R
Rhyolite
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220w pl-l coco scrog cupboard
Researcher
Member
Wow! only 220 watts of pl-l make pretty good buds!
Hey BC - cool! I tend to stick to bottled ferts, fish emulsion, liquid guano, and seasol, so I know what's going on (each is highest in their own element, n, p, k respectively). Coming from hydro it's pretty hard to know what exactly to supply, so I'm slowly getting a grip on things. 
Has anyone seen a P overdose in my leaves? (of which I picked off the worst so you can't see them, lol) because I think I went a little too heavy on the high P guano this time. Still pretty happy though, obviously.
Rhyo, I use it for all my plants, I have vegies in pots outside etc. Everyone has their own way but in general all the soils I mixed up til now have been way too light in ferts, so I generally give them some kind of aerated tea each watering. If they don't need feeding, I just make Bio-bugs tea and bubble for 24 hrs. This is just molasses to feed the stuff in the bio-bugs, which then get dumped on your soil and eat pathogens, cycle nutrients, and generally be all awesome like. It's fungi, bacteria, and enzymes blah blah. Even though there's no real nutrients as such in the tea, it will still help the plants, the microbes are responsible for turning organic matter into plant use-able nutrients, and well, I'll only f*ck up some facts if I explain more but it's very deep, and very interesting. No kidding, it changed my whole view on life. I recommend microbe man's site to get started although in some ways I recommend not reading it because organics is meant to be easy, and some people study it way too much.
I don't even understand half the threads on the organic soil forum here. Molasses is good, no wait, molasses is bad, no wait, P is bad, and it goes on. But generally I try to follow MM's recommendations of what I understand of them, regarding teas. Mixed with a bit of "but I only have a pasta strainer, man" of course, lol.
Normally I'd have a bubbler in the top strainer section too, but I got lazy and it seems to work anyway.
Thanks Researcher and I agree! I think it can only get better though, without my poor conditions. I would estimate that a proper good yield would be about an extra 50% of whatever I get here. Like say if I got 4oz, then I'd expect 6oz when totally dialled.
I got my diatemaceous earth today and will apply tonight, glad I ordered 2 packs! And I got those dunks ordered. Well, they're like granulated dunks, maybe you've seen em? "Bits" or something. But they're the same thing, same company.
Think I should get 2700k in the new project? What are the best pl-l bulbs to get these days? All I can find are Osram or Philips. I'm putting it out there - which kelvins/bulbs/combo would you use? I will have 4 x 36w and most kelvins seem to be available. I can use CFLs or whatever for veg so the emphasis would be on flowering for sure. Thoughts?
Has anyone seen a P overdose in my leaves? (of which I picked off the worst so you can't see them, lol) because I think I went a little too heavy on the high P guano this time. Still pretty happy though, obviously.Rhyo, I use it for all my plants, I have vegies in pots outside etc. Everyone has their own way but in general all the soils I mixed up til now have been way too light in ferts, so I generally give them some kind of aerated tea each watering. If they don't need feeding, I just make Bio-bugs tea and bubble for 24 hrs. This is just molasses to feed the stuff in the bio-bugs, which then get dumped on your soil and eat pathogens, cycle nutrients, and generally be all awesome like. It's fungi, bacteria, and enzymes blah blah. Even though there's no real nutrients as such in the tea, it will still help the plants, the microbes are responsible for turning organic matter into plant use-able nutrients, and well, I'll only f*ck up some facts if I explain more but it's very deep, and very interesting. No kidding, it changed my whole view on life. I recommend microbe man's site to get started although in some ways I recommend not reading it because organics is meant to be easy, and some people study it way too much.
I don't even understand half the threads on the organic soil forum here. Molasses is good, no wait, molasses is bad, no wait, P is bad, and it goes on. But generally I try to follow MM's recommendations of what I understand of them, regarding teas.
Mixed with a bit of "but I only have a pasta strainer, man" of course, lol.Normally I'd have a bubbler in the top strainer section too, but I got lazy and it seems to work anyway.
Thanks Researcher and I agree! I think it can only get better though, without my poor conditions. I would estimate that a proper good yield would be about an extra 50% of whatever I get here. Like say if I got 4oz, then I'd expect 6oz when totally dialled.
I got my diatemaceous earth today and will apply tonight, glad I ordered 2 packs! And I got those dunks ordered. Well, they're like granulated dunks, maybe you've seen em? "Bits" or something. But they're the same thing, same company.
Think I should get 2700k in the new project? What are the best pl-l bulbs to get these days? All I can find are Osram or Philips. I'm putting it out there - which kelvins/bulbs/combo would you use? I will have 4 x 36w and most kelvins seem to be available. I can use CFLs or whatever for veg so the emphasis would be on flowering for sure. Thoughts?
Great job on the brewing of ya tea scrubz, you are mixing it up like a pro, and oh don't the plants luv that shit when you give it to 'em hey? Fucking magic at work right there, I get the best results of growth and vigour from doing exactly the same thing, it's Mother Nature's gentle kick up the arse 
with love and biobugs etc.
Finally decided to use molasses in the last couple of waterings for the three I'm picking soon, I haven't ever used it before, but they definitely have upped their smell output and not sure if I can visually tell much difference
with flash
no flash
might bring chop date to sun 13th(2 days early), but the one on the left just keeps going and throwing more white hairs, none of these plants have been fed for close to a month(except the molasses with ph'd water), so tempted to go to 
day with that one, the other two are at the finish line waiting.
If you have had a P def in your plants bro I haven't seen 'em, because ya BUDS ARE TOO DANK and I can't see anything else
Happy Gardening Bro.
Peace.
with love and biobugs etc.Finally decided to use molasses in the last couple of waterings for the three I'm picking soon, I haven't ever used it before, but they definitely have upped their smell output and not sure if I can visually tell much difference
day with that one, the other two are at the finish line waiting.If you have had a P def in your plants bro I haven't seen 'em, because ya BUDS ARE TOO DANK and I can't see anything else
Happy Gardening Bro.
Peace.
aw hellz yeah!!! Nice work buddy! What do you think you'll get?You know what, (and I don't mean to be critical in any way, I'm just an analytical person, lol) but I don't buy that stuff that it makes it taste better etc. I mean, I haven't used it much myself, but scientifically speaking, it has "stuff" in it like magnesium. Have you ever set magnesium on fire? It seems strange to me to use it for flush when you're trying to remove everything. I give some in early flush but I stopped with the molasses probably a week or so ago.
Just my take on it. I doubt it makes much difference either way
I'll try to get some pics of the leaves but I think it's cleared up to normal yellowing ala flush.Also I just got a new bottle of molasses today
a bigger bottle. I get as much thrill from buying a new bottle of molasses as I used to get buying a new bottle of hydro nutes, haha. :
basscadet
Member
Yeah i see where you're coming from with the additives, I think teas are something that needs to be dialed-in, the more you do, the more you learn and can experiment with.
I always thought molasses at flush was to feed the microbes in the soil potassium... Maybe I need to search more, it just seems to be the thing everyone here does at the end of the cycle.
I always thought molasses at flush was to feed the microbes in the soil potassium... Maybe I need to search more, it just seems to be the thing everyone here does at the end of the cycle.
New molasses:
The Pure: (not coming down yet btw in case I forgot to mention)
Leda Uno:
ATWxPD:
Merry weekend Oh, the gnats are totally under control just from drying the soil out I don't think I'll apply the DE, just the dunk bits, if anything. Might use the DE outside on the veggies though.
Basscadet, well, it's the same thing really...I'm sure potassium isn't helping with a clean taste either. Aren't we trying to remove all the nutrients? Also, if the microbes are part of the plant's food cycle, then we probably wouldn't be benefiting much from them at flush stage anyway? That's how I read it anyhow I never follow what everyone else says to do, heh, they're all potheads. I could give you a laundry list of common things that get repeated all the time that I disagree with. Don't get me started, lol. Peace.
The Pure: (not coming down yet btw in case I forgot to mention)
Leda Uno:
ATWxPD:
Merry weekend
Oh, the gnats are totally under control just from drying the soil out I don't think I'll apply the DE, just the dunk bits, if anything. Might use the DE outside on the veggies though.Basscadet, well, it's the same thing really...I'm sure potassium isn't helping with a clean taste either. Aren't we trying to remove all the nutrients? Also, if the microbes are part of the plant's food cycle, then we probably wouldn't be benefiting much from them at flush stage anyway? That's how I read it anyhow
I never follow what everyone else says to do, heh, they're all potheads. I could give you a laundry list of common things that get repeated all the time that I disagree with. Don't get me started, lol. Peace.hey scrub,
In organic soil, flushing is not necessary (I know, sounds insane). It always struck me as odd that "nutrients" get the blame for harshness. Harshness is first of all dependent on strain, then curing, then lastly on things we don't understand - this includes nutrition. That aside, in organic soil you have no control whatsoever over plant available nutrients. The plant sends signals to the critters around your roots, and they take orders for nutrients in exchange for sugar. The nutrients delivered to your plant have been stored in the soil, but in the form of living organisms. So water can't wash them away, and there is probably enough there for more than one grow.
I think quite a few people have observed harshness that is associated with excessive ionic nutrients. If you overly enrich organic soil, to the point where you are causing the same problem, flushing can't help you. Nothing can, short of a bare root transplant. I am always "flushing" all my plants, from day 1. Yet my plants have no deficiencies, my soil can support more than one grow, and my weed is as harsh or smooth as anyones before it is cured properly.
In organic soil, flushing is not necessary (I know, sounds insane). It always struck me as odd that "nutrients" get the blame for harshness. Harshness is first of all dependent on strain, then curing, then lastly on things we don't understand - this includes nutrition. That aside, in organic soil you have no control whatsoever over plant available nutrients. The plant sends signals to the critters around your roots, and they take orders for nutrients in exchange for sugar. The nutrients delivered to your plant have been stored in the soil, but in the form of living organisms. So water can't wash them away, and there is probably enough there for more than one grow.
I think quite a few people have observed harshness that is associated with excessive ionic nutrients. If you overly enrich organic soil, to the point where you are causing the same problem, flushing can't help you. Nothing can, short of a bare root transplant. I am always "flushing" all my plants, from day 1. Yet my plants have no deficiencies, my soil can support more than one grow, and my weed is as harsh or smooth as anyones before it is cured properly.
Erk...mj, I've been hoping you would drop some science on here, except it's stuff I disagree with! How awkward! : Thank you though, and I hope I don't come across as an argumentative newb.
My first thought to that is....how come guano makes your buds taste like crap? I can't verify that it does, but I stopped the guano before I stopped the molasses for that reason on this current grow. I saw it posted many times I'm sure. Chicken shit can affect the taste as well. Too many reports to discredit it.
"Harshness is first of all dependent on strain, then curing, then lastly on things we don't understand - this includes nutrition." - I don't understand how you can understand it if we don't understand it
I thought with an organic fert the soil life eats away the organic molecule (or whatever) leaving the pure ionic form? Wouldn't it be the same element that is taken up by the plant? Or does this not happen? That's how it was simplified for me early on.
Can't things be organic and ionic? In my (organic) molasses as we can see is sodium, isn't that ionic and would need a flush?
But anyway, hmmmm, it would take a lot of convincing to get me not to flush on the first grow. But I'll definitely do some side-by-sides when I have clones. And feel free to beat me with the clue stick if needed. Have you done a strict side-by-side regarding this? I know the experts laugh at guys saying they want to flush their organics so maybe there's something obvious I've missed but I'll never be certain until I've side-by-sided it. A scientific book explanation doesn't convince me enough. As MM says in his sig - anybody can be wrong about anything.
Seriously though thanks for chiming in.
Edit: I think I also read how organic N gets taken up even without microbes? Wouldn't that need to be flushed out?
Edit edit: upon further reading of your post, we may just be comprehending flushing differently. I call it flushing but really I mean a tailing off of feeding, over a longer period than a hydro flush. If it helps, I understand that the physical act of pouring water through the soil in the last week or two will only get rid of a small amount of organic nutrients if any, and they're probably a part of the cycle by that stage anyway.
: Thank you though, and I hope I don't come across as an argumentative newb.My first thought to that is....how come guano makes your buds taste like crap? I can't verify that it does, but I stopped the guano before I stopped the molasses for that reason on this current grow. I saw it posted many times I'm sure. Chicken shit can affect the taste as well. Too many reports to discredit it.
"Harshness is first of all dependent on strain, then curing, then lastly on things we don't understand - this includes nutrition." - I don't understand how you can understand it if we don't understand it
I thought with an organic fert the soil life eats away the organic molecule (or whatever) leaving the pure ionic form? Wouldn't it be the same element that is taken up by the plant? Or does this not happen? That's how it was simplified for me early on.
Can't things be organic and ionic? In my (organic) molasses as we can see is sodium, isn't that ionic and would need a flush?
But anyway, hmmmm, it would take a lot of convincing to get me not to flush on the first grow. But I'll definitely do some side-by-sides when I have clones. And feel free to beat me with the clue stick if needed.
Have you done a strict side-by-side regarding this? I know the experts laugh at guys saying they want to flush their organics so maybe there's something obvious I've missed but I'll never be certain until I've side-by-sided it. A scientific book explanation doesn't convince me enough. As MM says in his sig - anybody can be wrong about anything. Seriously though thanks for chiming in.
Edit: I think I also read how organic N gets taken up even without microbes? Wouldn't that need to be flushed out?
Edit edit: upon further reading of your post, we may just be comprehending flushing differently. I call it flushing but really I mean a tailing off of feeding, over a longer period than a hydro flush. If it helps, I understand that the physical act of pouring water through the soil in the last week or two will only get rid of a small amount of organic nutrients if any, and they're probably a part of the cycle by that stage anyway.
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Hey bro, I'm agreeing with you, in all the years of outdoor growing and mixing my own soils, I have never flushed with anything except ph'd water, the soil mix should be able to provide what is required for the final flowering stages. Harshness of final product with no flush, personally YES everytime I didn't flush/or not properly, the end product was harsher(even with a 6mth cure), So I don't understand the complete science of it all (even explain myself properly) but I cant work out why you would feed/boost(mol-asses) the plant in the final stages of flower and flushing, but like you say bro there is a lot of people on here that do, and don't, so I had to give it a go just to see for myself.
And will def be on here letting the peeps know how it all turns out, cause I'm flushing with mole-asses and water(ph'd 6.0) with my three plants in previous posts and have added it to my flowering cab feeding regime for the other 6 females and 2 males that are in there, just those plants for now will get the mole-asses until they finish. Here's hoping I don't fuck it up newbie style cause it's all new to me and the organics section can be such a head fuck but in a good way cause we are all here to learn and share. Hope I make some sense bro as my back is fucking me over pain wise, it's 3 am and can't sleep, time to medicate again 
Peace.
Edit: By the way your PD x TW's are looking quite stunning in the veg cab, it's gunna be fun to see you crank 'em bro already the difference between yours and mine are quite noticeable, the TW genetics is going to bush out majorly and topping them was a good idea i reckon.
And will def be on here letting the peeps know how it all turns out, cause I'm flushing with mole-asses and water(ph'd 6.0) with my three plants in previous posts and have added it to my flowering cab feeding regime for the other 6 females and 2 males that are in there, just those plants for now will get the mole-asses until they finish. Here's hoping I don't fuck it up newbie style cause it's all new to me and the organics section can be such a head fuck
but in a good way cause we are all here to learn and share. Hope I make some sense bro as my back is fucking me over pain wise, it's 3 am and can't sleep, time to medicate again Peace.
Edit: By the way your PD x TW's are looking quite stunning in the veg cab, it's gunna be fun to see you crank 'em bro already the difference between yours and mine are quite noticeable, the TW genetics is going to bush out majorly and topping them was a good idea i reckon.
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Remember i flush from seed, so I don't quite disagree with you guys.
Scrub, I think you and I both agree that too much ionic N is a bad thing, and makes bad smoke. My methods do not involve guano or any other uncomposted manure in my containers. I do use bone and blood, but that is incorporated into the microorganisms. I turn my kitchen scraps into humus and microorganisms loaded with nutrients, and that is part of my soil too. What nitrates are present are in the rhizosphere only, where they do not wash away, and where they are managed by the relationship between plant and soil to a large degree.
Since I flush from the very first day, maybe giving fish hydrolysate or some more worm compost a few times throughout the grow, there is no way for me to stop the flow of nutes if I want to. I have almost zero control after I mix up my soil, and i can grow more than one to flower in the same soil without amending. Yet the buds taste perfectly fine.
If you are in the MJ cultivation culture, you will get steered towards guano tea and other methods very familiar to conventional gardeners. But it's the outrageously simple and cheap methods that make it worthwhile. Like just adding water.
Scrub, I think you and I both agree that too much ionic N is a bad thing, and makes bad smoke. My methods do not involve guano or any other uncomposted manure in my containers. I do use bone and blood, but that is incorporated into the microorganisms. I turn my kitchen scraps into humus and microorganisms loaded with nutrients, and that is part of my soil too. What nitrates are present are in the rhizosphere only, where they do not wash away, and where they are managed by the relationship between plant and soil to a large degree.
Since I flush from the very first day, maybe giving fish hydrolysate or some more worm compost a few times throughout the grow, there is no way for me to stop the flow of nutes if I want to. I have almost zero control after I mix up my soil, and i can grow more than one to flower in the same soil without amending. Yet the buds taste perfectly fine.
If you are in the MJ cultivation culture, you will get steered towards guano tea and other methods very familiar to conventional gardeners. But it's the outrageously simple and cheap methods that make it worthwhile. Like just adding water.
Thanks for the input fellas, the debate rages on
Mj I think like most arguments, it's more of a perception thing. As long as you don't pour ferts on a week before harvest, then I think I understand, even if we have different methods of achieving the final result. Still though, I reckon you understate how much control you have over the herd. If you let the soil dry out, won't they cease activity and stop supplying the plant food?
Boom, you could dip your girls in battery acid and still have the boominest plants around I stopped checking or adjusting ph altogether now, even on The Pure. I always ph'd my flush water in coco/hydro-nutes, but this time I just pour straight dechlorinated tap water on.
The only time I can see myself using my ph meter again is when I finally get around to the EM. Now that I have more molasses I should start that!
And yeah mate, the PDs are doing ok. They're getting a bit stretchy from having 10 plants under 72w, lol. But the high kelvins are helping massively I feel. I still ain't sexed 'em so it will be a happy day when the males are gone. Once I know the fems I will lst them all into a perfectly flat canopy and the strechiness will have worked to my advantage. Otherwise it could resemble this:
Mj I think like most arguments, it's more of a perception thing. As long as you don't pour ferts on a week before harvest, then I think I understand, even if we have different methods of achieving the final result. Still though, I reckon you understate how much control you have over the herd. If you let the soil dry out, won't they cease activity and stop supplying the plant food?
Boom, you could dip your girls in battery acid and still have the boominest plants around
I stopped checking or adjusting ph altogether now, even on The Pure. I always ph'd my flush water in coco/hydro-nutes, but this time I just pour straight dechlorinated tap water on.The only time I can see myself using my ph meter again is when I finally get around to the EM. Now that I have more molasses I should start that!
And yeah mate, the PDs are doing ok. They're getting a bit stretchy from having 10 plants under 72w, lol. But the high kelvins are helping massively I feel. I still ain't sexed 'em so it will be a happy day when the males are gone.
Once I know the fems I will lst them all into a perfectly flat canopy and the strechiness will have worked to my advantage. Otherwise it could resemble this:Yeah scrub, if I let it dry out the herd will go to sleep or die. but that's unthinkable so I don't do that!
I don't pour any ferts on, at any point, except light fish hydrolysate maybe 3 times in a grow. Nothing. Nada. And there is enough nitrogen in there to last 2 grows or more. So I would never have a reason to pour stuff on before harvest.
Ever grown oregano? if the soil is rich, there is no taste. well with cannabis if your soil is too rich you get crap weed. but if you establish a balanced, self-regulating system, it's not an issue.
I don't pour any ferts on, at any point, except light fish hydrolysate maybe 3 times in a grow. Nothing. Nada. And there is enough nitrogen in there to last 2 grows or more. So I would never have a reason to pour stuff on before harvest.
Ever grown oregano? if the soil is rich, there is no taste. well with cannabis if your soil is too rich you get crap weed. but if you establish a balanced, self-regulating system, it's not an issue.
Tagged for life
Awww thank you soc! Wasn't expecting that, hehe. Thanks for following, this has been an enormous amount of fun most of the way. Some real good vibes goin' down in here.
Mj, understood
and I just applied the DE outside on selected pots although frankly, there's no problems. It was a massive wave of gnats which seems to have subsided. They occured after some rain so that was probably related.
In fact they seem to be all gone, however temporarily that may be. These things put the fun in fungus gnats. 
I dropped down to 2x55w (4000k) now to wind things down and save electricity. It's still hella bright in there. Also took it back to exactly 12/12.
I'm currently swaying around 4 to 4.5 oz
I dropped down to 2x55w (4000k) now to wind things down and save electricity. It's still hella bright in there. Also took it back to exactly 12/12.
I'm currently swaying around 4 to 4.5 oz
Here are 3 males that have shown themselves amongst the ATWxPD. 37 days old from sprout.
I'll keep the centre one if nothing better shows up.
I'm doing spinach in this...I put DE on and around the holes but I think I was too light handed? I need a pepper shaker. They seem to be buzzing around the holes like they don't wanna go in but I'm not certain, as I only filled the pot yesterday.
I'll keep the centre one if nothing better shows up.
I'm doing spinach in this...I put DE on and around the holes but I think I was too light handed? I need a pepper shaker. They seem to be buzzing around the holes like they don't wanna go in but I'm not certain, as I only filled the pot yesterday.
loke whoa. that bush is looking super fine now. wow wow wow.
nice fucking plant bro!!
Yo brotha Ninj, You might be aware but DE won't kill the adults. What it will kill is the ones in transition. When they come out of larval stage, they crawl out of the soil. This is where DE cuts their skin and dries em out. Hope it works for ya.
