220v Dryer Outlet > 110v Standard..Help!!

[Buzzsmirk!]

also another GFCI point very applicable to your potential situation.
very old branch circuits (existing) that predate grounding conductors being part of the "plan"
the oldtimers would run this two conductor stuff,some knob n tube, some w/ cellulose(paper) insulation.
when posed with an outlet or outlets that r w/o a ground conductor the "CODE" allows (or used to allow) the installation of a GFCI to act as it was designed and protect the user/structure from ground faults.
article 250 NEC is a large article (many, many pages) all of it on grounding , grounding can be a complex subject to say the least.
another point about the cold water connection, people (plumbers) have died (electrocution) by simply digging up the copper pipe and cutting it open to do work on it. The pipe was acting as the neuteral for the building served and carrying current back to ground. the poor SOB grabs both sides of the cut pipe and BLAMO circuit completes again makin the plumber do the "Ted Bundy shuffle"!!!! this could affect you by opening an existing ground bond too if carrying load current instead of the neuteral as an earlier poster commented about usin the ground wire for ur neuteral
not a good scene!!!!
why!??? cuzz the building had serious grounding problems to begin with!!!!
BUZZ!

 

[Guest]

Well,how many wires do you have in the box?If the electrician was smart,he ran a 10/ 3 wire w/g ,this way you can easily change out to 4 wire if you get a new dryer

 

[Guest]

I'm curious now

 

[GirlWonderGrows]

In terms of using a ground for your neutral, its hard to get away with these days. The power company will notice that no electricity is getting returned, and charge you in KVA, rather than KW. KVA measures the disruption in the returned power, and it would be complete if you were just pumping your neutral into the ground. This sometimes happens to growers with inefficent ballasts, which can also cause distortion on the line.

On the other hand, wouldn't you notice something was wrong when you turned on the water if a cold water pipe was live?

 

[Buzzsmirk!]

In terms of using a ground for your neutral, its hard to get away with these days. The power company will notice that no electricity is getting returned, and charge you in KVA, rather than KW. KVA measures the disruption in the returned power, and it would be complete if you were just pumping your neutral into the ground. This sometimes happens to growers with inefficent ballasts, which can also cause distortion on the line.

On the other hand, wouldn't you notice something was wrong when you turned on the water if a cold water pipe was live?

the power company dosent own or operate the "ground"
no one has advocted using the ground bond conductor for the "neuteral"
if they have THEY BE VERY WRONG!! as i outlined above.

the term neuteral is a "grounded conductor that carries the load imballance"
meaning in a 220/240 circuit with one pole pullin 10 amps and the other pullin
13 amps u would have an imballance of 3 amps this is the "neuteral's" function in a 220 circuit/ single phase panel!!
the white wire in a 120 vac outlet technically is NOT a neuteral but is most commonly refered to as one , this will quesion will get ya on an EXAM!!
the current on the line side equals the current on the grounded conductor (white wire) most incorrectly /universally refered to as a neuteral.
NO imballance there?????
GFCIs work the differnce between the line side and white side
if they dont match (to within 6 milliamps) it opens the circuit!!

most meters are just inductive sensors measuring wattage/power
unless ur meter has a "fifth jaw" (kinda rare round my parts) its "clueless"as to the quality of your ground potential. the NEUTERAL on the utility side just gets bonded to the "static" wire on the pole whichhas its own ground rod too,
if your cold water pipe is carrying load current to ground!!! not to you/your fixtures, you would probably never notice unless your drain pipe is a better ground source than the cold side ( scary thought!) . the most likly scenario for that occuring would be someone disconncting the "grounding electrode conductor" from the rod (electrode) and the "ground bonding conductor" attached/bonded to the cold water pipe remains connected thus carying ur "unballanced" load to ground, are you scaredc to touch a ground rod in service??? no of course not!!! just be very careful if u choose to open that connection cuzz u may become the current path which unfortunately can kill an unaware person OR plumber if the cold water pipe is now functioning as your "grounding electrode".
BTW; for this to be real dangerous the utility neuteral has become detached
too, usually related to the "grounding electrode" become disconnected too
(same point) ussually!!

BUZZ!

 

[Buzzsmirk!]

"girlie", before u counter my post with ur .02 about indutive and capacitive phase shifts as they relate to power factors and the meter's capabilities , lets acknowledge we are getting off topic
too much already!!
this thread is to help someone convert an existing dryer outlet w/ a number of conductors yet to be determined ( 3 or 4 )
if the "glassmaster" has three insulated conductors he can use GFCIs and elimnate the
"ground bonding conductor"/equipment ground as the GFCI would satisfy the code
and add an extra measure of safety in a hydroponic setup. NOT IDEAL BUT COMPLIANT
and yes i second your gesture about peeps on ICMAG whom have trade knowledge like ourselves helping others.
my biggest fear is showing some peeps just enough to be dangerous cuzz face it this is a grow site and electrical advice over the net w/o all the details needed in most cases to give 100% safe./accurate advice. its the details we didnt ask/know about that could hurt someone, burn their place down, maybe even fatality(ies).
thats why i often tell peeps not to mess with it and call a pro/electrician as it is often
the safest option for all concerned.
did you learn this trade over the net???? not me either!!!!! and its impractical to give
advice to laymen other than simple stuff, (BTW what's simple to us baffles laymen often)

OK im off the soap BOX
BUZZ!

 

[Guest]

I cant see where anyone ever suggested using the ground wire as a curreny carrying neutral,if someone mistook me for saying that let me say I would never consider it.I'm just curious as to the number of conductors in the box,thats all.I do commercial work but 20 years ago I started out as a romex jockey wiring homes and I do remember running 10/3 w/g to the 3 wire dryer outlets in case they do a dryer upgrade.I'm curious if this is the case here.If so a 30A panel would be so easy to mount directly over the box.I love it when people ask for help and say they'll be back tomorrow with pertinent info then never show up again,makes you wonder why you want to help in the first place.

 

[Buzzsmirk!]

u r cool dude

u r cool dude

I cant see where anyone ever suggested using the ground wire as a curreny carrying neutral,if someone mistook me for saying that let me say I would never consider it.I'm just curious as to the number of conductors in the box,thats all.I do commercial work but 20 years ago I started out as a romex jockey wiring homes and I do remember running 10/3 w/g to the 3 wire dryer outlets in case they do a dryer upgrade.I'm curious if this is the case here.If so a 30A panel would be so easy to mount directly over the box.I love it when people ask for help and say they'll be back tomorrow with pertinent info then never show up again,makes you wonder why you want to help in the first place.

i did'nt "fire a shot accross ur bow!!" bro.
i know ur "tight" in the "trade"
i am buzzed and a smirkin like alwayS

lets hope he didnt hurt himself, i may have overemphasized that point a bit as i re read the thread and didnt find it either
BUZZ!

 

[stonewall]

The reason I keep emphasizing it is because I have come across many a range/dryer outlet that uses the bare ground as a current carrying conductor. This was allowed for direct wired range/dryer outlets for some time. However it is not allowed for subpanel instalations,especially I think for growrooms.


toke it easy

 

[Guest]

Thanks you guys very much for the help, Its appreciated a great deal. W'ell I opened the 220v Box and I saw 2 hots a neutral and a bare ground...I believe this is 10/3...I did the operation "live" because I had no access to turn the power off...That is why I wanted the sub-panel with the male plug chord...But I grew some balls and just ended up hardwiring a piece of 12-2 straight into the 220v....I used the black for a hot the white for neutral and bare for the ground. I used a GFCI receptacle and things work Great... I have yet to wire a second 120v GFCI to the "other" Hot red wire because I read somewhere that the 2 Hots in a 220V were of opposite polarity...If so Which one is the neg. polarity? And does it matter? Thanks Again For Keeping me safe

 

[stonewall]

opposite polarity, No, out of phase yes. It doesn't matter, just follow the directions for the gfci and test it to be certain.

you sould have 20 amp overload protection for your gfci outlets. don't rely on the dryer breaker.

 

[Buzzsmirk!]

opposite polarity, No, out of phase yes. It doesn't matter, just follow the directions for the gfci and test it to be certain.

you sould have 20 amp overload protection for your gfci outlets. don't rely on the dryer breaker.

good "minds eye" "general jackson"

gassmaster, stone wall wants u to go to the home store and buy two single pole 20 amp breakers and u rip out the existing 220 two pole breaker (30 amp) and put the breakers in .

do you feel comfortable about performing this task?, the main thing is to respect that buss!!!!!
we can walk u thru it easilly , just respect the buss!!!!

the "buss" is the main "backbones" (two) going down your pannelboxes that all ur breakers snapin/screw into for their power "on tap", it can ruin ur day faster than thinkin "why did i touch that thing?"
BUZZ!!!

 

[Guest]

my panel has the old work screw in fuses..

 

[Buzzsmirk!]

my panel has the old work screw in fuses..

well!!! thats enlightening!!!

hmmmm!!!!! fuses no breakers??? at all???
you now have me very concerned about the age of your electric service,branch circuits.
your wire's insulation type has a bearing on the wire's ampacity.
older wires have insulation that cannot handle the heat that modern thermal plastic insulation can (THHN can go to 90 deg Celcius), the older wires are the less heat (generally) it can safely take before insulation damage/melting!
w/o ur exact wire type i cannot give u an accurate/finite ampacity for it!!

u/owner should consider a service change to a new panel w/breakers
and possibly replacement of some or all of your branch circuit cabling.

BUZZ!

 

[rastamonunika]

Im in the same boat as you Glassmaster, must be those old fifties houses =P

Gotta love fuses! =)

 

[nUt_jOb]

hey thank you guys for this super awsome thread.. i was looking all over the net for how to turn a 220v dryer connection into 110v and lets just say you guys are about to save me a ton of money and time and effort and a million other things! I was even lucky enough to discover I had the 4 prong plug version of a drier connection.. F'n sweet..

I cant thank you enough.. maybe i will post pics of the bastard box i build for this.. AWSOME!

 

[Guest]

When you use a 240 circuit to divide into two 120V circuits,they definately should be on their own breaker,otherwise if you have a problem with one of the circuits and the breaker trips,its going to kill both circuits.You are also sharing the neutral in this situation,the neutral will be carrying the unbalance load of the two circuits.Another words if one circuit is drawing 15 amps and one circuit is drawing 10 amps,the neutral will have a 5 amp load on it.If they are each drawing 10 amps or 15 amps,the load on the neutral is zero.In a perfectly balanced electrical setup,you'd have a zero load on the neutral in the main panel,this is an unreal situation though electricians try and keep loads balanced as best they can to avoid overloading the noodle