (which is quite easy, but a bit pricey for what they are and the mass production of them) and the tying up with dental flos, with sticky blue rubber gloves on. . . . not fucking easy bro, even when you have a knack for it. . . . . . The more I think about it the more vert appeals to my senses. I just want to be sure I won't be dropping my yields, other than ironing out any teething problem. I'm imagining with the extra growing surface area, you'd expect bigger yields, but my main thing is ease of maintaining a full rocking grow.

I gathe this method is likely to grow more decent size nugs and fewer really big ones, is that generally correct OG_TGR, from wht you've gleaned so far?

Later bro, Trev

 

[OG_TGR]

I gathe this method is likely to grow more decent size nugs and fewer really big ones, is that generally correct OG_TGR, from wht you've gleaned so far?

For sure.

You aren't going to get DD's this way (Vertical), as the growth is evenly distributed.
I always used screens (5x5' and eventually just 4x4') just to keep everything even and then later for support. I dealt with tying stuff up for a little while, years ago, and then decided I never wanted to have to do it again! And with gloves on? forget it!
That's another nice thing about vert, I am currently using pipe cleaners (Marlow) to train everything into place and it is very neat and tidy!

 

[Puscifer]

Hosttrevor, I went through this thread again to catch up on things when I looked closely at post#16. Man, i can't believe you have each plant on it's own little tank. Thats a lot of work when it comes time to draining.
You run from one rez right?
We run similarly in that I run dtw in individual pots, but I hook all my pots together and make one drain system for all the pots.
Just to give you an idea...

 

[Puscifer]

The bucket with the yellow top is the "drain". Water levels itself so as the bucket bottoms fill with water, so does the drain bucket. I used to run it on a timer that would come on exactly when the feed pump would and shut off 10 minutes AFTER the feed shuts off, to account for dripping. The drain pump pumps the waste outside through a hole I drilled in the wall. The only maintenance for me is filling the rez when it's empty, the drain system is full auto. And i can easily slide the buckets around enough to get in there, OR i could simply pull out the inner bucket and set it somewheres.
Now I built a float switch system that automatically kicks on the drains pump. Easy peasy brother.
You've certainly got a green thumb though, your plants are beautiful!

PS, The white pvc against the wall is my feed line, got drip tubing coming out of it and staked to the buckets.

 

[OG_TGR]

Hosttrevor, I went through this thread again to catch up on things when I looked closely at post#16. Man, i can't believe you have each plant on it's own little tank. Thats a lot of work when it comes time to draining.
You run from one rez right?
We run similarly in that I run dtw in individual pots, but I hook all my pots together and make one drain system for all the pots.
Just to give you an idea...
View Image

Oh yeah, that would be way easier. You could both use a condensation removal pump, too.
"[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]http://www.ebay.com/sch/items/?_nkw=...adis=&LH_CAds=[/FONT]"
That would really automate things smoothly, for rather little money.

 

[madalasatori]

I'd think very carefully about going vert, if it aint broke dont fix it and you are adding a whole host of variables. Be wary of the hype in the vert forum, I've studied these forums carefully for years and hardly anyone actually yields more from vert than a well done horizantal grow. Its all "next run I'll do this, once I've sorted bla blah blah out" etc

looking great mate, wishing you a good harvest

 

[Hosttrevor]

The bucket with the yellow top is the "drain". Water levels itself so as the bucket bottoms fill with water, so does the drain bucket. I used to run it on a timer that would come on exactly when the feed pump would and shut off 10 minutes AFTER the feed shuts off, to account for dripping. The drain pump pumps the waste outside through a hole I drilled in the wall. The only maintenance for me is filling the rez when it's empty, the drain system is full auto. And i can easily slide the buckets around enough to get in there, OR i could simply pull out the inner bucket and set it somewheres.
Now I built a float switch system that automatically kicks on the drains pump. Easy peasy brother.
You've certainly got a green thumb though, your plants are beautiful!

PS, The white pvc against the wall is my feed line, got drip tubing coming out of it and staked to the buckets.

Thanks for the green thumbs up

Nice set up there mate, I do appreciate the ease of use of your system.

Yeah its a bit of a drag, but they do hold 35ltr each and takes an hour or so to syphon them all roughly once a week. There's always something to do down there or when I shift my central row of tanks to the left I can be tending the tops whilst they drain off. I can get to drain all tanks by going down just one aisle.

I've thought of linking all the pots up, but I want to be able to see how much run off there is from each plant to keep them really dialed in, and its a good early warning sign of any dripper blocking or starting to block, and by linking them all to each other I'd lose that. That's also why I chose something translucent, so I could see run off levels.

I do agree though, it could be easier. I'll probably have to sort something easier out so I can leave it to someone to sort out if I want to get away for more than a few days. Vert growing would be a lot easier in that respect.

OG_TGR, yield, vert vs standard, given a strain that likes to be trained? Oh and something else I asked you above, but being stoned on some very fine homemade hash, I can't remember what it was now Edit :- Oh yeah bro, how are the Smart pots for drainage at the bottom, where they're sat on (?) surface?







Trev

 

[Hosttrevor]

I'd think very carefully about going vert, if it aint broke dont fix it and you are adding a whole host of variables. Be wary of the hype in the vert forum, I've studied these forums carefully for years and hardly anyone actually yields more from vert than a well done horizantal grow. Its all "next run I'll do this, once I've sorted bla blah blah out" etc

looking great mate, wishing you a good harvest

Yeah I know what you're saying, I've got this down pretty good, trained almost like a scrog to fill the area. I've scrogged before though and like the idea, but mine was a huge 2m x3m plus screen and a bitch to work with. I'm not looking for bigger yields from vert but ease of gardening, but I certainly don't want to drop my yields either. I haven't quite maxed out this room yet, I always get 3 or 4 runty plants from a room with this strain, predictably so. But the good ones. . . . wow, they do well. I'd be better having twice the cuts to choose from, but that ups plant numbers significantly. I'd love to get a room like this full of the top plants.

Trev

 

[OG_TGR]

how are the Smart pots for drainage at the bottom, where they're sat on (?) surface?

My bad man, I could have swore that I replied to you on that one. They are fine as long as you supply drainage. Everything I’ve had them in has either had raised ridges or in this case, rings.
I also add a layer or hydroton or pearlite in the bottom of the pot. In these particular saucers, I’ll put a layer of medium in the saucer, and the pots on top of it.

 

[madalasatori]

I do agree though, it could be easier. I'll probably have to sort something easier out so I can leave it to someone to sort out if I want to get away for more than a few days. Vert growing would be a lot easier in that respect.

This is where I think vert is actually more difficult, there is more canopy managment involved (mainly trimming the inner branches to prevent larf) and every strain responds different so its a case of trial and error which will take 3 or 4 runs to fine tune.