2024 State of the genepool discussion.

[TrifektaSeeds]

Pretty sure Hammerhead knows what he talks about, this guy is a true OG
I haven't smoked anything remotely close to what we smoked 10 years ago, 20 is a pointless chase, 30-40 ? Dinosaurs bruh
I'm also thinking about quitting from daily smoking and saving it for my pheno hunts until I get something worth hangin on to

 

[numberguy]

Oh now I get it you saved thousands of pictures, but no seeds from days gone by. I had more fore site than that, so you diss me for stating my opinions on breeding. I am not bemoaning the state of the genepool just suggesting an alternative way. Doing the same thing over and over does'nt seem to be working.

 

[JetLife175]

Oh now I get it you saved thousands of pictures, but no seeds from days gone by. I had more fore site than that, so you diss me for stating my opinions on breeding. I am not bemoaning the state of the genepool just suggesting an alternative way. Doing the same thing over and over does'nt seem to be working.

Do you have viable seeds from the 80s and 90s? Stock that hasn't been touched since then sitting around waiting to be germinated?

Everything I've come across from those days doesn't pop.

Maybe tissue culture can help that but since cookies came around the grease has left the genepool for the most part.

 

[Hammerhead]

Oh now I get it you saved thousands of pictures, but no seeds from days gone by. I had more fore site than that, so you diss me for stating my opinions on breeding. I am not bemoaning the state of the genepool just suggesting an alternative way. Doing the same thing over and over does'nt seem to be working.

Not many people have seeds that are are 30-50 years old, let alone get any to germ.. If you cant tell the differences between those lost genetics and whats grown today that's not on me. Ea batch of seeds made today doesn't matter by who are not better than the previous. There the same chemotypes with different names. I use to have hope but not anymore after what I've seen.. I try pretty hard to bring back those unique chmotypes but ive not been sucsefful which doesnt surprise me concidering the state of the genepool.

 

[TrifektaSeeds]

It takes years to make a stable clone, the work was done for us by the OGs of old but it has now been mingled too much
Those who still have the OG cuts have at least something to smoke
Most of those cuts are just a one in a million, not a cut to pass viable traits unless bred for it, there's a major difference from a cut been used to smoke and a cut being used to make seeds in order to represent the line/mother
The old breeders pheno hunted the shit outta lines and in the process they created true breed clones that created everything around us
The path has been lost ever since
To create tat kind of perfection we need the breeders of old, the ones who gave 30 years of their life hunting plants, stabilizing, crossing, with all kinds of genetics but not too much so it will kill their breeding work like today's "breeders".

 

[Hammerhead]

Huge fields were grown back in the 80s. We dont see this kind of scale today. Without growing on this scale the odds of finding any unique chemotypes are near impossible. I think the largest today is not more than 10 acres?. Operation Condor represented the first war on drugs in Mexican history that was backed and urged by the United States. The operation launched in 1977 by Mexican government and focused on the internal enemy – the goal of this Operation was to wipe out the actors involved in the illegal drug industry.

MEXICO CITY - Soldiers have found the largest marijuana plantation ever detected in Mexico, a huge field covering almost 300 acres, the Defense Department said Thursday.
The plantation is four times larger than the previous record discovery, at a ranch in northern Chihuahua state in 1984.

The pot plants were sheltered under black screen-cloth in a huge square on the floor of the Baja California desert, more than 150 miles south of Tijuana.

Army Gen. Alfonso Duarte said the screening, often used by regular farmers to protect crops from the sun, made it difficult to detect from the air what was growing underneath.

It was only when soldiers on the ground reached the isolated area Tuesday that they found thousands of pot plants as tall as 2 1/2 yards. The average height of the plants was about 1 1/2 yards. Duarte said they were not ready for harvest.

 

[numberguy]

grease has left the genepool for the most part.

I dont think I have ever seen a greasy plant, sticky, waxy, ozzing clear liquid, leafs that drip, gritty, but nothing like grease or oil. Everyone would have thought it was sprayed with something, it would have been culled.

 

[Chi13]

The pinnacle of cannabis in my lifetime was the Thai stick. I'm amazed some 50 years later about how consistently great it was. Never had a stick that didn't blow my head off. I can only assume that the Thai farmers year after year bred with the best of their plants to achieve this. The fact that they did this with such huge populations of seed plants is just amazing.

 

[Raco]

The pinnacle of cannabis in my lifetime was the Thai stick. I'm amazed some 50 years later about how consistently great it was. Never had a stick that didn't blow my head off. I can only assume that the Thai farmers year after year bred with the best of their plants to achieve this. The fact that they did this with such huge populations of seed plants is just amazing.

The *proud" Thai farmers...imo

 

[numberguy]

If you cant tell the differences between those lost genetics and whats grown today that's not on me. Ea batch of seeds made today doesn't matter by who are not better than the previous. There the same chemotypes with different names. I use to have hope but not anymore after what I've seen.. I try pretty hard to bring back those unique chmotypes but ive not been sucsefful which doesnt surprise me concidering the state of the genepool.

I don't see much of whats growing these days just pictures and what a few have brought me to try from dispo's and yes those samples are different. I usually take two hits then pass whatever is left as a gift. I have only ever bought six 10 packs of seeds over the years. All but one pack rude x skunk were used to make more seeds. Out of those 60, no cuts were kept longer than testing and seed making required. If your going to blame anything for the state of seeds it is the internet to blame and a few key peeps spreading bad info that every one took as gospel. Advice turn back the clock to your first time no led no specific ferts no calmag no pesticides no outside making seeds no fancy bag dirt no no to everything you did not have then, your making seeds not bud. Plant and repeat plant and repeat.

 

[Brother Nature]

I dont think I have ever seen a greasy plant, sticky, waxy, ozzing clear liquid, leafs that drip, gritty, but nothing like grease or oil. Everyone would have thought it was sprayed with something, it would have been culled.

That's not what he's meaning, greasy is the type of resin a plant produces, if you've come across a plant with a greasy resin profile you'll know exactly what he's talking about. In my experience greasy plants are still around, but I only ever come across them in older genetics, most of the newer stuff ends to be more sandy, prefer the greasy ones for hash production too..

 

[numberguy]

It takes years to make a stable clone,

Most of those cuts are just a one in a million, there's a major difference from a cut been used to smoke and a cut being used to make seeds in order to represent the line/mother
The old breeders pheno hunted the shit outta lines

It only takes about three generations to stablize a line that can be done in a year 4 months per run. Most known clones only came from a few seeds not millions just the right seeds. There is no difference in a cut to smoke and one for seeds, the best cut is used for both. The (breeders) want you to think they used thousands of plants but its just not so. Example skunk in the early days of it, it was sold by the gram which if you were lucky had more than one seed if not you crossed it to whatever you had, you were running the cut you got from those first seeds so did not worry about future seeds, till it was too late. Not trying to argue just have a different experience and opinion.

 

[@hempy]

Most clones are Poly hybrids, and even selfing them won't produce any form of uniformity in the offering.

That's not what he's meaning, greasy is the type of resin a plant produces, if you've come across a plant with a greasy resin profile you'll know exactly what he's talking about. In my experience greasy plants are still around, but I only ever come across them in older genetics, most of the newer stuff ends to be more sandy, prefer the greasy ones for hash production too..

You can get stick /oily or even a waxy resin that starts as sticky that when rubbed between your fingers goes a white colour instead of black.

 

[JetLife175]

It takes years to make a stable clone, the work was done for us by the OGs of old but it has now been mingled too much
Those who still have the OG cuts have at least something to smoke

This is not exactly 100% true.

There were alot of accidents that took actually no work that are quite stable. Bubba kush being a prime example. That shit breeds true and is some of the most stable stuff I've ever come across. It was a closet mishap.

I think what's happened is the building blocks that made these amazing mistakes just aren't around anymore. The bagseed you see out there now doesn't seem to be producing anything unique or new unfortunately.

 

[TrifektaSeeds]

Accidentally is not stable or uniform
GG4 is an accident, not breeding
Luck can strike like lightning
But to get consistent results you need to work.

It only takes about three generations to stablize a line that can be done in a year 4 months per run.

It depends on the genetics you hold and how much theh breed true or not.
It can take 4 generations or it can take 9, no one can know.

Most known clones only came from a few seeds not millions just the right seeds.

The right seeds ? Lol
Those just magically appeared ?
The right seeds are the seeds people selected from thousands of plants in order to speed up the selection process
When you grow 100 or 1000 you can speed up your breeding by x2 x3 it depends
Because instead of selecting for 1 trait at a time from a low population, you select for 2-3-4 traits from a large pool
That's how you got plants that yield high but have high potency aswell, or any other combinations that people selected for

There is no difference in a cut to smoke and one for seeds, the best cut is used for both.

Yes, only in the start, after that if you wanna make seeds outta it you need to breed in order to get to your original clone in seed form
So your customers smoke the original clone
Not the seeds you hunt as they are not on the same level until you make them so.

The (breeders) want you to think they used thousands of plants but its just not so.

Depends on the breeders and their capabilities, the more you plant the faster and better your selection can be for future generations
Most of breeders today don't hunt large numbers, but some probably do, somewhere
Still that doesn't count if your strain will breed true or not, it just makes your selection easier and speed up the process.

Example skunk in the early days of it, it was sold by the gram which if you were lucky had more than one seed if not you crossed it to whatever you had, you were running the cut you got from those first seeds so did not worry about future seeds, till it was too late.

Not trying to argue just have a different experience and opinion.

You have no idea what you are talking about really

 

[AcrylicGoblin]

Generally, people like to lament changes from the past but don't acknowledge the role they have played in those changes. If you go to the dispensary and say I'll take an 1/8th of the runtz, 1/8th of the gelato 33, and a snoop dog preroll...or grow rootbeer lime reserve glue x rainbow cookies grape banana mint kush...then there's nothing honest to say here other than you wish other people would had made more responsible choices even though you haven't.


How many people do you know who complain about the island of plastic in the Pacific, chemicals and microplasics in all of their food, and Amazon destroying local small businesses who also spend a large portion of their discretionary income buying plastic garbage wrapped in plastic from Amazon? It's the same thing as buying modern hybrid stuff from the dispensary and growing somebody's new fire polyhybrid F1.


So before you put down your disposable terp added vape to tell me why that's not true, consider that your dollars are your vote. Buy some seeds from Ace. Tell your dealer or budtender that you are tired of the same cookies crap and that you will pay more if they can find a proper haze. If enough people do, things will change, maybe weed won't end up like bananas (or banana, as there's only one variety at most stores)

 

[JetLife175]

Accidentally is not stable or uniform
GG4 is an accident, not breeding
Luck can strike like lightning
But to get consistent results you need to work.


It depends on the genetics you hold and how much theh breed true or not.
It can take 4 generations or it can take 9, no one can know.

The right seeds ? Lol
Those just magically appeared ?
The right seeds are the seeds people selected from thousands of plants in order to speed up the selection process
When you grow 100 or 1000 you can speed up your breeding by x2 x3 it depends
Because instead of selecting for 1 trait at a time from a low population, you select for 2-3-4 traits from a large pool
That's how you got plants that yield high but have high potency aswell, or any other combinations that people selected for

Yes, only in the start, after that if you wanna make seeds outta it you need to breed in order to get to your original clone in seed form
So your customers smoke the original clone
Not the seeds you hunt as they are not on the same level until you make them so.

Depends on the breeders and their capabilities, the more you plant the faster and better your selection can be for future generations
Most of breeders today don't hunt large numbers, but some probably do, somewhere
Still that doesn't count if your strain will breed true or not, it just makes your selection easier and speed up the process.



You have no idea what you are talking about really

What are your criteria for stability?

I'm interested to know the markers and traits that constitute a "stable" keeper in your eyes?

This conversation is great by the way. I'm loving the back and forth. We're getting somewhere with this!