2nd hand smoke = Bullshit

[Weird]

^^^ this
The more they get in my face and make me out to be Charles Manson, for enjoying a ciggie, the more militant I get. Can't help it, I've always been that way. If I was dangling from a great height, and you told me to give you my hand, I would probably fall to my death rather than "Do as I am told".

you'll show them

 

[Harry Gypsna]

you'll show them

Does Ziggy ever jam good with you and Gilly?

EDIT
At least one person appreciated the light hearted David Bowie reference.

 

[Weird]

if someone else has pay a price for you to get off your a sick sorry piece of shit

 

[BlueBlazer]

I'm a long time cigarette smoker (about 40 years). Right from the get go I smoked very heavily. You probably don't know anyone that smokes more than me, unless they don't sleep. I have never believed the second hand smoke hysteria. I saw it for what it was. A way to mobilize the apathetic non-smokers and turn smokers into some kind of social fiend. While I don't like the restrictions that I now live with, I admit that smokers have no one to blame but themselves (collectively). Even though I smoke heavily, I have always been respectful of non-smokers in my vicinity if they asked me not to smoke. I never smoked in a non-smokers house. I have always field stripped my butts and disposed of them in the trash or ash trays provided instead of chucking them on the street. Problem is, I'm in a minority. Shitty smoker behavior gets on my nerves and I'm a smoking champion. How irritating must it be for the non-smokers?

 

[Harry Gypsna]

if someone else has pay a price for you to get off your a sick sorry piece of shit

But the claim that anyone is paying a price is bullshit.

As for sick sorry piece of shit...I invoke the playground standard. And I retort: Goest thou to hell, and swiftly please, and there may Azmodaeus himself suckle from your diseased teat.
Please note the example of what I was saying about making out like I'm Charles Manson


Do you own a car Weird?
If someone else has to pay the price for you to enjoy easy travel...........

 

[Hydrosun]

But the claim that anyone is paying a price is bullshit.

As for sick sorry piece of shit...I invoke the playground standard. And I retort: Goest thou to hell, and swiftly please, and there may Azmodaeus himself suckle from your diseased teat.
Please note the example of what I was saying about making out like I'm Charles Manson


Do you own a car Weird?
If someone else has to pay the price for you to enjoy easy travel...........

You just argued it both ways. You say any claims of 2nd hand smoke harm is BS, and then you turn around and say driving a car makes others pay a price.

We all pay a price for living next to other humans. Some have BO, some are too perfumed, some have a mouth like a sewer and the vocabulary of a sailor.

The "tell other people what to do crowd" is on top of all these issues. It is sad to see how intolerant these lazy parasites can be.

The problem exists deeply even in this community. We see do gooders all the time tell us that we should only grow so many plants, and we should use only so much square footage, and we should give it away free to the parasites because it would be immoral to be paid for our work.

ANYTHING a person does on their own property that doesn't harm ANYTHING off their property is their own fucking business.

It is also right for a property owner to not allow eating of shit smelling food or shit smelling cigs or shit smelling BO or even sweet smelling cannabis to be on his property.

So now back to property owners..... You are a renter, not an owner, and if the terms of your rental agreement require a smoke free environment when the landlord's agent is making repairs, then that is the contract you agreed to. You should be a man put your cig out, become an owner and do whatever the hell you want on your land.

I'd never rent to someone who would smoke cigs in my house, because I don't like the smell or required clean up. I have no problem renting to growers who smoke cigs if they agree to not smoke cigs in my house. As for BO, bad smelling foods, and perfumes I don't give a shit. Some owners won't even rent to a person who owns a cat or dog. Freedom of choice and freedom to contract is the moral fabric of an ethical society.

Honor your agreements and keep you head held high.

 

[Harry Gypsna]

You just argued it both ways. You say any claims of 2nd hand smoke harm is BS, and then you turn around and say driving a car makes others pay a price.

We all pay a price for living next to other humans. Some have BO, some are too perfumed, some have a mouth like a sewer and the vocabulary of a sailor.

The "tell other people what to do crowd" is on top of all these issues. It is sad to see how intolerant these lazy parasites can be.

The problem exists deeply even in this community. We see do gooders all the time tell us that we should only grow so many plants, and we should use only so much square footage, and we should give it away free to the parasites because it would be immoral to be paid for our work.

ANYTHING a person does on their own property that doesn't harm ANYTHING off their property is their own fucking business.

It is also right for a property owner to not allow eating of shit smelling food or shit smelling cigs or shit smelling BO or even sweet smelling cannabis to be on his property.

So now back to property owners..... You are a renter, not an owner, and if the terms of your rental agreement require a smoke free environment when the landlord's agent is making repairs, then that is the contract you agreed to. You should be a man put your cig out, become an owner and do whatever the hell you want on your land.

I'd never rent to someone who would smoke cigs in my house, because I don't like the smell or required clean up. I have no problem renting to growers who smoke cigs if they agree to not smoke cigs in my house. As for BO, bad smelling foods, and perfumes I don't give a shit. Some owners won't even rent to a person who owns a cat or dog. Freedom of choice and freedom to contract is the moral fabric of an ethical society.

Honor your agreements and keep you head held high.

I was being a bit childish there...
Regarding rentals, I wouldn't ever rent somewhere I couldn't sit in front of the telly with a cuppa and a ciggie, but it's your property and for you to decide.
This is one of my main objections, why can't places decide for themselves whether to allow smoking. I have no problem with for example rules regarding the size of a place which allows smoking, preventing it in really small spaces, or requiring top draw extraction systems. I am happy to not smoke where the owner or person in charge doesn't want it. But when it extends to public places outdoors, it is ridiculous. Even in outdoor spaces, I have no problem if the owner doesn't want smoking(not counting public space owned by taxpayers, as smokers are taxpayers, in fact the average smoker pays much more tax than his non smoking counterpart.), but to mandate it by law, based upon pretty much fuck all evidence, or indeed evidence the other way being disregarded just pisses me off.
Now NY is banning use of E-cigs, not because of any proven risk, but because it looks like smoking and smoking is to be de-normalised, or stigmatised. Many members of the EU parliament feel the same way, ideology before facts.

Edited to add. My tenancy agreement says nothing about smoking when their people come around. It is simply a rule the council has made.

 

[Hydrosun]

but to mandate it by law, based upon pretty much fuck all evidence, or indeed evidence the other way being disregarded just pisses me off.
Now NY is banning use of E-cigs, not because of any proven risk, but because it looks like smoking and smoking is to be de-normalised, or stigmatised. Many members of the EU parliament feel the same way, ideology before facts.

Welcome to my world, cannabis is banned and disparaged and the evidence against it is well, fuck all.

NYC is trying to out Nazi CA banning soda over 16oz, not for harm to others but because fatties aren't the mayors chosen body style.

All Nazis desire ideology before facts. In most cities I can't drink a beer in the park legally or smoke a bowl of cannabis, because god forbid a kid sees me have fun and decide to emulate my vices.

For these and many other reasons I advocate civil disobedience and NO SNITCHING. I've smoked cannabis in many a public place and never had anyone say BOO. If they make eye contact I offer them a hit and we all go about our way. In this regard I think it is easier to be a cannabis smoker in the Western USA than a cig smoker.

It seems the anti smoking nazis are just anti cig smoking, anyway if I can't legally smoke cannabis on public lands then neither can the marlbro man.

I don't make the laws, but I am smart enough to only follow them if they are consistent with my moral compos.

 

[HempKat]

it's not the tobacco or nicotine that cause cancer, it's the by-products of the combustion process that creates the smoke (tars, arsen etc), the same compounds i'll venture are present in pot smoke.

I started when i was 16 - hell, my childhood doctor was a chain smoker so that seemed to serve as an indication of it's relative safety back then (btw he died of a heart attack in his early 50s).

I agree that non smokers can be a bit rabid about their position in a debate on the effects of smoking cigarettes however there were a couple of things you said that I wanted to address. By the way, not that it should matter but I'm a smoker.

While you are absolutely correct that it's the combustion process that creates the carcinogens leading to cancer I'd venture that you are wrong about the same compounds found in cigarettes being found in pot. Pot is for the most part all natural. Tobacco while also for the most part all natural has many things added to it to alter it's properties, things such as ammonia, flavor enhancers, fire retardants, etc. Perhaps if marijuana ever becomes a corporate product like cigarettes it may one day have those types of additives but for the most part at this time marijuana does not have the same chemicals in it and therefore is unlikely to form the same compounds.

Also I'm not sure what point you intended to make of the doctor but it read like you were suggesting that because he died of a heart attack his death was not tobacco related. This is a big misconception many have, tobacco is one of if not the biggest contributor to heart disease and death from heart disease. Which is supported by your childhood doctor dying of heart disease in his early 50's although if he was a chain smoker he likely had other bad lifestyle habits that also contributed to a premature death.

 

[Harry Gypsna]

Also I'm not sure what point you intended to make of the doctor but it read like you were suggesting that because he died of a heart attack his death was not tobacco related. This is a big misconception many have, tobacco is one of if not the biggest contributor to heart disease and death from heart disease. Which is supported by your childhood doctor dying of heart disease in his early 50's although if he was a chain smoker he likely had other bad lifestyle habits that also contributed to a premature death.

My great granddad smoked 30 unfiltered cigs a day for 70 years, died in his 90s.

I just want to clear, I do not dispute the health consequences of smoking, in smokers, just the passive smoke lie perpetuated by the anti smoking industry. The thing asbout my Grandad was just to illustrate that anecdotes don't mean much ( know that the anecdote wasn't yours).

The link between Passive smoking and various illnesses is directly comparable to the supposed link between Cannabis and Schizophrenia, in that it is all based on various groups twisting and exaggerating, or even downright lying about what research has shown.

 

[HempKat]

My great granddad smoked 30 unfiltered cigs a day for 70 years, died in his 90s.

I just want to clear, I do not dispute the health consequences of smoking, in smokers, just the passive smoke lie perpetuated by the anti smoking industry. The thing asbout my Grandad was just to illustrate that anecdotes don't mean much ( know that the anecdote wasn't yours).

The link between Passive smoking and various illnesses is directly comparable to the supposed link between Cannabis and Schizophrenia, in that it is all based on various groups twisting and exaggerating, or even downright lying about what research has shown.

Well research is like polls, they are conducted at the bequest of various parties paying for them. The places that do research and polls do so to make money and in that sense are businesses. The people that contract these businesses to do the studies or polls are customers. A long standing rule of business if you want your customers to keep coming back you give them what they want. I've worked for a company that does polls and know for a fact they pick their sampling area and design the questions, to get the results the customer wants. I see no reason for research organizations to be any different.

I too am not convinced of the claims that 2nd hand smoke is the danger people claim it to be. I grew up with a Father who smoked 4 packs a day and we often went on long trips as a family often in the winter (for the holidays) when it was too cold to crack the windows. So if 2nd hand smoke was such a definite danger I'd think at least my mother or two brother, none of which who smoke, would have developed some sort of complications from 2nd hand smoke. None of them have and they are all above age 60 now with my Mother pushing 90. Additionally me being a smoker in addition to being exposed to lots of 2nd hand smoke my entire childhood one would think I at least should have developed something by now, and I'm in my 50's.

More then that though what convinces me the 2nd hand thing is sketchy at best is what is happening with E-Cigarettes. They've been around for a while now and in the beginning one of the big claims that nobody disputed was that being vapor, there was no risk of 2nd hand complications. Nobody ever disputed that until just recently now that excessive taxation and extremely restrictive laws are putting people with a serious addiction problem into unreasonable situations.

What really chaps my ass the most though is that if it is as bad as it is and the reason things like marijuana are illegal is to protect us from it's dangers then why have they not made tobacco flat out illegal? As a smoker who has tried to quit many times and failed the biggest issue for me is that cigarettes are so easy to get. Any direction I go from my home within 5 minutes time walking, I can find a place where I can give into the temptation and buy cigarettes. While I might not like it at first, getting rid of cigarettes would be the best thing the government could do for me if they're so worried about the effects of cigarettes and 2nd hand smoke. They won't though because they are as addicted to the "sin" tax revenue generated by cigarettes as I am to the nicotine in the cigarettes.

 

[Harry Gypsna]

According to the WHO, there is a 0.01% chance of a non smoker getting lung cancer. 0.01%, I think we can agree that 0.01% is for all intents and purposes "Fuck all"
The WHO also says that passive smoking increases the risk by 16-17%. Now, maybe it's just me, but a 16-17% increase on fuck all, is still fuck all. to be precise, it is 0.0117, nowhere near even increasing it to 0.02, which would still be fuck all.

 

[The OrigF/clred]

I agree that non smokers can be a bit rabid about their position in a debate on the effects of smoking cigarettes however there were a couple of things you said that I wanted to address. By the way, not that it should matter but I'm a smoker.

While you are absolutely correct that it's the combustion process that creates the carcinogens leading to cancer I'd venture that you are wrong about the same compounds found in cigarettes being found in pot. Pot is for the most part all natural. Tobacco while also for the most part all natural has many things added to it to alter it's properties, things such as ammonia, flavor enhancers, fire retardants, etc. Perhaps if marijuana ever becomes a corporate product like cigarettes it may one day have those types of additives but for the most part at this time marijuana does not have the same chemicals in it and therefore is unlikely to form the same compounds.

Also I'm not sure what point you intended to make of the doctor but it read like you were suggesting that because he died of a heart attack his death was not tobacco related. This is a big misconception many have, tobacco is one of if not the biggest contributor to heart disease and death from heart disease. Which is supported by your childhood doctor dying of heart disease in his early 50's although if he was a chain smoker he likely had other bad lifestyle habits that also contributed to a premature death.

we're not in disagreement here - you're correct about cig tobacco having a number of other chems or additives - i went over that in an earlier post in this very thread (see post #22 - there's a lot of good info), there are over 70 chems that are used to adulterate cig tobacco - there's an interesting video on youtube of 3 retired FDA scientists on the TV show "60 Minutes" relaying that while all the compounds individually were safe for human consumption, no one, including the FDA, had done any study on what those chems become in combination with each other and what those chems become after combustion

but back to point, cigarettes were causing cancer in the 50s & 60s before they started adulterating the tobacco with all the chems, so in that regard i liken tobacco and mj as having the same cancer causing potential - combusting plant material is going to produce similiar compounds

on the doctor, i wasn't real clear there, i was just commenting that as the basis for my decision to ignore the warnings and to start smoking in early 60s, 1963 iirc and the part about him dying from a heart attack - that was just verbal noise, don't know why i included that tidbit

if you're smoking that much though, do read post #22 and if you're interested in SYO cigs (Stuff your own), mine smoke (taste) better than any cig i ever smoked and cost 76 cents a pack for the lower grade tobacco & $2.20 pack for the high grade tobacco. After a week of smoking SYO cigs, i couldn't finish a factory smoke because the chemical taste left my throat feeling like it had been wiped with dry cotton.

I was smoking 2-3 packs a day, and within 6 months i was down to 12-18 cigs a day and i wasn't even trying to diminish my habit - it's all explained in #22. One of those chems they adulterate cig tobacco with is ammonia - phillip morris did the research in Brazil, ammonia treated tobacco increases the nicotene hit 33X over un-adulterated tobacco - think in terms of the "crack cocaine" of tobacco. When i first went to SYO, my consumption went up a bit as my body was looking for that "nicotene fix or hit" it was used to. Within 10-14 days it started to go down, and i now only smoke when i have time to stop and actually enjoy the smoke. More than a few members in the tobacco forums report the same experience. And more than one poster has the sig that sez "i used to smoke for the sake of smoking, i now smoke because i enjoy it" and that about hits it on the head

 

[Green lung]

.


I've probably smoked a total of 25 cigarettes in my life from bumming them at bars when drunk.

Thats equivalent to like 50 years of 2nd hand smoke.


I should practically croak any minute now!




.

 

[Weird]

environmental toxins all have the same potential to harm us, but many variables come into play when determining how we react to them individually, such as age, state of immune system, existing conditions (asthma), etc. (for example not everyone is effected the same by bee venom some people find it a nuisance and others find it fatal)

no one is contending with anyone's freedom to do as they choose with their own body but to make that choice for someone else who might react totally is completely fucked up

if you are a smoker and have a hard time from lighting up regardless of who is effected the truth is your physically addicted to designer tobacco and it is so strong and your so weak you are willing to compromise others for it

on top of that your paying someone else to give you something that makes you feel shitty unless you have some more (ironic isn't it)

cigarettes only take away the craving that you get shortly after you smoke a cigarette which cues you to have another cigarette

stop passing the buck because you fucked up and became addicted

it takes years off the end of your life not the beginning and the fact that your willing to sacrifice that for a quick 5 minute fix says something about your being but hey no reason to analysis or judge as long as your not passing the buck, most of us manage to smoke pot all day long with out other people smelling the smoke as a matter of survival, at least cigarettes aren't illegal

remember by the time your body reacts negatively to cigarettes its too late to reverse the damage and many people don't get their shit together in life together till later on, so the life you don't give a fuck about now might really hurt to lose a little later on

fwiw the smoking bans are aggressive because they want to reduce the number of people in future generations who smoke as well as protect from second hand smoke so as long as people die from smoking expect it to be stigmatized

 

[Harry Gypsna]

environmental toxins all have the same potential to harm us, but many variables come into play when determining how we react to them individually, such as age, state of immune system, existing conditions (asthma), etc. (for example not everyone is effected the same by bee venom some people find it a nuisance and others find it fatal)

no one is contending with anyone's freedom to do as they choose with their own body but to make that choice for someone else who might react totally is completely fucked up

if you are a smoker and have a hard time from lighting up regardless of who is effected the truth is your physically addicted to designer tobacco and it is so strong and your so weak you are willing to compromise others for it

on top of that your paying someone else to give you something that makes you feel shitty unless you have some more (ironic isn't it)

cigarettes only take away the craving that you get shortly after you smoke a cigarette which cues you to have another cigarette

stop passing the buck because you fucked up and became addicted

it takes years off the end of your life not the beginning and the fact that your willing to sacrifice that for a quick 5 minute fix says something about your being but hey no reason to analysis or judge as long as your not passing the buck, most of us manage to smoke pot all day long with out other people smelling the smoke as a matter of survival, at least cigarettes aren't illegal

remember by the time your body reacts negatively to cigarettes its too late to reverse the damage and many people don't get their shit together in life together till later on, so the life you don't give a fuck about now might really hurt to lose a little later on

fwiw the smoking bans are aggressive because they want to reduce the number of people in future generations who smoke as well as protect from second hand smoke so as long as people die from smoking expect it to be stigmatized

Please, spare me the patronising spiel on how I can't think for myself because I am addicted, or I deny addiction. This whole notion that people don't enjoy it, they are just feeding their habit, is bollocks. Nobody would carry on smoking often and for long enough to get addicted when they 1st start if they didn't enjoy it.

I am glad you acknowlege the social engineering behind the smoking bans.

About it affecting the body in years to come, don't care. they say it takes however many years off your life, could not give a fuck, because lets face it, they are the shit years anyway. The years of alternating between not being able to control your bladder, and not being able to piss at all, not being able to eat what you want, only seeing family at xmas, one by one all your friends have died, and now you smell of piss and boiled cabbage and you think the nurse who comes to wipe your arse is your long lost sister you haven't seen for 60 years. No thanks, I'll take the cigs if those years are the price.

 

[Weird]

Please, spare me the patronising spiel on how I can't think for myself because I am addicted, or I deny addiction. This whole notion that people don't enjoy it, they are just feeding their habit, is bollocks. Nobody would carry on smoking when they 1st start if they didn't enjoy it

heroin feels good too, but like cigarettes it doesn't feel good when you stop using it; unlike cannabis which is not physically addicting

having smoked both cigarettes and pot i could tell the difference funny you cant

i guess its the pure enjoyment of smoking that makes you want others to have to be subjected to your second hand smoke

cancer rates among 74000 women (laughable study segment) were not observed to be effected greatly but that didn't mention asthma, bronchitis or other respiratory illness so your smoke isn't less toxic in that regards

I am glad you acknowlege the social engineering behind the smoking bans.

im glad you acknowledge the denial and belligerence that comes with cigarette addiction

About it affecting the body in years to come, don't care. they say it takes however many years off your life, could not give a fuck, because lets face it, they are the shit years anyway. The years of alternating between not being able to control your bladder, and not being able to piss at all, not being able to eat what you want, only seeing family at xmas, one by one all your friends have died, and now you smell of piss and boiled cabbage and you think the nurse who comes to wipe your arse is your long lost sister you haven't seen for 60 years. No thanks, I'll take the cigs if those years are the price.

ok just because your miserably cynical and have nothing to live for past pleasuring yourself here and now doesn't mean people should have to share in your lifestyle choices based on that mindset

 

[Harry Gypsna]

heroin feels good too, but like cigarettes it doesn't feel good when you stop using it; unlike cannabis which is not physically addicting

having smoked both cigarettes and pot i could tell the difference funny you cant

i guess its the pure enjoyment of smoking that makes you want others to have to be subjected to your second hand smoke

cancer rates among 74000 women (laughable study segment) were not observed to be effected greatly but that didn't mention asthma, bronchitis or other respiratory illness so your smoke isn't less toxic in that regards
im glad you acknowledge the denial and belligerence that comes with cigarette addiction


ok just because your miserably cynical and have nothing to live for past pleasuring yourself here and now doesn't mean people should have to share in your lifestyle choices based on that mindset

Don't talk to me about Heroin mate, been there, done that, left it behind. Even comparing the two is ridiculous. When I have no tobacco, I have never felt like killing myself because of the withdrawal, can't say the same for smack.

Cynical yes, miserably, fuck no. I have plenty to live for right now, but don't relish the thought of old age.

I don't want anyone to be "Subjected" to my smoke indoors. I want choice so people can choose to go to places which allow smoking or not, which doesn't seem unreasonable based upon the lack of evidence for the supposed deadly harm of 2nd hand smoke. And outdoors, please, it is ludicrous to ban outdoor smoking, I have no issue with owners of outdoor dining ares or whatever deciding for themselves.. Bronchitis, cannabis causes it. Cannabis helps some peoples asthma, but it triggers others. Cannabis may not be pysically addictive, but neither is crack.... see I can make seemingly valid (based on the fact that cocaine is not physically addictive, merely a strong compulsion) but ridiculous comparisons too.

76,000 a laughable sample? Really? 76,000 is a very respectable sample size, especially when compared with the number of people the average new medicine is tested on.

So, about the car question.......

 

[supermanlives]

what about farts. ? does breathing in farts have any health concerns ? everyone farts. wow this thread has taken off lol

 

[BlueBlazer]

what about farts. ? does breathing in farts have any health concerns ?

It does when my dog was the one who farted!