N
NZjay
looking good Kovenant!
-
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2nd Grow - Indoor Soil - organic
- Thread starter kovenant
- Start date
Yes very nice set up you have going now, very hospital quality like
I agree with Judas ( not teh first time I have thought that) different nutes differnt strains, possibly three separate drip systems might be a better option, but looks like you are primed to give us a bud show
I agree with Judas ( not teh first time I have thought that) different nutes differnt strains, possibly three separate drip systems might be a better option, but looks like you are primed to give us a bud show
MID TOWN
Active member
Looking good KOV. Your last run ended really well for first grow and I'm sure this one will be even better. A lot of people tend to stay away from the movers but they CAN work. I don't know if you've seen any of MR WAGS grows but he pulled off some massive harvests from a 1000watt on a mover.
I see you have the co2 all set up. Is your room fully sealed or are you venting?
I'm not much help as far as soil goes but I'll be watchin. GOOD LUCK.
I see you have the co2 all set up. Is your room fully sealed or are you venting?
I'm not much help as far as soil goes but I'll be watchin.
GOOD LUCK.
kovenant
Member
hey everyone! good to see you guys stopping by to see how im doing, i certainly appreciate it.
well. i took that into consideration when i layed out the room. for instance - the left side is all blue goo (directly under the left 600w HPS), the right side is all blue cheese (directly under the right 600w HPS), and in the middle are my 4 trainwrecks - that probably will stretch more than the other two strains... though the blue goos are really growing! not so much stretch, just growing - bigger. huge leaves.
most of my watering is done with plain RO water - as blaze boasts. i'll be using some teas and other additives but that will be applied manually - so i can adjust to strain specifics, if i notice them. i mixed all the soils the same, save for the 6 or so i used EWC in.
i actually stopped by OSH and bought everything to automate watering. i've run it once. have it on a sprinkler timer to water for 5 mins every 72 hrs. the bubblers are settable for 1-24 gph. and they kick out water super fast (there is run-off after 5 mins)
couch locked, NZjay, and Dr Dog -> thnx for your kind words and support. i appreciate it
hey midtown! good to hear from you! yes, i was very pleased with my last run. my first! i was originally going to use movers but had been told so many negative things that i finally declined. which was good, because i had over extended myself financially as well... but am on track now. plus, didnt have to really spend much this time at all, since most of the equipment was purchased last time.
im not venting anymore. room is completely sealed. its in the 50s and 60s outside for the most part... despite some beach days in the high 70s. and the AC only has to work against the heat from the lights (no more water chiller, obviously.) so its been working great.
by the way. i tested my run off the last couple waterings. the run off has been 3500-4000 ppm. in hydro, this would have been disaster. im guessing because this is soil and all organic material and nutes, that the ppm range doesnt matter as much? on a good note, my pH has been 6.5-6.8
ill be posting more pics on the start of week 3
judas cohen said:
well. i took that into consideration when i layed out the room. for instance - the left side is all blue goo (directly under the left 600w HPS), the right side is all blue cheese (directly under the right 600w HPS), and in the middle are my 4 trainwrecks - that probably will stretch more than the other two strains... though the blue goos are really growing! not so much stretch, just growing - bigger. huge leaves.
most of my watering is done with plain RO water - as blaze boasts. i'll be using some teas and other additives but that will be applied manually - so i can adjust to strain specifics, if i notice them. i mixed all the soils the same, save for the 6 or so i used EWC in.
i actually stopped by OSH and bought everything to automate watering. i've run it once. have it on a sprinkler timer to water for 5 mins every 72 hrs. the bubblers are settable for 1-24 gph. and they kick out water super fast (there is run-off after 5 mins)
couch locked, NZjay, and Dr Dog -> thnx for your kind words and support. i appreciate it
MID TOWN said:
hey midtown! good to hear from you! yes, i was very pleased with my last run. my first! i was originally going to use movers but had been told so many negative things that i finally declined. which was good, because i had over extended myself financially as well... but am on track now. plus, didnt have to really spend much this time at all, since most of the equipment was purchased last time.
im not venting anymore. room is completely sealed. its in the 50s and 60s outside for the most part... despite some beach days in the high 70s. and the AC only has to work against the heat from the lights (no more water chiller, obviously.) so its been working great.
by the way. i tested my run off the last couple waterings. the run off has been 3500-4000 ppm. in hydro, this would have been disaster. im guessing because this is soil and all organic material and nutes, that the ppm range doesnt matter as much? on a good note, my pH has been 6.5-6.8
ill be posting more pics on the start of week 3
You got a nice lil grow goin on man. Keep it green.
kovenant
Member
thnx chubbynugs i think ill be growing in some form, even if very small scale, for the rest of my life its natural, its good for you, and you feel so good about it when you've grown your own.
anyway - i hope i can get some advice from those of you watching and stopping by to look. i want some feedback on breeding. now, i understand the huge selection process, matching same phenos in the f2 generation to get consistancy, etc, etc... but i just want a few basic breeding answers. as im no master and the biggest reason is because i want to build some seed-stock before my move to maui. i love the strains i have, and i wont be able to take clones with me.
here is my plan.
here are the two Pure Power Plants i grew from seed.
the second one im hoping is a male. if so, i want to mate it with one of each of the other strains (1 trainwreck, 1 blue goo, and 1 blue cheese.) so here are my questions.
should i switch all the plants into flower at the same time... meaning, all 28 plants in my flower room and the 2 PPP plants that still need sexing. OR should i switch the PPP's to 12/12 right now in order to determin sex and get closer to the release of pollination? im guessing that either would be fine... after all, outdoor they all 'switch' to flower near the same time, and if i switch them first the pollen will be ready at the first of the bud sights on the others, if i switch them later. any advice on which method would be better, or which works?
my second question is... once i determin sex and hopefully have a male. should i just place one of each of the other strains into the veg room and let the natural release of pollination occur, or should i take samples of the pollen and apply it to the females myself? if so, what is the best method of applying pollen and when is the best time?
and lastly, once pollination has occurred is it safe to place the pollinated plants into the flower room with the rest of the crop. or should i just keep them in the mom room under the 400? i mean, 400 is great for 3-4 plants under it, so i guess my question is... regardless of whether i want to keep them in the mother/veg room, is it safe (and if so, when) to move the pollinated plants back into a room with unpollinated plants?
thnx guys!
i think ill be growing in some form, even if very small scale, for the rest of my life its natural, its good for you, and you feel so good about it when you've grown your own.anyway - i hope i can get some advice from those of you watching and stopping by to look. i want some feedback on breeding. now, i understand the huge selection process, matching same phenos in the f2 generation to get consistancy, etc, etc... but i just want a few basic breeding answers. as im no master and the biggest reason is because i want to build some seed-stock before my move to maui. i love the strains i have, and i wont be able to take clones with me.
here is my plan.
here are the two Pure Power Plants i grew from seed.
the second one im hoping is a male. if so, i want to mate it with one of each of the other strains (1 trainwreck, 1 blue goo, and 1 blue cheese.) so here are my questions.
should i switch all the plants into flower at the same time... meaning, all 28 plants in my flower room and the 2 PPP plants that still need sexing. OR should i switch the PPP's to 12/12 right now in order to determin sex and get closer to the release of pollination? im guessing that either would be fine... after all, outdoor they all 'switch' to flower near the same time, and if i switch them first the pollen will be ready at the first of the bud sights on the others, if i switch them later. any advice on which method would be better, or which works?
my second question is... once i determin sex and hopefully have a male. should i just place one of each of the other strains into the veg room and let the natural release of pollination occur, or should i take samples of the pollen and apply it to the females myself? if so, what is the best method of applying pollen and when is the best time?
and lastly, once pollination has occurred is it safe to place the pollinated plants into the flower room with the rest of the crop. or should i just keep them in the mom room under the 400? i mean, 400 is great for 3-4 plants under it, so i guess my question is... regardless of whether i want to keep them in the mother/veg room, is it safe (and if so, when) to move the pollinated plants back into a room with unpollinated plants?
thnx guys!
judas cohen
Active member
That should work really good. I flower under 250MH+250HPS and perpetual harvest. Lay-out is smaller but similar technique (except hand water because fewer plants.)
No advice about breeding because others are much more knowledgeable in that area. However, depending on # of seeds you want, smoke the top, seeds in lower middle branches, clones from bottom branches works for me.
My understanding that using ppm meter is not all that accurate in organic soil. All I've ever checked is pH of water and ferts. Never even needed to pH run-off. There are other schools of thought that work for other folks.
Grow Safely/Be Happy!
No advice about breeding because others are much more knowledgeable in that area. However, depending on # of seeds you want, smoke the top, seeds in lower middle branches, clones from bottom branches works for me.
My understanding that using ppm meter is not all that accurate in organic soil. All I've ever checked is pH of water and ferts. Never even needed to pH run-off. There are other schools of thought that work for other folks.
Grow Safely/Be Happy!
kovenant
Member
thnx for the input judas
i was told by a local today that the curling of leaves ive got on my new top growth can be caused by several things: lamp heat, CO2 burn, and or a sign of nute burn or defficency. since i dont see major burning (just the lower leaves that have had the small outside edge burning since prior to transplant... i dont think know if its nute burn/def. but i use a ppm monitor and levels sit between 1200-1450ppm, so shouldnt be CO2 burn either. my lamps were @ 14" but are on movers - and i had my hand at canopy level several times to check - and hasnt seemed too hot.
so last night i raised the lamps to 20". i figured it would also promote some stretch by raising the light further. i have the room, so dont mind at all - in fact i like some stretch.
i bought some Final Phase per the advice from my local grower friend. he said because my runoff is 3000-4000 ppm that i should run one water regiment with a flushing agent. he said organic soil or not, thats just too hot and could be causing the curling too.
/shrug
going to see if the curling seems the same, less, or more this evening... see if it might not be mostly from the lamps. maybe run Final Phase in a couple days during the next watering.
ill update pics tomorrow on the beginning for week 3 veg
i was told by a local today that the curling of leaves ive got on my new top growth can be caused by several things: lamp heat, CO2 burn, and or a sign of nute burn or defficency. since i dont see major burning (just the lower leaves that have had the small outside edge burning since prior to transplant... i dont think know if its nute burn/def. but i use a ppm monitor and levels sit between 1200-1450ppm, so shouldnt be CO2 burn either. my lamps were @ 14" but are on movers - and i had my hand at canopy level several times to check - and hasnt seemed too hot.
so last night i raised the lamps to 20". i figured it would also promote some stretch by raising the light further. i have the room, so dont mind at all - in fact i like some stretch.
i bought some Final Phase per the advice from my local grower friend. he said because my runoff is 3000-4000 ppm that i should run one water regiment with a flushing agent. he said organic soil or not, thats just too hot and could be causing the curling too.
/shrug
going to see if the curling seems the same, less, or more this evening... see if it might not be mostly from the lamps. maybe run Final Phase in a couple days during the next watering.
ill update pics tomorrow on the beginning for week 3 veg
kovenant
Member
Veg Day 14 - beginning week 3
Veg Day 14 - beginning week 3
11pm. here are the pics, about to go into day 15 of veg (day 35 i believe, including pre-veg)
first i will show the consecutive growth.
beginning Veg Day 1
Veg Day 7
Veg Day 14
here are some pics of that show the easy automatic watering system i installed. spent about $50 at OSH and made a quick bubbling system that runs off my 55 gal res. 1/2" tubing with attached bubblers to each bag. i ran connective hose from the 1/2" tubs, through the bottom of the 3 gal bags (through run-off holes), up the sides of the bags, and staked into the soil.
here is the water regulator attached to 1/2" tubing (set at watering for 5 mins every 72 hrs)
this pic is posted above too, but shows how the 1/2" lines are run
here is a bubbler at the base of a trainwreck lady
here's some top views of each strain on Day 14
blue goo Day 14
trainwreck Day 14
blue cheese Day 14
here's a shot from bag level of the blue goos (left) and trainwreck (right)
and here's a couple shots of the curling leaves i've been seeing. which, by the way, i didnt see much of today - which leads me to believe that the curling was from the heat of the lamps. /shrug
by the way - it wasnt necessarily strain specific... the heat curls. i noticed it on both the goo and the cheese - but those are the 2 strains sitting directly under the lamps. the trainwreck is straddling the middle of both footprints. so, not sure... but im betting on the lamp heat for now.
still not sure if i want to flip to 12/12 next week, or veg for another week. guess we'll see
Veg Day 14 - beginning week 3
11pm. here are the pics, about to go into day 15 of veg (day 35 i believe, including pre-veg)
first i will show the consecutive growth.
beginning Veg Day 1
Veg Day 7
Veg Day 14
here are some pics of that show the easy automatic watering system i installed. spent about $50 at OSH and made a quick bubbling system that runs off my 55 gal res. 1/2" tubing with attached bubblers to each bag. i ran connective hose from the 1/2" tubs, through the bottom of the 3 gal bags (through run-off holes), up the sides of the bags, and staked into the soil.
here is the water regulator attached to 1/2" tubing (set at watering for 5 mins every 72 hrs)
this pic is posted above too, but shows how the 1/2" lines are run
here is a bubbler at the base of a trainwreck lady
here's some top views of each strain on Day 14
blue goo Day 14
trainwreck Day 14
blue cheese Day 14
here's a shot from bag level of the blue goos (left) and trainwreck (right)
and here's a couple shots of the curling leaves i've been seeing. which, by the way, i didnt see much of today - which leads me to believe that the curling was from the heat of the lamps. /shrug
by the way - it wasnt necessarily strain specific... the heat curls. i noticed it on both the goo and the cheese - but those are the 2 strains sitting directly under the lamps. the trainwreck is straddling the middle of both footprints. so, not sure... but im betting on the lamp heat for now.
still not sure if i want to flip to 12/12 next week, or veg for another week. guess we'll see
judas cohen
Active member
Looking good. Dark green and crispy tips/edges on LOWER leaves could possibly be too much N when plants were babies. (They usually grow out of it.) Not unusual with mix designed for water only. Intense light will speed up photosynthesis and cause more uptake of nutes from soil, some times resulting in overferting that disappears as plants get larger. (Damaged leaves will not recover, but new growth looks OK.)
Hydro reacts to changes faster than organic soil. (foliar feed excepted.) Often a time lag between ferting and seeing results, as organic ferts take longer to be assimilated by plant.
Do you have an oscillating fan on plants to strengthen stalks?
Never used CO2, but thought 85F was optimum temp for fast growth when concentration was 1200 to 1500 ppm and light should be 60+ watts/sq ft. How many sq ft is your cabinet?
Just offering info you probably already are aware of.....LOL
Happy Growing!
Hydro reacts to changes faster than organic soil. (foliar feed excepted.) Often a time lag between ferting and seeing results, as organic ferts take longer to be assimilated by plant.
Do you have an oscillating fan on plants to strengthen stalks?
Never used CO2, but thought 85F was optimum temp for fast growth when concentration was 1200 to 1500 ppm and light should be 60+ watts/sq ft. How many sq ft is your cabinet?
Just offering info you probably already are aware of.....LOL
Happy Growing!
kovenant
Member
good to hear. and i dont care how much i ever know something, or how much i may have researched something... i will always welcome advice and reassurance
i wasnt too sure on the temp, but i remembered it was in the 80s... so i estimated low 80s to be safe. i may set my AC higher and enjoy a cheaper bill.
the flower room is 12x8'. however, the lights (and their footprints) are 7.5x8'. and the lamps are on movers, so i dont know how you'd calculate that into the equation.
i didnt know about the start-to-finish mixes causing that type of reaction on the leaves, thats good to know. and im sure that is part of it. backing off the lamps helped too, which makes sense because of what you also mentioned about the plants photosynthesizing faster.
i wasnt too sure on the temp, but i remembered it was in the 80s... so i estimated low 80s to be safe. i may set my AC higher and enjoy a cheaper bill.
the flower room is 12x8'. however, the lights (and their footprints) are 7.5x8'. and the lamps are on movers, so i dont know how you'd calculate that into the equation.
i didnt know about the start-to-finish mixes causing that type of reaction on the leaves, thats good to know. and im sure that is part of it. backing off the lamps helped too, which makes sense because of what you also mentioned about the plants photosynthesizing faster.
Clean set up Kovey...Dr. Duck.
kovenant
Member
hi i_score & dubbieduck. thanks for stopping!
i may be switching to 12/12 on tuesday. i really want to veg another week or two, however im looking at harvest time (65-70 days) and i will need a couple weeks for turn over before i move.
the tallest of the girls are about 14" - this is made up of the blue goo and trainwreck. the blue cheese sit shorter, at about 11-12". what's funny is that the blue cheese is sativa dominant, and the blue goo is indica dom... yet the blue goo is the stretchiest and the blue cheese is short and squat. they are clones, and not from seed - so could just be the mom-owner's pheno preference for each. judging where they came from, im guessing he had good reason - probably potency and taste were the deciding factor over physical attributes.
anyway - if the stretchy girls continue to grow 2/3 during flower, i'll have 3 1/2' plants by the end - which i think will be fine. any opinions? i could wait another week to flower and still be in the good. im planning on taking these 55 day girls to 65 or so. /shrug
i raised the AC temp a few degrees - keeping the room at a pretty steady 83-84F during light period, and about 75F during dark. RH = 45-60% (50-60% during and nearly two days after water, then drops to 45-50% the last day before watering. watering on 72 hr cycle.)
when i switch to 12/12 i will be applying a foliar spray of Humboldt's Purple Maxx. i will also be using their Gravity at the end of flower. Not using Bush Master as i really dont want to stop growth at all - plenty of room for them to stretch.
havent applied any nutes since transplant into the 3 gal bags, other than whats in the soil, except for the Kelp Extract and Organic Bee (Advanced Nutrients) during the 1st and 2nd watering. ive been applying a foliar spray of Pest-Out (or Pest-Off, cant remember at the moment) about twice a week.
ill be posting another update with pics on tuesday - and will be deciding whether to flip to 12/12 then or let them go another week... of course part of me REALLY wants to let them veg another week.
i may be switching to 12/12 on tuesday. i really want to veg another week or two, however im looking at harvest time (65-70 days) and i will need a couple weeks for turn over before i move.
the tallest of the girls are about 14" - this is made up of the blue goo and trainwreck. the blue cheese sit shorter, at about 11-12". what's funny is that the blue cheese is sativa dominant, and the blue goo is indica dom... yet the blue goo is the stretchiest and the blue cheese is short and squat. they are clones, and not from seed - so could just be the mom-owner's pheno preference for each. judging where they came from, im guessing he had good reason - probably potency and taste were the deciding factor over physical attributes.
anyway - if the stretchy girls continue to grow 2/3 during flower, i'll have 3 1/2' plants by the end - which i think will be fine. any opinions? i could wait another week to flower and still be in the good. im planning on taking these 55 day girls to 65 or so. /shrug
i raised the AC temp a few degrees - keeping the room at a pretty steady 83-84F during light period, and about 75F during dark. RH = 45-60% (50-60% during and nearly two days after water, then drops to 45-50% the last day before watering. watering on 72 hr cycle.)
when i switch to 12/12 i will be applying a foliar spray of Humboldt's Purple Maxx. i will also be using their Gravity at the end of flower. Not using Bush Master as i really dont want to stop growth at all - plenty of room for them to stretch.
havent applied any nutes since transplant into the 3 gal bags, other than whats in the soil, except for the Kelp Extract and Organic Bee (Advanced Nutrients) during the 1st and 2nd watering. ive been applying a foliar spray of Pest-Out (or Pest-Off, cant remember at the moment) about twice a week.
ill be posting another update with pics on tuesday - and will be deciding whether to flip to 12/12 then or let them go another week... of course part of me REALLY wants to let them veg another week.
judas cohen
Active member
Water only mixes (like MoonShineMan Mix) are necessarily on the hot side for young plants because you have to put enough ferts in the soil to last about three months. It's a compromise and often works out as too hot in the beginning and too weak later on.
The chicken manure/litter could be pretty hot/fast release if not composted long enough, and MiracleGro is not noted for being consistent regarding quality control. Don't know about your Organic Potting Soil, but MiracleGro usually has their ferts in the form of osmocote granules which are water soluble and time release. The rate of release is a function of amount and frequency of watering. Your use of Soil Moist could possibly introduce another wild card in the deck. Vermiculite also retains water, which is why you used it. Not knocking your mix in the slightest, just offering what I've read as food for thought. May have zero value regarding what you're doing. (There may not be any osmocote in the MiracleGro Organic as properly composted chicken manure is available for 4+ months and wouldn't require the osmocote treatment.)
Your plants look healthy, but stretchy and less than what I would expect if they were clones taken 7 weeks ago. (I'm a little confused on the pre-veg and veg time computation you use.). I've never used two 600s or light movers or CO2, so I may be talkin' through my anal aperture; but somethin' just don't seem right. Not that anything's wrong...but something just don't feel quite right.
My limited understanding is that light movers allow you to: 1) illuminate the dark spots and 2) also get the lights lower, so even though the time each plant spends under the light is less, the intensity from being closer is so much greater that the total lumens each plant receives is more than from a stationary lamp farther away resulting in increased photosynthesis. 3) covering a larger area allows you to grow more plants per light, thus increasing grams/watt.
Enhancing CO2 also increases photosynthesis as does higher temperatures. Combining those three factors is like adding nitrous oxide and a turbocharger to a car. (Expect to either break something or lay down some big numbers...LOL) I'm pretty sure when you get crankin', the soil won't have enough nutes and you will be watering with ferts. Increased photosynthesis requires more nutes and water. Result is bigger plants/yields and accellerated growth rate.
What are you using for fans, 'mano? What's the temp in middle section of each plant vs general temp in the cab? You want the air by the plant to be in the 80s. If the a/c cold air sinks down low in the cab, plant growth will slow down..... I think MJ goes dormant at about 40F; and growth is noticably slower below about 60F. I don't know your conditions, so all this is a shot in the dark and an invitation to someone who is knowledgeable to chime in.
1200 watts divided by 8x12 is about 13 watts/sq ft. 7 1/2 x 8 is about 20 watts/sq ft. 40 watts/sq ft is on the low end for a fresh air grow, as a rule of thumb. 100 watts/sq is about saturation point. Not sure light movers change rule of thumb that much.
28 plants in 96 sq ft is about 3 1/2 sq ft/ plant. 60 sq ft "light footprint" containing 28 plants is about 2 sq ft/plant. Looks to me like most of your light is shining on the floor between and among the plants. Wonder what would happen if you crammed those plants into a 2x3 space and stuck them under one stationary 600 with a fan blowing across the tops of the plants between them and the lamp to reduce the heat to the plant. I suspect those plants would take off like they had benzadrine in their Ovaltine.LOL
I may be totally wrong, but something seems to be less than what it could be and light may well be part of it. I'm not criticizing your grow, just really want your grow to repay you for all the thought, labor, and money you've put into it and for organic soil to show you what it's capable of.
For sure, I think you would get a better yield if you vegged longer. Just my opinion, and I'm not totally confident that I'm right about any of it...(except the numbers and math part.)
Lookin' forward to picts Tuesday. Hard for me to judge scale in the current ones. I think 3 gal bags are 7"x 7" x 14"? Oh yeah, why do you want plants to stretch? Just curious....
Excuse the long post. I'm just interested in your grow and want to learn all I can from your efforts.
The chicken manure/litter could be pretty hot/fast release if not composted long enough, and MiracleGro is not noted for being consistent regarding quality control. Don't know about your Organic Potting Soil, but MiracleGro usually has their ferts in the form of osmocote granules which are water soluble and time release. The rate of release is a function of amount and frequency of watering. Your use of Soil Moist could possibly introduce another wild card in the deck. Vermiculite also retains water, which is why you used it. Not knocking your mix in the slightest, just offering what I've read as food for thought. May have zero value regarding what you're doing. (There may not be any osmocote in the MiracleGro Organic as properly composted chicken manure is available for 4+ months and wouldn't require the osmocote treatment.)
Your plants look healthy, but stretchy and less than what I would expect if they were clones taken 7 weeks ago. (I'm a little confused on the pre-veg and veg time computation you use.). I've never used two 600s or light movers or CO2, so I may be talkin' through my anal aperture; but somethin' just don't seem right. Not that anything's wrong...but something just don't feel quite right.
My limited understanding is that light movers allow you to: 1) illuminate the dark spots and 2) also get the lights lower, so even though the time each plant spends under the light is less, the intensity from being closer is so much greater that the total lumens each plant receives is more than from a stationary lamp farther away resulting in increased photosynthesis. 3) covering a larger area allows you to grow more plants per light, thus increasing grams/watt.
Enhancing CO2 also increases photosynthesis as does higher temperatures. Combining those three factors is like adding nitrous oxide and a turbocharger to a car. (Expect to either break something or lay down some big numbers...LOL) I'm pretty sure when you get crankin', the soil won't have enough nutes and you will be watering with ferts. Increased photosynthesis requires more nutes and water. Result is bigger plants/yields and accellerated growth rate.
What are you using for fans, 'mano? What's the temp in middle section of each plant vs general temp in the cab? You want the air by the plant to be in the 80s. If the a/c cold air sinks down low in the cab, plant growth will slow down..... I think MJ goes dormant at about 40F; and growth is noticably slower below about 60F. I don't know your conditions, so all this is a shot in the dark and an invitation to someone who is knowledgeable to chime in.
1200 watts divided by 8x12 is about 13 watts/sq ft. 7 1/2 x 8 is about 20 watts/sq ft. 40 watts/sq ft is on the low end for a fresh air grow, as a rule of thumb. 100 watts/sq is about saturation point. Not sure light movers change rule of thumb that much.
28 plants in 96 sq ft is about 3 1/2 sq ft/ plant. 60 sq ft "light footprint" containing 28 plants is about 2 sq ft/plant. Looks to me like most of your light is shining on the floor between and among the plants. Wonder what would happen if you crammed those plants into a 2x3 space and stuck them under one stationary 600 with a fan blowing across the tops of the plants between them and the lamp to reduce the heat to the plant. I suspect those plants would take off like they had benzadrine in their Ovaltine.LOL
I may be totally wrong, but something seems to be less than what it could be and light may well be part of it. I'm not criticizing your grow, just really want your grow to repay you for all the thought, labor, and money you've put into it and for organic soil to show you what it's capable of.
For sure, I think you would get a better yield if you vegged longer. Just my opinion, and I'm not totally confident that I'm right about any of it...(except the numbers and math part.)
Lookin' forward to picts Tuesday. Hard for me to judge scale in the current ones. I think 3 gal bags are 7"x 7" x 14"? Oh yeah, why do you want plants to stretch? Just curious....
Excuse the long post. I'm just interested in your grow and want to learn all I can from your efforts.
kovenant
Member
judas -> well, here is an update (with pics) so you can tell me what you think of their progress. ive decided to flip them to 12/12 tomorrow morning. lights currently turn off at noon and come back on at 6pm. i will probably switch them off right at 5am (when i should be at work, and just show up a couple minutes late) and run my lights-off cycle from 5am-5pm. will also be switching to HPS bulbs. now, to respond to your prior post.
the miracle gro organics does not use osmocote.
yes, they were clones taken 7 weeks ago... however the process was delayed several times. i did not pull the clones from the domes when they had enough root growth to transplant into soil. i was not ready and let them sit at least a week longer. from there i transplanted into 18 oz plastic cups. they sat about 2.5 weeks in those... which were probably ready after 2 weeks if not 1.5 weeks. each time i left them in each of those situations they werent stressed, but had grown as much as the medium and size container would allow for. if they would of been transplanted at optimal times, they would have all had an extra 2 weeks under the 600s... and they'd probably look a bit more like you'd expect. anyway - im also going to include a picture from blaze's soil grow at 3 weeks veg, for comparison - since im using his method. by the way, the girls have been averaging about 3/4 - 1" growth per day. they grew 3" while i was gone the past 3 days. oh, and you mentioned not understanding how im counting my days... when i say Veg day 7 (Day 29) that means its Day 7 vegging under the 600s (but if including pre-vegging in the 18 oz cups, then its day 29 of veg.)
temps where the plants are is 85F. RH this last week has sat between 40-55%. CO2 ranges between 1200-1450. the AC cannot blow onto the plants the way it is positioned. but may hit the tops of a couple as they get higher, so i will keep this in mind. i can face the diverters toward the opposite wall (away from the plants) too... now i have them aim straight out from the AC - toward the plastic wall where i come in. but either way, the AC is set at 78F... so it wouldnt affect them at all.
i have 2 fans blowing on the girls and creating air flow. one is a 12" sitting on top of my AC box, aimed down at a 45 degree angle blowing directly into the center of the footprint. the other is an oscillating 3' tall vertical fan that blows from the far side of the room (next to my res) toward the girls.
as far as my watts per square foot... i have no clue. all i know is that my canopies are pretty even. my lamps are currently 11" from the tops (i move them about 4" up each time... and when i left raised them to 15". i didnt raise them tonight cause i will in the morning before switching to 12/12... im going to add Purple Maxx tomorrow and it recommends raising lamps an extra 3-5". so tomorrow ill probably raise them 18-20" above the canopy - and slowly get back to about 12-14". also, the girls are bushy and getting closer and closer together. i probably could of maximized light when they were smaller by cuddling them all together under one of the 600s... and just saved on electricity... but now they seem to be growing into the footprint. never thought about it, just figured this is how they'd be so i set them up originally that way.
umm, i think the 3 gal bags are like 8"x 4" x 14"... i know the sides are square, they are rectagular... maybe 7"x5"x14".
now... to the pictures!
um. its not allowing me to upload pics. getting the error message:
Unable to read the format of file: /data/web/icmag/icmag.com/www/gallery/data/500/24279210757145_701541726_01.jpg
the images are fine, files arent corrupted. i just tried uploading last weeks pics and wont do them again either. i tried uploading them as .gifs as well, which also didnt work. anyone else having problems? says available space for pics is 150,000kb and i have 14,600kb or so in my gallery. /shrug
anyway - i just uploaded 3 of them to the web so i can give the update... going to show the consecutive growth and compare mine to blaze's
mine Day 7 (Day 29) Veg
blaze Day 8 Veg
mine Day 14 (Day 36) Veg
blaze Day 15 Veg
mine Day 21 (Day 43) Veg
blaze Day 21 Veg
here's a couple more i shot tonight.
the blue goo @ Day 21 (43) veg
trainwreck @ Day 21(43) veg
also. saw what looked like pest damage on the leaves of 1 of the blue goos. i've got spider mites. looks like i caught them early, i just see them on a couple of the girls (all blue goos.) been using Pest-Out (organic spray) twice a week... but got them anyway. used a pyrithium bomb tonight and will look into more options tomorrow.
the miracle gro organics does not use osmocote.
yes, they were clones taken 7 weeks ago... however the process was delayed several times. i did not pull the clones from the domes when they had enough root growth to transplant into soil. i was not ready and let them sit at least a week longer. from there i transplanted into 18 oz plastic cups. they sat about 2.5 weeks in those... which were probably ready after 2 weeks if not 1.5 weeks. each time i left them in each of those situations they werent stressed, but had grown as much as the medium and size container would allow for. if they would of been transplanted at optimal times, they would have all had an extra 2 weeks under the 600s... and they'd probably look a bit more like you'd expect. anyway - im also going to include a picture from blaze's soil grow at 3 weeks veg, for comparison - since im using his method. by the way, the girls have been averaging about 3/4 - 1" growth per day. they grew 3" while i was gone the past 3 days. oh, and you mentioned not understanding how im counting my days... when i say Veg day 7 (Day 29) that means its Day 7 vegging under the 600s (but if including pre-vegging in the 18 oz cups, then its day 29 of veg.)
temps where the plants are is 85F. RH this last week has sat between 40-55%. CO2 ranges between 1200-1450. the AC cannot blow onto the plants the way it is positioned. but may hit the tops of a couple as they get higher, so i will keep this in mind. i can face the diverters toward the opposite wall (away from the plants) too... now i have them aim straight out from the AC - toward the plastic wall where i come in. but either way, the AC is set at 78F... so it wouldnt affect them at all.
i have 2 fans blowing on the girls and creating air flow. one is a 12" sitting on top of my AC box, aimed down at a 45 degree angle blowing directly into the center of the footprint. the other is an oscillating 3' tall vertical fan that blows from the far side of the room (next to my res) toward the girls.
as far as my watts per square foot... i have no clue. all i know is that my canopies are pretty even. my lamps are currently 11" from the tops (i move them about 4" up each time... and when i left raised them to 15". i didnt raise them tonight cause i will in the morning before switching to 12/12... im going to add Purple Maxx tomorrow and it recommends raising lamps an extra 3-5". so tomorrow ill probably raise them 18-20" above the canopy - and slowly get back to about 12-14". also, the girls are bushy and getting closer and closer together. i probably could of maximized light when they were smaller by cuddling them all together under one of the 600s... and just saved on electricity... but now they seem to be growing into the footprint. never thought about it, just figured this is how they'd be so i set them up originally that way.
umm, i think the 3 gal bags are like 8"x 4" x 14"... i know the sides are square, they are rectagular... maybe 7"x5"x14".
now... to the pictures!
um. its not allowing me to upload pics. getting the error message:
Unable to read the format of file: /data/web/icmag/icmag.com/www/gallery/data/500/24279210757145_701541726_01.jpg
the images are fine, files arent corrupted. i just tried uploading last weeks pics and wont do them again either. i tried uploading them as .gifs as well, which also didnt work. anyone else having problems? says available space for pics is 150,000kb and i have 14,600kb or so in my gallery. /shrug
anyway - i just uploaded 3 of them to the web so i can give the update... going to show the consecutive growth and compare mine to blaze's
mine Day 7 (Day 29) Veg
blaze Day 8 Veg
mine Day 14 (Day 36) Veg
blaze Day 15 Veg
mine Day 21 (Day 43) Veg
blaze Day 21 Veg
here's a couple more i shot tonight.
the blue goo @ Day 21 (43) veg
trainwreck @ Day 21(43) veg
also. saw what looked like pest damage on the leaves of 1 of the blue goos. i've got spider mites. looks like i caught them early, i just see them on a couple of the girls (all blue goos.) been using Pest-Out (organic spray) twice a week... but got them anyway. used a pyrithium bomb tonight and will look into more options tomorrow.
Last edited:
judas cohen
Active member
Thanx for explaining your method of veg computation. Considering the 2 delays, I understand better the amount of growth. Looks like they're starting to take off.
If you know someone with 600 watt/light mover/CO2 experience, you might ask them about optimum watt/sq ft and best distance of plants from lights using that set-up.
Sounds like cold temps is not a problem, but remember that thermostat set at 78F means compressor kicks on when room air going into a/c (thermostat sensor is usually behind air filter) exceeds 78F. Temp from cold air exhaust is usually 20-25 colder before being mixed with room air.
Good on you for noticing the bugs early on! Remember to spray again after eggs hatch.
Fan situation sounds under control. Was just curious....
This is off topic, but I found it interesting: www.waynesthisandthat.com/pottingsoil.htm
Kill dem bugs and Grow Baby, Grow!!! Appreciate the update.
If you know someone with 600 watt/light mover/CO2 experience, you might ask them about optimum watt/sq ft and best distance of plants from lights using that set-up.
Sounds like cold temps is not a problem, but remember that thermostat set at 78F means compressor kicks on when room air going into a/c (thermostat sensor is usually behind air filter) exceeds 78F. Temp from cold air exhaust is usually 20-25 colder before being mixed with room air.
Good on you for noticing the bugs early on! Remember to spray again after eggs hatch.
Fan situation sounds under control. Was just curious....
This is off topic, but I found it interesting: www.waynesthisandthat.com/pottingsoil.htm
Kill dem bugs and Grow Baby, Grow!!! Appreciate the update.
kovenant
Member
sorry for the delay in update. actually took pictures last week to post but been so busy. went to maui for 4 days last weekend to scout out schools and houses for when we move... and delayed the move toward end of spring.
lets see... alot has happened. i bought 2 ebb & flow trays so that i can water/flush without as much worry of overflow (or without as much work as sucking water constantly from the saucers.) eliminated the spider mite thread, but... when moving the plants into the trays it became apparent that i have some new type of pest. not sure what it is... they seem to hang out in the soil and i see one skittering around the base of the bags or topsoil from time to time. root aphids, i am told, do not fly at all... so i dont think thats the problem. maybe just 'aphids' /shrugs
anyway - ill be figuring out what to do about that soon. would seem that the azatrol didnt help with them. or maybe it did - but i should give another good spray down. i am thinking of adding nematodes to their next water as well, definately wouldnt hurt.
i gave a dose of bloom nutes yesterday. they included Multi-zyme, Root Excellerator, Pirahna, Mother Earth Super Tea, Sensi Cal/Mg Bloom, Purple Maxx, and Molasses.
i was still having a very high ppm runoff reading... flushed before giving the bloom nutes (once they were in the trays) and got the run off down to 900ppm @ 5.8pH.
after dosing with the bloom tea and letting sit overnight, i took a reading tonight that shows the runoff at 6.7pH and 1600ppm. going to let the girls dry out really well, then flush with straight RO water again, drain, and let sit again. then will set my watering timer on automatic for 10 minutes every 72 hours.
ready for pics? lets do it!
damnit. still having problems with my pics. sucks ass. who can i contact about this... is there an admin i can pm? i went to chat and no help
--edit--
ill update pics soon. im tired. by the way... i see buds!! love when they just start to show. kinda when the smell begins too
lets see... alot has happened. i bought 2 ebb & flow trays so that i can water/flush without as much worry of overflow (or without as much work as sucking water constantly from the saucers.) eliminated the spider mite thread, but... when moving the plants into the trays it became apparent that i have some new type of pest. not sure what it is... they seem to hang out in the soil and i see one skittering around the base of the bags or topsoil from time to time. root aphids, i am told, do not fly at all... so i dont think thats the problem. maybe just 'aphids' /shrugs
anyway - ill be figuring out what to do about that soon. would seem that the azatrol didnt help with them. or maybe it did - but i should give another good spray down. i am thinking of adding nematodes to their next water as well, definately wouldnt hurt.
i gave a dose of bloom nutes yesterday. they included Multi-zyme, Root Excellerator, Pirahna, Mother Earth Super Tea, Sensi Cal/Mg Bloom, Purple Maxx, and Molasses.
i was still having a very high ppm runoff reading... flushed before giving the bloom nutes (once they were in the trays) and got the run off down to 900ppm @ 5.8pH.
after dosing with the bloom tea and letting sit overnight, i took a reading tonight that shows the runoff at 6.7pH and 1600ppm. going to let the girls dry out really well, then flush with straight RO water again, drain, and let sit again. then will set my watering timer on automatic for 10 minutes every 72 hours.
ready for pics? lets do it!
damnit. still having problems with my pics. sucks ass. who can i contact about this... is there an admin i can pm? i went to chat and no help
--edit--
ill update pics soon. im tired. by the way... i see buds!! love when they just start to show. kinda when the smell begins too
Last edited:
threeeleven
Active member
Very nice garden - can't wait to see them in full bloom
