20-year old seeds

[star crash]

Just because they are old I don’t see what difference it would make if you can get the plants to grow ...I just sprouted some really old seed ...same thing happened ...they crack open ...then they stall and rot ..what I did was to actually split open the shell after it clicked very delicately to get out the young embryo and then let the plant grow from there...

peace

 

[mack 10]

Also if you can get them to sprout but they seem weak, try and make some new seeds from them.
The new stock should improve vigour, etc.

Good luck.

 

[Treevly]

I had all the same issues with my 10 year old Iranian seeds...I had 2 out of a 100 germinate and fully grown out.


I soaked in Brass, Chitosan, Bacteria , Microbes, scuffing.. etc... its a real pain in the ass TBH

How did the 2 turn out when finished?

 

[Treevly]

I would not give up until you try a few things.

I wonder if indole-3-butric acid rooting powder would be useful.

 

[Vash]

I just had some older seeds to sprout by using some fresh EWC. I had previously tried soaking, and they opened a little, but quit. I tried again with the castings and had a lot better success. There's a thread around here somewhere speaking on this subject. Good luck moving forward, Treevly.

 

[Medicine Man1]

I just had some older seeds to sprout by using some fresh EWC. I had previously tried soaking, and they opened a little, but quit. I tried again with the castings and had a lot better success. There's a thread around here somewhere speaking on this subject....

There is a thread, somewhere, but I'll be damned if I can find it. Someone (Dankwolf, ReikoX, Miraculous Meds, Lester Beans, Shmavis) was trying to sprout some "Ancestral" or "Ancient" Skunk from the 60s and 70s.



Long story shorter, their best results came from putting seeds in their worm bins or compost piles. They suspected better microbial activity helping the old seeds along.


The guys who are recommending EWC treatments are probably pointing you in the right direction, but I have no idea on ratios of what to what, so hopefully they'll chime in with more details.

 

[THC123]

This is true and I am going to try this and other thing the coming weeks. Worm casting are full of already active trichoderma and mycorhizzaev (and other things too).

The mycorhizzae will help root development, but the trichoderma should take care of pathogens.

The problem with old seeds is that they are weaker, and pythium (and other pathogens) prey on weaker plants. That is the reason why fresh seeds germ without issues and old ones germ, break the surface and then stall.

When it comes to germin old seeds, I have had the best result in perlite/vermiculite (so thy don't rot while germing). What I want to try next is to plant them in a perlite/vermiculite/worm casting mix I will add extra trichoderma and then let it sit 3 weeks so they can form a colony.

I am also going to prime the seeds with trichoderma powder.

I will mix cinnamon in the top layer as well.

And what I also want to try are special bacteria to prevent damping off. I wanted to try actinovate, but it is not available to europeans so will have to find something similar.

Up to now I got 1 out of 10 seedlings going the rest germed and got to about 1 cm tall before the roots got yellow.

I have tens of thousands of 20-30+ year old seeds to experiment with so I am hopefull I will find a way to bring back old genetics.

The thing is, most germed really well up untill 3 years ago when I had to bring my seed collection somewhere due to security issues. I transported them in a freezer bag filled with dry ice.

But I think the temp difference might have caused consensation which developed pathogens. And I suspect maybe even inside the seed as I always do surface decontamination.

I won't rest till I get my babies back to life goddammit. It is really frustrating...

@treevly GA3 at 100 ppm does a fine job for germination. But won't take care of the problems afterwards..

 

[Sport Farmer]

Yeah I've lost a lot of ancient seeds to the stall and other various techniques. It's a real bummer that they don't last forever. Lots of microbial activity is definitely important from my experience. Worm teas and worm bins seem to be the ticket as mentioned above. I've also had success mixing up a gallon of RO with 5ml of Age Old Kelp, 5ml of Bloom City Clean Kelp, 5ml Bloom City Worm Tea, 5ml of Liquid Karma and 1ml of tribus original. Then I soak rapid rooters in that mixture for 10-15 minutes or so, flip them on the flat side, make a slice for the seed with a razor blade, pop the old beans in there and put them in a little tray with a lid on it and wait. Don't plant them too deep. Temps in the mid 70's is the sweet spot. Usually takes a good 7-14 days for some of the old ones if they're gonna make it in this world.

I got some Cripple Creek x Sputnuk 2.0 from 2005 I'm hoping I can revive so I feel all you guys trying to get those old beans goin. Good luck everyone!

 

[shaggyballs]

I have heard the worm bin works great, have not tried it myself.
I have not tried the IBA, but a micro does may just help.
Add a touch of brass for energy.

 

[THC123]

Actinovate or something similar should help. The problem is the old seeds are weak and more susceptible. That is why they don't make it after sprouting.
I cant get it here, but I am going to order something similar.

But yeah a biocide should do the trick to control this fungus.

 

[Treevly]

I've thunk on it and no idea if the genetic information in the seed could be degraded or not. That is a pretty specialized question, I think. The strength of the seed to sprout, root, and grow has been degraded over time, but if it gets going and is able to grow, will it possess the same genetic info it once possessed, or will that be degraded too? That may be knowledge of a plant geneticist.

 

[stealthnstoned]

I donno if its just me..
I just used warm tap water + jiffy pots in a jiffy started dome.. haha.. 5 buck at the store. and I recently germ'd a bunch of different 10-15 year old seeds. I had about 75% germ rate probably would be higher but some strains were 0%. the ones that did germ were pretty much 100% still. I did not store the seeds any special way.. they sat in the freezer in a tupper ware box in the original packaging.. some baggies.. some seed containers. some plastic packaging. They were in and out of the freezer many times because I moved at least 6 times over that period of time.. many times the seeds just sat in my desk drawer for months / years at a time as well. I was expecting 0% germ rate to be honest.

 

[THC123]

That is interesting. Thank you. Do you just put a little hydrogen peroxide on them?

Yeah about 1/10, not much, I soak them in a glass for 4 hours approx.

In fact I started germinating some yesterday. I forgot them in the glass. I also added 100ppm of GA3. I already have 3 opening and they are from 2007 so 13 years.

Next, I will plant them in a mix of coco coir and worm castings 50/50 and the top inch or so is filled with perlite vermiculite mix to keep it airy and to have inert surface. The wormcastings contain already active trichoderma. And I'll also coat the seeds with trichoderma powder and put tricho/myco mix in planting hole. No propagator. In hot conditions I keep them on capillary mat and for the rest in a warm spot with a lot of ventilation. I try to avoid watering from the top in this stage to prevent seed going deeper into medium. I just put it on the vermiculite and cover it with 0.5 cm of vermiculite and spray till moist (not too much it absorbs pretty well and stays moist much longer than coco or soil but permits air passing.

I tested this with lots of vegetable seeds as I lost hundreds of plants to damping off. WIth this new way germination it is so much quicker and no fungus growth on the surface up to now, fingers crossed. Imma plant them this evening.

In the winter I will use a small box or small tent to ensure good conditions, no exhaust + oscillating fan + capillary matting instead of propagator. For fresh seeds propagators are okay but not for old seeds.

Strain is Positronics citral x green dragon x californian orange bud. Also called Nederzaad 2007. You can find her via the search function.

 

[Crazy Cehster]

Her'es a newbie that have keept seeds in a photo can for years. Just started my first Indoor tent with some other seeds and get things to work fine. Perhaps the seeds in the can is dead due to lack of oxygen? Wasn't thinking of that matter and they have been there for many years. Read somewhere you can 'test' if a seed will grow or not by putting them in a glass of water. If they sink they're ok if not dead. Is that right? If so I can just test.

 

[Frosty Nuggets]

Her'es a newbie that have keept seeds in a photo can for years. Just started my first Indoor tent with some other seeds and get things to work fine. Perhaps the seeds in the can is dead due to lack of oxygen? Wasn't thinking of that matter and they have been there for many years. Read somewhere you can 'test' if a seed will grow or not by putting them in a glass of water. If they sink they're ok if not dead. Is that right? If so I can just test.

No, I've had floaters germinate.

 

[I wood]

Yup, sink or float is broscience as far as i can tell.

After buying several hundred old seeds and trying everything i read about. I have come to the conclusion that a peroxide soak, into a moist warm stable environment for 48 hours and then crack what hasn’t cracked by itself is the best way to go. Some old seeds have taken up to a month to get going. A paper towel moistened with weak h2o2 solution in a sandwich bag works well, replace paper towel every few days for best results.
Also placing seedling into a rapid rooter type cube, then into moist but not soggy dirt, has also upped success rate. The cube helps by providing a buffer between weak seedling and sometimes overly aggressive dirt, preventing dirt from consuming the seedling. lost a few possible gems before i learned this.
The worm bin thing does work about as well but is not always available, too “young” of a bin will not work.

Currently growing golden tiger original f1s, with the plan to make f2s. The above method yielded 60%, even though the seeds were expected to give about 40% a couple of years ago when i purchased them. Either i got real lucky or that way works well.
Im so glad to be done with old seeds, what a pain in the ass they can be.
Sometimes they are just dead already.

Good luck to all still dealing with them.

 

[Crazy Cehster]

Yup, sink or float is broscience as far as i can tell.

After buying several hundred old seeds and trying everything i read about. <cut>

Good luck to all still dealing with them.

Interesting and I might try the method as I picked those seeds over time and put them in the old plastic film box. But later reflected how crazy it might be to put them in such almost airtight Environment?

Do you think seeds have less chance to survive in such a box?

 

[Medfinder]

Another post from 2010...not sure if this is the best

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=153637

Also heard of germinating.. cannabis seeds with tomato seeds...

 

[I wood]

Do you think seeds have less chance to survive in such a box?

While dormant i don’t think o2 is an issue.
Temperature and moisture are.
A mason jar filled with little plastic baggies & vials of seeds with some sort of descant, in a fridge has given me 90% + germination after 20 years.

 

[Treevly]

I give up. If anyone wants 80 or so C99 seeds (original) they can have them. I would be interested in finding C99 pollen this year from Grimm or from Mosca or other..... I don't need a pond of it, just a modest quantity.