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240v is it more effecient

HeadyPete

Take Five...
Veteran
Yes they do alternate, that's why it is called AC - alternating current.

:deadhorse:deadhorse:deadhorse (finally get to use the dead horse graphic)

110V has a hot and neutral, carrying the full amperage (9 amps) first down the hot (black) then opposite on the neutral (white), alternating 60 times a second, hence 60 hertz.

240 has two hots (blacks) with the voltage pushing 4.5 amps down one, then the other, 60 times a second. That's why the meter sees it on both. The meter measures an RMS value, if it could sample faster than 60 hz (and your eye could perceive faster than 60 times per second), you would see the amps rise and fall on each leg. Don't always believe what you see. If this was not the case than any electro magnetic device (ie motor, wall wart adapter, anything with a transformer) would not function. These devices rely on the rise and collapse of the magnetic field to induce current in secondary windings (transformer) or use the magnetic force to drive a shaft (motor).

Learn the theory, understand ohm's law, then give advice before you get someone killed.

Forget the meter. It only tells half the story.

Once again, volts and amps are inversely proportionate, as in when one rises, the other falls like a see saw. P (power in watts) = I (current in amps) X E (voltage in volts).

This is basic electrical fact. Look it up. Alternating current.
 
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The Dopest

[THC] True Hippie Coonass
Veteran
I used to run a 9 kW grow for living. Maybe that isn't the biggest show in the world, but I think it qualifies me as a "pro."

im not tryin to start shit but 9k dont make you a "pro", especially half assin with 9 individual mechanical timers.

ya'll just be safe, dont monkey around power lines :bashhead:
 

sonoma

Active member
Well, I wasn't going to say anything, but since you did......

I can't really tell from the photo which timers you're using, but I don't think those are rated to run 1000w, and looks like a good place to start a fire. That is where most fires start, a common mistake. I could be wrong, but it is worth checking out.
 
D

DB2004

I'm the first to admit I misunderstood a concept rated to electrical. 240V is more practical because voltage and amperage switches 60 times a second (60Hz), the direction of current/voltage. So in theory it's only drawing amperage half of time. If 120V is a hot and neutral, and it changes direction 60 times a second, then only half the time the current is running one way, then the voltage. Does that mean you're not constantly drawing current, only drawing half the time 30/60, current is rotating direction. As the amperage changes direction on a 240V ballast and is drawing @ 4.5A on one 120V leg, then is it drawing the 240V on the other 120V leg and then rotates this every 1/60 of a second. Doesn't 120V do the same thing. Two 120V feeds, one has to act as a neutral then. Here's my next question. If you have a service panel rated for 100A, then it's rated for 100A per 120V hot. If you wired 1000W ballasts for 120V, you could run 20 (10 per 120V) each ballast drawing about 10A on the service panel. I know it's past the 80% load max. Now if those ballasts are wired for 240V of the same service panel, the panel is still only 100A @ 240V. The total number of 240V ballasts would also be 20 ballasts (20 x 5A = 100A).

Best Regards

DB2004
 

cocktail frank

Ubiquitous
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
HeadyPete said:
Learn the theory, understand ohm's law, then give advice before you get someone killed.
i don't want to break your balls, but i am an electrician by trade.
liscenced and state certified. the whole nine yards.
i've given out more good advice on this site than you could shake a stick at.
helped more people wire their grows than you think.
i mean i even have an electrical safety thread for christ's sake.
i think i know how ohm's law works, have to know it like the back of my hand.
you sure do fire big bullets for an audio guy.
i'm glad you understand electricity like you do, its good knowledge to have.
 

HeadyPete

Take Five...
Veteran
Hey I apologize if I offended you. That was not my intention. Alot of people here do not understand electricity and that is one place you need to know what you are doing, no room for mistakes.

The whole point at the beginning was that the 240 v ballast draws the same current as the 120v version at the same wattage and this is false.

DB2004 said:
A 240V ballast (1000watts) draws same amperage as 120V ballast. With 240V, the amperage is split in two over both 120V hots. Each 120V is carrying approximately 4.5A (x2) is 9A. 120V ballast draws 9A. There is a misconception about this, you are still drawing 9 Amps. It's not that you have 240V hot and a neutral, it's two 120V feeds.

Best Regards

DB


It was not my intention to start a pissing match, again I apologize.

How do you stand on the tech points of the conversation, mainly the above quoted comment and the current draw of the device at the different voltages?
 
G

Guest

This is entertaining,sometimes I wish things electrical went right over my head lol but unfortuantely I made a career choice.Everything I've read has been correct as far as I can see and I dont know what the difference of opinion is lol.The only thing I saw that wasn't correct,but he went on to explain correctly,was when DB said that a 240V ballast draws the same amperage as a 120V ballast.Other than that I must be missing the conflicting ideas somewhere.I also must admit I've never seen a multiple 1K grow timed in that matter and not in my neighborhood hopefully..
 

cocktail frank

Ubiquitous
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
none taken buddy, just stating my case.
i really like to see people here who actually know whats going in.
i see where db is coming from with is quote, it really is kinda correct in a sense.
in a previous post you said that 120 x 9a =1080w, but it shoulda been 240 x 4.5a=1080. same number. that was basically my indifference.
 
G

Guest

This is the correct formula for ohm's law purtaining to an ac circuit with 4 parameters. I looked it up.

Vl = line voltage (volts),
Vp = phase voltage (volts),
Il = line current (amps),
Ip = phase current (amps)
Z = impedance (ohms),
P = power (watts)
φ = power factor (angle),
VAR = volt-amperes (reactive)

Current (single phase): I = P / Vp×cos φ
Current (3 phase):I = P / √3 Vl×cos φ or I = P/ 3 Vp×cos φ
Power (single phase): P = Vp×Ip×cos φ
Power (3 phase): P = √3 Vl×Il×cos φ or P=√3 Vp×Ip×cos φ
Phase factor PF = cos φ

A 120v ballast has one side of the primary grounded. A 240v ballast is linear. Peace
 

sonoma

Active member
Well, well
Since that is true...this must be true too.


N = R* • fp • ne • fl • fi • fc • L


Where,

N = The number of civilizations in The Milky Way Galaxy whose electromagnetic emissions are detectable.

R* =The rate of formation of stars suitable for the development of intelligent life.

fp = The fraction of those stars with planetary systems.

ne = The number of planets, per solar system, with an environment suitable for life.

fl = The fraction of suitable planets on which life actually appears.

fi = The fraction of life bearing planets on which intelligent life emerges.

fc = The fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space.

L = The length of time such civilizations release detectable signals into space.


And that's that! :Bolt:
 

Stealthy

Member
DB2004 said:
A 240V ballast (1000watts) draws same amperage as 120V ballast. With 240V, the amperage is split in two over both 120V hots. Each 120V is carrying approximately 4.5A (x2) is 9A. 120V ballast draws 9A. There is a misconception about this, you are still drawing 9 Amps. It's not that you have 240V hot and a neutral, it's two 120V feeds.

Best Regards

DB

Is this true? I was always under the impression that a 1000 watt ballast wired @ 120v is running bout 9 amps but if you wired it for 240v it would only require about 4.5 amps. I'm confused (doesn't take much I guess).
 
G

Guest

Its not confusing,when you apply 240V the total load is about 4.5A.Its true if you took an ampmeter and checked each wire individually they both are drawing 4.5A for a total load of...4.5A.Thats how the 240V ball bounces.When sizing circuits for anticipated loads only total amperage applies,#12 AWG is rated at 20A and you can pull 16A safely off of it whether its a single hot in a 120 circuit or two hots in a 240V circuit.If you read 16A with an ampmeter on each leg of a 240V circuit you are not reading 32A,you are reading 16A
 

Stealthy

Member
The American,

Your dead F'ing wrong bro.... I don't think you know what your talking about.




Nah just kidding. Got ya for a second :laughing:

Thanks for clearing that up for me.
 
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