220v Dryer Outlet > 110v Standard..Help!!

[Guest]

I would like to just double check this before i hook it all up. But is it possible, and remain safe? My outlet looks like this:



I plan to but a sub-panel, breakers, gfi's, and 12-2 wire.
Also i plan to but this dryer chord to hook into the sub-panel.


Unless i missed something i plan to hook up like "vt" did in the "range usa thread)
But i am a bit confused, i am using 6/3 wire correct, that means there are 2 hots, do they both go to the panel? also i noticed "vt" put the ground and neutral together inside the panel. is this safe?
Thanks for any help guys, i dont wanna burn the house down.

 

[Guest]

Yes the two hots go on the hot lugs in the panel.Ideally you want your ground and neutral seperated because the neutral is a current carrying conductor,now the dryer plugs are 4 wire by code.If a 3 wire plug is all you have,yea the ground and noodle are tied together.Look in the dryer plug you should have an insulated noodle wire and an uninmsulated ground wire under the same terminal.Check this out for crystal clarity.http://fixitnow.com/appliantology/dryercords.htm

 

[Guest]

 

[stonewall]

if all you have is a 3 wire 240 volt source, then you don't have a 120 volt source. the reason the new dryer outlets have 4 wires is so they have a 120 volt source for the dryer timer and other electronic components. The old dryers were completly 240 volt loads so they didn't need the seperate neutral.


The saftey ground conductor should never be relied on as a current carrying conductor. It is common for the safety ground conductor to be a smaller gauge wire than the current carrying conductors, since it is never carrying current except in a fault situation. the safety ground and the neutral should never be connected together after the main panel. It is just an accident waiting to happen. Think of all the things that are connected to that ground conductor through out the house circuit. If the ground has current on it so does everything that is connected to it.

 

[Buzzsmirk!]

if all you have is a 3 wire 240 volt source, then you don't have a 120 volt source. the reason the new dryer outlets have 4 wires is so they have a 120 volt source for the dryer timer and other electronic components. The old dryers were completly 240 volt loads so they didn't need the seperate neutral.


The saftey ground conductor should never be relied on as a current carrying conductor. It is common for the safety ground conductor to be a smaller gauge wire than the current carrying conductors, since it is never carrying current except in a fault situation. the safety ground and the neutral should never be connected together after the main panel. It is just an accident waiting to happen. Think of all the things that are connected to that ground conductor through out the house circuit. If the ground has current on it so does everything that is connected to it.

stnewall speaks the truth!!!
no neuteral NO 120 VAC unless u go to 120 exclusively (no 220).

article 250 (NEC) is a BIG article, proper grounding is serious shit!!
BTW article 250 mentions NOTHING about letting you convert ur ground bond conductor to a current carring neuteral!!
as "stonewall" said u would be energizing your safetry ground throught out the installation/structure, its not gonna be pretty if someone works on the outlets near your grow andf they get shocked by opening the ground splice!

BUZZ!

 

[GirlWonderGrows]

Speaking as someone who has done this many times...

Speaking as someone who has done this many times...

Ok, the last two posters made some errors.

In a three prong 240 outlet, there are 2 hots (live, electrofied, etc) and a neutral. No ground.
In a four prong outlet, there are 2 hots, a ground and a neutral.

Each of hot 'legs' are 120 volts. When you plug them into a panel, you will be hooking each leg to metal strip in the sub-panel. thus, each side of the 'bus' (the metal strips you connect the circut breakers to) will have 120. On all dryers and stoves, they run the timmers and things off of only one leg, giving 120, rather than both, which would be 240.

You should, however, seperate the ground and neutral in the sub panel. Not doing so if very unlikley to cause any danger, but code requires a seperation in subpanels, and you should always try to conform to code, for saftey and appearences sake. Wouldn't want to be seen as a calous and unconcerned drug producer.

In terms of the cord, I would strongly recommend against the replacment dryer type. Get some SJTW, its like the kind of cord they use for electrical cords, water and kink resistant. I run 40 feet of 10/3 to a 30 amp sub panel, more than 30 amps requires higher gauges. Its important to give youself some slack so you aren't running into the wire and can mount the panel high on the wall. They usualy sell SJTW by the foot, and 10/3 ran me around $1.20 per foot. You can easily get a 3 prong 30 amp plug from an electrical store to put on the end of cable.

Ok, I reread you post. You need 3 wire cable. And as I said above, both do to the panel.

Hope that helps, I've done this many times, post any questions and I'll try to answer.

 

[cadillachydro]

Nothin beats a girl with experience... Nice.

 

[XXX]

if i were you i'd run a ground wire from your new subfeed panel to an earth ground somewhere... like the ground rod near the service entrance, or a new ground rod.. that would save the trouble of replacing the existing feed wire for the drier circuit to 10/3wG. then anything you decide to run off the subfeed would be grouonded without making any modifications to the house wiring..


now if were me i would do it the right way and have a whole new circuit to my room... but it sounds like you might be in a different situation than me.

XXX

 

[Guest]

Very well put girl wonder.If your 3 wire dryer receptacle is like mine,the ground and neutral are tied together under the same terminal,so you dont want to use a 3 wire cord plugged into it if you want to keep your ground and noodle seperated.Why not mount your panel directly over the receptacle box coming into one of the knockouts in the back?This way you can seperate your ground and noodle wires.

 

[Buzzsmirk!]

yes good eye "girlie" , lets hope hes got four wires behind that outlet to make the circuit correct.
BUZZ!

 

[Guest]

The L shaped entry in the old 3 wire dryer receptacles were designed for the neutral wire so you really almost have to have three insulated conductors and an uninsulated ground wire

 

[Buzzsmirk!]

The L shaped entry in the old 3 wire dryer receptacles were designed for the neutral wire so you really almost have to have three insulated conductors and an uninsulated ground wire

i dunno "skull", i've seen "helpers" pull a piece of 10/2 romex to them things.
i am into industrial type work (all in conduit) i havent wired many homes.
BUZZ!

 

[stonewall]

OK, I'll give an inch, but not any further.



Code allows certain deviations under certain circumstances. However, it is beyond our ability to determine whether the circumstances are such that allow certain deviations from standard code with out further inspection of the circuit. So in order to give sound advice that is applicable to everyone, that will not lead to any dangerous situation, I stand by my warning about ever making the bare safety ground conductor to carry current.

toke it easy

 

[Guest]

Its easy enough to unscrew the cover and have a look,more than likely you'll have the neutral andground both under the same terminal.If thats the case thats what I'd use to feed my 30A panel,no cords or plugs just good old hard wired in.

 

[stonewall]

yes, if there are four wires, you are all set.

 

[Guest]

ok...i will check it tomorrow to see if it has 3 or four wires, but i think it has three, i appreciate the help from everyone, i want to do things safe but temporary as well, if i did run a sepearate ground for the panel, would i still tie the neutral and ground from the 220v into the panel???

 

[XXX]

ok...i will check it tomorrow to see if it has 3 or four wires, but i think it has three, i appreciate the help from everyone, i want to do things safe but temporary as well, if i did run a sepearate ground for the panel, would i still tie the neutral and ground from the 220v into the panel???

glassmaster,

if you decide to run a single strand ground wire #10 would be fine. then you will tie your N from the recepticle onto the N bar in the sub feed. And all your N's from your new wiring will tie onto that bar. then your new G wire will tie onto the G bar (or bonding clamp) in the subfeed and all your new wiring G's will tie onto that.

then you will be receiving power from the house panel, but if something shorts out it will goto ground through your new ground wire.

XXX

 

[tuttlebudd]

 

[GirlWonderGrows]

Yeah, XXX put it right. There are probably not 4 wires, what would be the point if there are only 3 prongs?

What I do is use the neutral from the plug, and install a grounding bar which connects to a cold water pipe or grounding rod. Just make yourself a ground, since it isn't being brought in through the dryer outlet.

Its good to see some people with knowlege giving advice on here, reminds me of old times.

 

[Buzzsmirk!]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

yes good eye "girlie" , lets hope hes got four wires behind that outlet to make the circuit correct.
BUZZ!

like i said (too),LOL
running multiple ground potentials ( potentially!!LOL) could be problems with
proper GFCI operation if some how u start pulling current back to multiple ground potentials on the neuteral ( it only takes 6 milliamps of imballance to open a GFCI), but u probly be OK ,also a lightening strike nearby will play havoc on/in homes w/multiple ground potentials vs home w/o grounding problems.
BTW "glassmaster", if ur going to be running a hydro setup i highly recomend GFCI protection.
BUZZ!