3 Gallon Smarties and Watering?

[MountainBudz]

I'm having trouble again with watering, if some of you read my previous posts long ago. It was corrected and has been fine ever since, until last night I went and checked on the girls. The ones I watered the night before had pretty droopy leaves. For the last two weeks, I have been giving them a gallon of water each (pretty big plants in three gallon pots that have been flowering for over a week now). I only water the sides and not the center of the container, I get about 25% runoff sometimes a bit less...

Now when I water these, the pots are almost extremely light, soil a bit crunchy, I do not see how it could be over watering... The runoff goes to waste as well. I can water them like this and within 2 days (3 at the most) they are bone dry again, so they must be drinking well. I've noticed even the ones I didn't water was slightly droopy as well last night. Temps are between 75-80 degrees at the most and are usually stable at 75-76... Humidity stays around 30%. The light is about 20-24 inches from top of canopy (1000 watts). Have been feeding quarter strength nutes with every watering of Sensi Bloom A&B oh perfect and the leaves are very healthy, no discoloring, spotting, signs of nitrogen deficiency or anything... What the hell could be happening here?

Could airflow be the cause? I'm running a 440cfm fan in the 4x4 tent nd air flow is very good, do not have an oscilating or added air movement fan added to room yet but do not see that causing the problem either. All vents are open in the bottom of tent. I have a one gallon jug of sugar/water/yeast mixture sitting below each plant as well for added c02 supplementation that is bubbling like crazy. I know c02 should be released above the canopy, but that is in a sealed room. Since the exhaust is above the canopy pulling 440*cfm, I figure i'd be better off placing them below the canopy so the plants could absorb what little is actually being pulled upwards.

Thanks, MBz......

 

[thcrefugee]

not fully sure of the exact question.. but it sounds like the plants are a little droopy between waterings? not quite that bamboo shoot grassy praying look?
perhaps the humidity is kinda low, try bumping to 40-60%.. til buds start to set up

 

[growingcrazy]

I don't see what medium you are in. I am going to assume a peat based mix of some kind.

This is what I am gathering here. You are watering 1 gallon to 25% runoff and next day plants are droopy, looking like over watering?

First, when the plants are dry and you believe they are ready to be watered, pick one up and touch the bottom of the pot in the center. Is it wet or dry?

If its bone dry, put a saucer under one pot and water with your gallon, come back in a half hour and see if its all been absorbed. If so give it some more.

If it it still soaked on the bottom, raise a pot to allow some circulation underneath to get a more even distribution of moisture in the smarty.

Here are my thoughts on it.. Watering only the sides of the pots allows water to runoff quickly instead of being absorbed. Especially in a really dry peat based medium. This would allow the center root mass to dry way more than the outside of the pot.

I have to either water extremely slowly or use a saucer under my 7 gallons to get a good even watering in the container.

Hope this helps!

Peace
GC

 

[MrBungle]

Alright MountainBUDZ I've been quiet for a few days observing.....
I just gotta say something.... you gotta loosen up a lil bit man.... dont take everything you read as bible..... No one is going to give you the exact answer you are looking for....
you have it within your world, just gotta find it.... you are giving us the info you need to be soaking in and turning into your own answer....if its dry in the middle then water the middle... if its wet in the middle but dry on the outsides then focus on the outsides.....

when it was suggested to focus on the outsides, that was just for you to get out of your problem....even though it was unwritten, The guy who wrote it ( me i think) assumed you would water the middle when it dried out....

We are here trying to help you out.... Not trying to write a complete book on the do's and don'ts of growing.... We assume you have some knowledge of what you are doing, an can pick up on some things without coaching

 

[Mikell]

I hate to say it, but get one of those shite moisture meters. Use it once and throw away (bad mojo to use crappy instruments).

Like mentioned above, I think the centre of your rootball is dry.

 

[MountainBudz]

not fully sure of the exact question.. but it sounds like the plants are a little droopy between waterings? not quite that bamboo shoot grassy praying look?
perhaps the humidity is kinda low, try bumping to 40-60%.. til buds start to set up

You thc, are more than likely right on the money as I am sure I am watering correctly. My humidity has been running between 18 to 30% at tops. I can see it in the leaves as well after doing some further investigation. Thanks for helping bro.

 

[MountainBudz]

Alright MountainBUDZ I've been quiet for a few days observing.....
I just gotta say something.... you gotta loosen up a lil bit man.... dont take everything you read as bible..... No one is going to give you the exact answer you are looking for....
you have it within your world, just gotta find it.... you are giving us the info you need to be soaking in and turning into your own answer....if its dry in the middle then water the middle... if its wet in the middle but dry on the outsides then focus on the outsides.....

when it was suggested to focus on the outsides, that was just for you to get out of your problem....even though it was unwritten, The guy who wrote it ( me i think) assumed you would water the middle when it dried out....

We are here trying to help you out.... Not trying to write a complete book on the do's and don'ts of growing.... We assume you have some knowledge of what you are doing, an can pick up on some things without coaching

It is not dry in the center Bungle... These are not your typical short/squat "wide" smart pots. These are tall, very slim. When watering the edges inside the container it is enough to soak the mix thoroughly and evenly..... I also do this to wash excess salts that build within the materials. Works well my friend, i've been experimenting sometime now.

And what book am I going or (growing) by? I don't use that route, that's why I ask questions. All my years of growing had been learned first hand experience since I was a child. Don't get me wrong, every now and then it is okay to read some articles or look up info, but I like learning my own thing through trial and error. And I enjoy asking questions from time to time and exchanging info/help, I find it soothing to discuss matters.. Bro, i've not used a ph pen, ec/ppm meter or any kind of meter of any form in 15 years if that tells you anything lol. I did try ph test strips and what a waste of money that was...

Relax and toke'a J bro....

By the way, i'm gonna post up (try to) some pics of the girls tonight, you need to check them out.... they have come a LONG way and lookin beautiful. Trees in those little pots bro!

Thanks for the help and advice everyone!

 

[MountainBudz]

And brother i'm far from needing a "coach". I have seen almost every high repped experienced member on these forums asking questions and /or having problems with their grows at one time. What do you think the forum is? Sharing and discussing cannabis cultivation information etc etc... Where are we on the board? This is the [ Cannabis Infirmary ] section bro. Exactly what its for.....

Don't take me the wrong way, no hard feelings man... But I do have 15 years experience off and on, about 4 years indoor.. I don't need someone lecturing me on that matter. If I were a newby needing coaching you would have spotted this thread in the (newby or new grower) section, but that is not the case here.

Please don't take me the wrong way, for I am not intending it to be...

 

[EastBayGrower]

Alright MountainBUDZ I've been quiet for a few days observing.....
I just gotta say something.... you gotta loosen up a lil bit man.... dont take everything you read as bible..... No one is going to give you the exact answer you are looking for....
you have it within your world, just gotta find it.... you are giving us the info you need to be soaking in and turning into your own answer....if its dry in the middle then water the middle... if its wet in the middle but dry on the outsides then focus on the outsides.....

when it was suggested to focus on the outsides, that was just for you to get out of your problem....even though it was unwritten, The guy who wrote it ( me i think) assumed you would water the middle when it dried out....

We are here trying to help you out.... Not trying to write a complete book on the do's and don'ts of growing.... We assume you have some knowledge of what you are doing, an can pick up on some things without coaching

dude this guy is icmags new attention whore... just dont respond if it bothers you, thats what i do (most of the time)...

and the "book" metaphor went totally over his head, some peopl you can lead to water.. you know///

i grow in 3gal smart pots too, and honestly it soudns like your plants are routbound and thirsty, or whatever, idc

 

[Bubbamaniac]

I'm a bit confused after watering the plants droop? I've noticed sometimes after a heavy watering plants droop slightly, but by the next day they are perked up and happy, as long as they are growing steadily, and development is on time I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Mikell]

You answered your own question re: heavy watering.

 

[MountainBudz]

Sorry I have not updated this thread... But, I am pretty positive that I have found out what was causing this issue..

A large root system in a 3 gallon container ='s not exactly root bound plants but a very dense mass within the container which is needing more than it can actually hold. Being fabric containers, they dry out relatively quickly. And I am saying they are not exactly root bound because the containers are doing their job keeping the roots pruned, there is just a large volume of roots.

Here is what I done and it worked:

I usually place each container one at time (very tedious and time consuming!) in a small plastic tote and water each one with a little over one gallon of water. Once I water thoroughly, I lift the containers up above the tote and allow the water to drain and drip until there is no dripping or run off present. Then I sort of squeeze even more excess water out of the bottom of the pots.... Then they go back into the tent, then on to the next one... Keep in mind I get A LOT of runoff doing this...

Well, I went and purchased some hard plastic party plates at wal-mart for around a buck each which is very cheap compared to the actual plant trays/liners you can find online and placed these below the plants and watered them as usual, same amount of water/feed... [Wait, i'm getting ahead of a step!] lol... I put the plants in that same tote FIRST, then water with the same amount as usual, there is a little runoff starting to pick up right after the watering, I discard that first little gush of water which actually isn't a whole lot, maybe 5-10% and then set the plants in those plastic trays, place back beneath the lights and let them sit in the trays for a good 3-4 hours, sometimes longer and there was my fix! They were needing more water than I could simply provide by watering with the (drain to waste) method... Now all leaves are up and perky and even the bud's seem to be filling in more vigorously...

Thanks all, for stopping by with you brilliant knowledge, that is what friends are for, virtually or realistically... To be there when you need them.

MBz....

 

[MountainBudz]

You answered your own question re: heavy watering.

Lol....

 

[MountainBudz]

I'm a bit confused after watering the plants droop? I've noticed sometimes after a heavy watering plants droop slightly, but by the next day they are perked up and happy, as long as they are growing steadily, and development is on time I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[SamsonsRiddle]

smart pots will be the death of me

smart pots will be the death of me

I have one in a 2 gallon smart pot and started having similar symptoms (plus deficiencies, yay!) and found out the same thing. I knew once i started seeing the fans v'ing more than usual - like they were trying to direct rain to the roots.

I've never tried watering your way, but i'm not using "soil" rather pro mix bx with added perlite and vermiculite. I have to water twice a day at 5 weeks into flower. Once when she wakes up I give her a little sip of 10oz of a little high ppm feed (320 on .5 scale), then at about 4 hours in I give a full drink that brings about 5% runoff at her normal feed level (290 on .5 scale). About 30 mins later, i give another normal feed with about 15-20 oz which allows a good amount of runoff. This is the only way that has worked for my situation in the medium i'm using.

I don't know if i was typing this to help or to just get it out there. either way

 

[MountainBudz]

I have one in a 2 gallon smart pot and started having similar symptoms (plus deficiencies, yay!) and found out the same thing. I knew once i started seeing the fans v'ing more than usual - like they were trying to direct rain to the roots.

I've never tried watering your way, but i'm not using "soil" rather pro mix bx with added perlite and vermiculite. I have to water twice a day at 5 weeks into flower. Once when she wakes up I give her a little sip of 10oz of a little high ppm feed (320 on .5 scale), then at about 4 hours in I give a full drink that brings about 5% runoff at her normal feed level (290 on .5 scale). About 30 mins later, i give another normal feed with about 15-20 oz which allows a good amount of runoff. This is the only way that has worked for my situation in the medium i'm using.

I don't know if i was typing this to help or to just get it out there. either way

Interesting method you are using there... I don't use soil either, i'm promix bx as well with lots of added perlite. No vermiculite though...

 

[SamsonsRiddle]

The vermiculite helps even out the texture and keep the promix from separating from the side of the pot as it dries.

I'm not using smart pots ever again unless i have a flood table. They've been a huge hassle for me.

 

[LyryC]

I hate to say it, but get one of those shite moisture meters. Use it once and throw away (bad mojo to use crappy instruments).

Like mentioned above, I think the centre of your rootball is dry.

This very bad advice as its very inefficient and its impact on our world and environment.

until we make plastic items from hemp, i advise you don't waste so much.

 

[Mikell]

Give me a fuckin' break.

This is a growers forum, not some vagina monologue biodynamic vegan PC ecowarrior paradise.

He wanted a resolution to his issue, I gave him one. I'm not advocating everyone religiously buy and throw away shitty moisture meters.

Now kindly unload that wheelbarrow load of sand from your overly sensitive gaping hole, if possible.

 

[chronosync]

I hate to say it, but get one of those shite moisture meters. Use it once and throw away (bad mojo to use crappy instruments).

Like mentioned above, I think the centre of your rootball is dry.

Whatever works, ill use small wooden stakes to fluff up and even out the top of the medium and stick it right down into the roots. After awhile you get a feel for how wet it is down there.

I have a question though, why does it seem like there are alot of people having trouble with smartpots? And how does the center of a rootball stay dry?

Im getting very close to my first harvest and as much as i cant wait to pick my flowers im dying to disect my roots too.