InjectTruth
Active member
darthvapor said:
Am I reading this wrong? 370 x 2 = 740. 740 > 450
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3/600's or 2/1000's = Best Yielding Set-Up
- Thread starter Naturally
- Start date
Am I reading this wrong? 370 x 2 = 740. 740 > 450
darthvapor
Active member
me too. looking at too many numbers
Brightshadow
Member
I will use 600 insted of 1000 any day !!
teddynugent
Member
darthvapor - I kind of agree with you. Photosynthetically active radiation (PAR) is important, but you cannot say that a bulb is better than another just because of PAR watts. The light intensity/lumens, color spectrum & type of bulb (MH, HPS or the combination bulbs w/both a HPS filament & MH filament build/enclosed in the same bulb etc) all play a part in a bulbs quality overall & in the bud characteristics & potency(or quality). All these things combined is what determines how good the end product is. Its all the different specifications/features(etc etc) combined that make a bulbs quality
For example, a 430watt HPS bulb has higher PAR watts than any 600watt bulb. But, just because the 430 has higher PAR watts doesnt mean its going to give better results.
What do you think is going to yield more? And which do you think will have thicker buds? A plant grown under a 430wt. light, or a plant grown under a 600wt. light?
So the bulb wattage and how many lumens it produces does matter for sure.
Plus even though a 1000 watt light has the highest PAR watts doesnt mean it produces the best buds.
There are trade-offs for each watt light(and whether its HPS or MH). For ex.-buds grown under 1000wt lights usually always have less crystals covering the buds because of the heat. They get burnt off, even when the lights are air-cooled. So you get some nice big fat/dense buds, and even though they definitely still get frosty & probably produce just as frosty buds, because of the intensity of a 1000wt. light the end product isnt as frosty as the lower watt 43wt light (and 600wt lights most times too)
A 430wt. HPS light will definitely produce frosty crystal coated buds that will even ooze out sticky resin that will cover the buds.
The yield from a 430wt light is going to be less than a 1000wt. But, the finished buds from the 430 are much stickier, and more frosty. Every time Ive used my 430HPS, I yielded buds that were totally coated in crystals and were also so sticky that they'd stick to anything. I stuck a bud on the wall and it stayed glued there for a good week before I finally peeled it off. Oh man, and the taste of the pot was just amazing.
That 430wt light has produced the most potent pot that ive ever grown. I even ran clones from the same mother using both lights. 10 under the 1000 and 10 under the 430 (in seperate rooms using the same nutrient, water co2, temps etc.) The only difference was the 2 different watt bulbs
I've done this 4 times now, 2 times using the same mother plant and strain (and the 430 won both times). Then 2 more times, this time using a different strain each time.
So I tried it on 3 different strains(even running the same test twice on the same strain.
All 4 times, the taste, appearance, bag appeal and smell were better from the 430wt light. And all 4 times, the quality/potency of the bud were better from the 430wt set-up.
I had a total of 6 people(including me) try the buds on all 4 tests. I never said which was grown under which light.
All 5 picked the buds from the 430wt set-up all 4 times.
Anyway, my point is that, PAR does matter, but it is not the proper way to pick which bulb is the best. Not enough is known about HID lights and how to produce the best light.
There also isnt really a very good system for comparing different bulbs & their quality.
PAR watts is just the measurement system for making an educated guess on how to compare bulb qualities.
The PAR rating of a bulb does not designate the quality of a bulb. The way Par is measured is not all that accurate. Par is measured on the entire range of the wavelength a bulb gives out. But, they dont know what part of the spectrum in that wavelength the plant can actually use. So even if a bulb has a higher PAR wattage, that doesnt mean the plant can actually even use all the PAR watts the bulb produces.
PAR isn't everything. For example, a 430 watt light has more PAR watts than any 600 watt ligt Ive seen on the market.
Does that mean that two 430 watt lights would grow a better/bigger (etc.) crop of plants than the same plants grown under the best 60 watt lights on the market? The 2 430wt. lights still have a higher PAR watts total than the 2 best 600 watt lights/bulbs.
Basically, the wattage of the light is what determines your final product. If you want huge yields, get 1000wt HPS, If you want a combo of the best of both worlds, get a 600 HPS. If you want some very resinous buds, get a 430wt HPS.
And if you want to give your plants the absolute best lighting, use MH and HPS lights from start to finish.
ANyway, thats just from my experience over these past 10 years or so
For example, a 430watt HPS bulb has higher PAR watts than any 600watt bulb. But, just because the 430 has higher PAR watts doesnt mean its going to give better results.
What do you think is going to yield more? And which do you think will have thicker buds? A plant grown under a 430wt. light, or a plant grown under a 600wt. light?
So the bulb wattage and how many lumens it produces does matter for sure.
Plus even though a 1000 watt light has the highest PAR watts doesnt mean it produces the best buds.
There are trade-offs for each watt light(and whether its HPS or MH). For ex.-buds grown under 1000wt lights usually always have less crystals covering the buds because of the heat. They get burnt off, even when the lights are air-cooled. So you get some nice big fat/dense buds, and even though they definitely still get frosty & probably produce just as frosty buds, because of the intensity of a 1000wt. light the end product isnt as frosty as the lower watt 43wt light (and 600wt lights most times too)
A 430wt. HPS light will definitely produce frosty crystal coated buds that will even ooze out sticky resin that will cover the buds.
The yield from a 430wt light is going to be less than a 1000wt. But, the finished buds from the 430 are much stickier, and more frosty. Every time Ive used my 430HPS, I yielded buds that were totally coated in crystals and were also so sticky that they'd stick to anything. I stuck a bud on the wall and it stayed glued there for a good week before I finally peeled it off. Oh man, and the taste of the pot was just amazing.
That 430wt light has produced the most potent pot that ive ever grown. I even ran clones from the same mother using both lights. 10 under the 1000 and 10 under the 430 (in seperate rooms using the same nutrient, water co2, temps etc.) The only difference was the 2 different watt bulbs
I've done this 4 times now, 2 times using the same mother plant and strain (and the 430 won both times). Then 2 more times, this time using a different strain each time.
So I tried it on 3 different strains(even running the same test twice on the same strain.
All 4 times, the taste, appearance, bag appeal and smell were better from the 430wt light. And all 4 times, the quality/potency of the bud were better from the 430wt set-up.
I had a total of 6 people(including me) try the buds on all 4 tests. I never said which was grown under which light.
All 5 picked the buds from the 430wt set-up all 4 times.
Anyway, my point is that, PAR does matter, but it is not the proper way to pick which bulb is the best. Not enough is known about HID lights and how to produce the best light.
There also isnt really a very good system for comparing different bulbs & their quality.
PAR watts is just the measurement system for making an educated guess on how to compare bulb qualities.
The PAR rating of a bulb does not designate the quality of a bulb. The way Par is measured is not all that accurate. Par is measured on the entire range of the wavelength a bulb gives out. But, they dont know what part of the spectrum in that wavelength the plant can actually use. So even if a bulb has a higher PAR wattage, that doesnt mean the plant can actually even use all the PAR watts the bulb produces.
PAR isn't everything. For example, a 430 watt light has more PAR watts than any 600 watt ligt Ive seen on the market.
Does that mean that two 430 watt lights would grow a better/bigger (etc.) crop of plants than the same plants grown under the best 60 watt lights on the market? The 2 430wt. lights still have a higher PAR watts total than the 2 best 600 watt lights/bulbs.
Basically, the wattage of the light is what determines your final product. If you want huge yields, get 1000wt HPS, If you want a combo of the best of both worlds, get a 600 HPS. If you want some very resinous buds, get a 430wt HPS.
And if you want to give your plants the absolute best lighting, use MH and HPS lights from start to finish.
ANyway, thats just from my experience over these past 10 years or so
darthvapor
Active member
thanks for the info nuge. So what bulbs do you run? whats been the best set-up in your experience thus far?
legalizekindtok
Member
all depends on your taste... personally after using both i have to say the 1k's penetrate better... 
teddynugent
Member
As for lighting your grow room, I personally think that the best set-up is to use both HPS and MH lights together during veg and bloom. I figure that running a full spectrum of light the whole time indoor is about as close as you can get to growing under the sun outdoors.
The closer you can get to the light from the sun, the better right? I figure mother nature knows what she's doing, and though the spectrum of the suns light changes some through-out the season, its still always giving the plants a full spectrum of light.
I've tried lots of different ways, but I get the best results by first starting the seedlings under a bunch of floro's. Once they get a bit bigger, I move them into the aeroponic machine and run both MH and HPS all the way until harvest.
I was usually running 2 1000wt. HPS horizontal hoods with 1 1000wt. MH light in the middle using a reflector that spreads the light out over a wider space.
But, now that they have those new 1000wt. bulbs that have a 600wt. HPS + a 400wt. MH filament in the same bulb, I want to run 3 of those 1000 wt bulbs in nice horizontal air-cooled hoods.
The closer you can get to the light from the sun, the better right? I figure mother nature knows what she's doing, and though the spectrum of the suns light changes some through-out the season, its still always giving the plants a full spectrum of light.
I've tried lots of different ways, but I get the best results by first starting the seedlings under a bunch of floro's. Once they get a bit bigger, I move them into the aeroponic machine and run both MH and HPS all the way until harvest.
I was usually running 2 1000wt. HPS horizontal hoods with 1 1000wt. MH light in the middle using a reflector that spreads the light out over a wider space.
But, now that they have those new 1000wt. bulbs that have a 600wt. HPS + a 400wt. MH filament in the same bulb, I want to run 3 of those 1000 wt bulbs in nice horizontal air-cooled hoods.
teddynugent
Member
I'm actually not 100% sure what you mean by CMH. Is that a MH conversion bulb? Or is it a new type of light available?
From what I know of the lighting options available, I think that the new 1000wt. Bulbs with 600wts of HPS & 400wts of MH light combined together into one 1000wt bulb sounds like a perfect light system for growing the plants from the time you start the veg cycle under HID lighting all the way until the plants are ready for harvest.
Like I said, I always start my seedlings or newly taken clones under a good mix of flourescent lighting. I always start the delicate new plants under about 240wts. - 320wts. of a combo of floro bulbs, using a mix of mostly cool white & daylight bulbs, with a couple warm bulbs used too.
I've found tat the delicate new plants seem to always root the best for me and also grow very compact and bushy (I get barely any stretch at all).
Then once they're root systems are looking nice and strong (filling the whole rockwool cube w/roots growing out all sides), then i'll move them into the aeroponic machine and under the HID lights.
I'll take some pics of some seeds I just started about 2 weeks ago under only floro lights so you can see what I'm talking about when I say how nice and tight internode spacing is.
These sees I just started are allready on or almost on their 4th real sets of leaves and how there is noi space/stretch to them at all.
If at all possible, I make sure and use both MH and HPS lights, with the MH's in the horizontal reflectors that put out the light over each 4ft. x 4ft. section of my aero machine. And I'll put the HPS in the middle into the vertizontal (or similar type) reflector, so the HPS light is spread out over the whole 8' x 4' area of the plants.
So, this way the MH light is focused and more intense over each 4'x4' section & the HPS still gives a good amount of light to all the plants (just not as intense as the MH light)
Then for the bloom cycle, I reverse it. I put 2 1000wt. HPS bulbs in the horizontal reflectors, and a 1000wt. MH in the vertizontal reflector in the middle.
This way, the plants are getting a full spectrum of light the whole grow cycle, but get much more intense MH light over them when in veg. and more HPS light in bloom.
I've tried using MH for veg and HPS for bloom. But, doing it the way I described above has consistently produced higher yields and better looking, tasting buds that seem to be more potent (I dunno if they actually are more potent or not....but everyone who's smoked my pot agrees that the same strains Ive grown over and over were better when I ised both types of lights from start to finish). For me, I get tighter, more resin coated buds that just look,taste and smoke better than all the times I used MH in veg and HPS in bloom. The buds always look better bagged up(have better bag appeal) as well.
So thats why I think that these new bulbs that would be giving the plants a full & more intense, evenly distributed full spectrum of light, and the fact that I could run 3 horizontal hoods which would put even more light on the plants (compared to a china-hat style hood that spreads the light out over such a large area) I would think would produce even better results than I get currently.
I'm gonna look into the details of what a CMH is exactly + its advantages over the system I use.
Please if someone can give me some info on why this style light would be a better choice, PLEASE explain.
I'm all ears and I am always open to new and better ways to grow.
Thanks,
-Teddy
From what I know of the lighting options available, I think that the new 1000wt. Bulbs with 600wts of HPS & 400wts of MH light combined together into one 1000wt bulb sounds like a perfect light system for growing the plants from the time you start the veg cycle under HID lighting all the way until the plants are ready for harvest.
Like I said, I always start my seedlings or newly taken clones under a good mix of flourescent lighting. I always start the delicate new plants under about 240wts. - 320wts. of a combo of floro bulbs, using a mix of mostly cool white & daylight bulbs, with a couple warm bulbs used too.
I've found tat the delicate new plants seem to always root the best for me and also grow very compact and bushy (I get barely any stretch at all).
Then once they're root systems are looking nice and strong (filling the whole rockwool cube w/roots growing out all sides), then i'll move them into the aeroponic machine and under the HID lights.
I'll take some pics of some seeds I just started about 2 weeks ago under only floro lights so you can see what I'm talking about when I say how nice and tight internode spacing is.
These sees I just started are allready on or almost on their 4th real sets of leaves and how there is noi space/stretch to them at all.
If at all possible, I make sure and use both MH and HPS lights, with the MH's in the horizontal reflectors that put out the light over each 4ft. x 4ft. section of my aero machine. And I'll put the HPS in the middle into the vertizontal (or similar type) reflector, so the HPS light is spread out over the whole 8' x 4' area of the plants.
So, this way the MH light is focused and more intense over each 4'x4' section & the HPS still gives a good amount of light to all the plants (just not as intense as the MH light)
Then for the bloom cycle, I reverse it. I put 2 1000wt. HPS bulbs in the horizontal reflectors, and a 1000wt. MH in the vertizontal reflector in the middle.
This way, the plants are getting a full spectrum of light the whole grow cycle, but get much more intense MH light over them when in veg. and more HPS light in bloom.
I've tried using MH for veg and HPS for bloom. But, doing it the way I described above has consistently produced higher yields and better looking, tasting buds that seem to be more potent (I dunno if they actually are more potent or not....but everyone who's smoked my pot agrees that the same strains Ive grown over and over were better when I ised both types of lights from start to finish). For me, I get tighter, more resin coated buds that just look,taste and smoke better than all the times I used MH in veg and HPS in bloom. The buds always look better bagged up(have better bag appeal) as well.
So thats why I think that these new bulbs that would be giving the plants a full & more intense, evenly distributed full spectrum of light, and the fact that I could run 3 horizontal hoods which would put even more light on the plants (compared to a china-hat style hood that spreads the light out over such a large area) I would think would produce even better results than I get currently.
I'm gonna look into the details of what a CMH is exactly + its advantages over the system I use.
Please if someone can give me some info on why this style light would be a better choice, PLEASE explain.
I'm all ears and I am always open to new and better ways to grow.
Thanks,
-Teddy
Naturally
Member
Hempstress
Member
One of your criteria should be how tall you plan on growing your plants. The 1000s are going to penetrate a lot deeper than the 600s.
darthvapor
Active member
only sligthly mor as far as penetration with the 1000 because you can hang the 600's lower. even more so if you air cool. plus 1000 are a bitch to cool in the summer time here in cali.
