2.5x1.8 meter coco scrog, 3 strain bingo!!

[Tokesome]

Hey toke mate, glad that it seems your on top of these issue bro... I was gonna suggest... just to know it's not something you maybe doing feed regime wise... stick a plant in compost in there... In a compost that wont need feeding for at least 3-4 weeks.... this way you can rule out if its an issue with your feeding regime, a lock out or whatever... If you just add plain tap water to the compost and get the same symptoms then you can rule out everything bar an environmental issue - temps RH gas off.

I would also use a mix of tap water and RO to get the 0.2 u require... this way calmax is also out the way as a suspect.

Everything looks good in the latest pics, lush n green

Hey Shhh, that`s a cool idea bro, thanks. If I find that I haven`t got this under control with the measures already undertaken, I`ll defo bear that in mind.

Yeah was gonna mix half and half today, but forgot to run some tap water the day before thus allowing it to dechlorinate before mixing, so I went with Calmax at ec0.2.

Next res though I will give it a go tho, I think the Calmax is adding too much N, especially the strength I was applying it, even though that`s well under the recommended dosage stated on the bottle. I`ve noticed some tip burn on some leaves despite keeping ec`s at a low level. Also my last grow stayed ultra green right to the end and didn`t even drop lower leaves that were under the screen.

Cheers, Toke

 

[Scrogerman]

Yes Toke,
Things have definately improved man, looking much more like it bro! Cool!
Yeah i agree with what you've said on the 'N' issue man, & the possibility of just a little too much N, which can cause this imbalance & lock issue with Mg, from what ive read in other threads on the issue/'s, which is nuts but seems to be the case according to other coco users. What did 'Bonecarver' have to say on this issue, did you ask his advise man? He seems to be one of the Coco Maestro's/Dons here on IC.
Not sure on the residue issue with the Epsom, id leave for a day then rinse with plain water(ph-7ish) myself. I believe the best ph for foliar applications is 7-7.4 from my findings. What do you PH your foliar app's to man?
Anyway, Keep working it & breaking it all down, we'll/You'll work it out in the end, Controls are the only real way to get to the bottom of things sometimes, especially if its a reoccuring problem, Things seem to be ticking nicely in there atm so stick with it bro. Nice Work!
Peace......Scroger!

 

[Tokesome]

Yes Toke,
Things have definately improved man, looking much more like it bro! Cool!
Yeah i agree with what you've said on the 'N' issue man, & the possibility of just a little too much N, which can cause this imbalance & lock issue with Mg, from what ive read in other threads on the issue/'s, which is nuts but seems to be the case according to other coco users. What did 'Bonecarver' have to say on this issue, did you ask his advise man? He seems to be one of the Coco Maestro's/Dons here on IC.
Not sure on the residue issue with the Epsom, id leave for a day then rinse with plain water(ph-7ish) myself. I believe the best ph for foliar applications is 7-7.4 from my findings. What do you PH your foliar app's to man?
Anyway, Keep working it & breaking it all down, we'll/You'll work it out in the end, Controls are the only real way to get to the bottom of things sometimes, especially if its a reoccuring problem, Things seem to be ticking nicely in there atm so stick with it bro. Nice Work!
Peace......Scroger!

Yeah cheers Scroger, things are improving. I`ll just go and check the ph of the foliar spray mix, I didn`t realise that it required ph, didn`t cross my mind, doh!

I think Bonecarver has his hands pretty full in his garden and being a "mod" `n all. I dont like to bother him too much, he`s had a lot of issues with PM etc., and figured he could do without another headf**k to deal with

Growth rate has increased significantly, will be switching soon I reckon, the screen is I would say about 70% full now and I`d expect both the Grapefruit and Armageddon to stretch a lot and moderately, respectively.

The plants are look happy again

Toke

 

[Tokesome]

Hey Scroger, as luck would have it my tap water mixed with Epsom salts @ 1 medium teaspoon per liter comes out at ph7.4. So that`s cool.

So I`ve mixed a res up with RO water mixed roughly half and half to bring it to ec0.2. I just kept adding tap water to the RO water constantly watching the meter until it just turned to 0.2. I`ve added A+B to ec1.2, 3 capfuls of Superthrive and a zym additive. adjusted to ph5.8.

I think I`ll switch them to 12/12 tmro, I think the screen is nearer to 80% covered now.

Here`s a pic of the screen today

This the spare big bud that was in a state

Notice how red/purple the stems to these leaves are, is that a sign of too much K? No doubt part of the imbalance of nutrients I`ve had going on.

This is the most vigorous of the Arma`s that I kept for a mum. It was showing signs of Mg deficiency/lock out, its made an almost full recovery and seems very happy now.

This leaf on the mum was showing light between the veins, but now its back to a healthy green

These are the three that I put in the cupboard on 12/12 a week or so ago, they`ve improved loads since spraying a couple of times with Epsom salts

I`m happy with how things are going again now, though I`ll be keeping a close eye on them now I`m mixing RO with my tap water, which I`m not sure about the quality. The ec reads the same as the tap water just a couple of streets away, yet there are no problems there and never has been. all else was the same. Anyway all seems well, lets see if they like the RO/tap mix.

Toke

 

[Scrogerman]

I think you've cracked it my friend! So we conclude that it was the extra N in your CalMax that was causing issues with Mg uptake, this could cause probs with K uptake causing the redstems!-lol(WHAT???lol)? What was your conclusion man?! I know there was most definately an issue with a lack of Mg & the foliar has seemed to fix this issue,ph 7.4 lol-perfect from what ive read and according to Mistress', shes one clever cat man!. Anyway they have fully pulled around and look happy, I know the leafstems reddening like that can be caused by too Little K or N (likely to be a problem with K uptake though)or it can be strain specific. It nice to see its all good bro! Nice!!!
Peace......Scroger!

 

[Tokesome]

I think you've cracked it my friend! So we conclude that it was the extra N in your CalMax that was causing issues with Mg uptake, this could cause probs with K uptake causing the redstems!-lol(WHAT???lol)? What was your conclusion man?! I know there was most definately an issue with a lack of Mg & the foliar has seemed to fix this issue,ph 7.4 lol-perfect from what ive read and according to Mistress', shes one clever cat man!. Anyway they have fully pulled around and look happy, I know the leafstems reddening like that can be caused by too Little K or N (likely to be a problem with K uptake though)or it can be strain specific. It nice to see its all good bro! Nice!!!
Peace......Scroger!

Yes mate, I think I`ve got on top of it. I`m not exactly sure of the conclusion yet, I`ll wait to see if the RO/tap mix works out. If it does, I`d say yes to the Calmax causing the problem, either too much N, or just too much Cal and Mg. I`ve noticed a little tip burn despite low ec figures, so I`m guessing the N is responsible for that.

I dont know enough to comment on the red stems, but its far worse on the 3 big bud that were by far the most affected so its definitely part of the same issue. It makes me realise how easi it is to upset the balance of nutrients, and makes me wonder why there aren`t a lot more problems of this type when you consider all the additives that are being pushed on the market, especially at the strengths recommended on the bottles.

Yeah I agree with you Scroger that Mistress is one clever lady and one hell of a gardener, but unfortunately I took exception (wrongly) to the way she was telling me something and had a bit of a go at her. I did apologise, but I think I pissed her off a bit. I`m not surprised either as I was very stressed at the time and was being a bit of a knob. I do read up on some of her stuff, but man do I find some of its so way over my head. My understanding of some of the technical stuff isn`t really up to it.

I`m a bit uncertain of what strength to apply nutrients through the different periods of the grow. I`m using ec1.2 currently and I know Bonecarver is a big fan of keeping it at that for the whole grow. My old style of growing (pretty basic) I`d be using EC1.2-1.4 throughout veg and early flower, then step up to about ec1.6 as the buds are packing on, reaching a peak of ec1.8 before scaling down again and then the final flush.

Its guess work tho, its difficult to read the ph and ec of run offs from coco, as its not very accurate. I do have my pots raised so it is easy to collect the run off from any individual plant and this will tell you if things are consistently way. My old way of doing things was just based on what I see in the demands of the plants. I`d like to establish what my plants need with more accuracy, but I really cant be doing with collecting coco from the middle of the pots to do the slurry test.

Mine will stay on ec1.2 for a while at least, the last thing I want to do is over do anything now, but I`d like to make sure they get all of what they want without giving too much of anything for the entire grow, but I`m not quite sure how to go about establishing that.

In the tent grow that`s in heavy flower have had ec1.2 for most of the grow, but last week it was at ec1.6 when feeding PK13/14 for a few days as per Canna`s instructions. Now they`re back on ec1.2 for a week before the final week`s flush. They seem to be doing ok on that regime, but again its purely based on guess work, with a little of Bonecarver`s approach thrown in, and not exactly dialing it in fully, which I`d really like to do. If anyone has suggestions on this I`d be interested in hearing them.

Cheers Toke

 

[Tokesome]

Switched to 12/12 today.

I`m gonna start stripping some of the lesser shoots and leaves from beneath the canopy, after I`ve taken a selection of cuttings from the plants. I`m going to take cuts from the Armageddon and the Grapefruit and label which plants they`ve come from to make a selection for the best mothers. I`ll have quite a few spare plants in the end, and my cloning/mother cupboard isn`t going to be big enough to hold them all. I`ll have to get around to putting one or maybe two shelves in there and some flouro strips.

I`ll take a couple of Big Bud cuttings and if they take alright, I`ll give them another go and see if they make decent plants when lockout/def free. The main emphasis is going to be on the Arma`s and the Grapefruit though.

Toke;-)

 

[Tokesome]

Wow, I`ve just been planning my spacing after taking some advice from scroger about numbers of flowering heads to go for per m2.

I`m going to go for 60 heads per m2. My plastic netting has 400 squares per m2 and tapping the figures through the calculator it works out at just 1 head per 6.6 squares. Man I`ve been totally overcrowding my screens prior to this grow. This gives me much more of a sense of what and how much to chop out of the plants and this spacing should allow me to concentrate on the very best heads each plant has to offer, and keep screen management an awful lot easier. I`ve been going roughly on the principle that if the shooting tip reaches the screen its good enough to stay. This time I`m going to be absolutely ruthless and anything over the 60 per head, its gonna be off with it`s head!!

I think more MH lighting would be a help, as under the HPS they grow a lot more stocky and less stretchy than under the MH. I might add another MH to the lighting whilst outdoor temps have dropped for the next week to 10 days or so and see how they do through stretch.

Cheers Toke

 

[Kindman69]

Looking great bro, they aremaking a nice recovery Toke
I'm no stranger to overcrowding, got several carpet scrogs behind me resulting in a shit load of small buds requireing hard core trimming at the end. This time my squares are 4"x4", we will see how that goes lol.
Keep it growing bro, and best of luck to you!!!

Peace,Kind

 

[Hovz]

Looking good man, can't wait to see em flower.

 

[~Shhh~]

They look really good toke, 60 heads per sq/m puts soggin to shame that's alot of buddage right there... I know the scrogers get good yields but never really done any research into it and didn't realize there was so many heads per sq/m. Should turn out very nicely for you if all goes to plan bro.

That big bud just seems to be a fussy fecker, I always read that they like a good feeding EC wise maybe it was just a little hungrier for Mg in the beginning? Not sure but the rest are looking very nice man

 

[rocket high]

good to see you've turned it around ts lots of nice little nuggs for ya ... am preparing a out door grow as i speak ... sm auto flowerers because of the crap summer so far hopfully this will tide me over till i get the big room up and running ... i had to do something am outta weed

 

[Tokesome]

Pruning dilemma, overwhelmed!!

Pruning dilemma, overwhelmed!!

Hey thanks guys.

I`ve just written out a post with pics etc only to lose it by being directed to log on again, so frustrating that.

Ah well here we go again, I`m stressed by the amount of pruning required and with the speed I need to get on with it, and not wanting to stress the plants in the process. Theyre going mad, shoots every where, way way way tooooooo many. I haven`t even tidied up beneath the screen yet as I`d been holding off till taking cuttings from all the GF`s and the strongest 5 Arma`s and the strongest BB. I`ve taken them now, 3 from each. These have been carefully labeled up and have been taken to select the best mother plants. I`ll be taking some more, gonna try cloning in coco in seedling trays in a prop box, instead of jiffy pucks, though I do usually get 100% rooters this way. I also aim to set a couple of self contained bubbler cloners with floating rafts holding the seedlings. From what I see in the IC forum people are getting amazing long fresh roots in 7 days. My method takes 10-14 days. Also self contained bubblers (with a flouro light inside) dont have to take up valuable space in my mtother/cloning cupboard. Its a bit small, but with shelving I could keep 2-3 mothers and have space to get a batch of plants 1-2 weeks more advanced by the time I`m bringing a crop down.

Here`s a pic of the Grapefruit, bear in mind that 1m2 is 20x20 squares of the screen, and in this shot its aprox 15 squares deep and 13/14 wide, and look how many fooking tips are coming through.

This is the most hectic of the 2 rows of Arma`s, not as bad as the GF`s but still a fook of a lot of pruning to do.

The screen isn`t full yet, but somehow I dont think its gonna take long. The Grapefruit are going to stretch like fook I reckon so I imagine training these a little longer that the Arma`s and BB.

All looking well on the RO/tap water mix so far, tough its early days. I reckon it`ll be fine though if my understanding of what`s been going on here is correct, and it makes mixing a res a doddle, just A+B, a little superthrive and some Atazym. easily ph adjusted to 5.8. Not to mention cheaper not having to buy 2 bottles of Calmax for a grow. Keeping things simple, I like that, and it looks like the plants do too. I`m feeding at ec1.2 and only intend adding PK13/14 later onin flowering and would like to give them just a little Molasses too. That`s it, no more additives. Next grow I may try the Canna Boost though as I hear so many good things about it. I wouldn`t want to put money into it until I know I`ve dialed the grow in properly, otherwise it`d be a waste I`m sure. I`m a bit pissed off with Canna though, I emailed them twice with a complaint about finding bits of plastic in their coco, alon with unidentified seedlings popping up, and some A+B with loads of solid bits in the part B, and they didn`t even have the decency to reply. That`s a bit shit, dont you think??

I`m assuming that the sooner the ones that are to come off are removed the quicker the plant will turn all its energy to the remaining tips and benefit final results, this of course has to be balanced with how much stress is caused by removing quite a lot of plant matter. If yer reading through this Scroger, any tips or advice would be appreciated mate.

Cheers for now, Toke

 

[Scrogerman]

Yeah mate,
Of course im reading through your thread buddy! Yeah its the toughest part of such a big ScrOG as you'll know by now & i admire your perseverance, its admarable man!
Theres alot of bloody pruning out to do with these big'uns aint it mate, but you've got the right idea in being ruthless over a 2-3 week period when you first switch 12/12, your doing fine man. My advise is keep tucking all the big leaves & rotate so some days there tucked and other days there exposed to light & just keep rotating, rather than just leaving everything tucked away & or removing everything thats in the way. Train for shape too, so all the big stuff to the outside if you can, your screen is 'that' big its hard to give any advise thats really gonna help you out! lol! Just consider that in the sweet spot under the lamp, Growth is gonna stretch further than the periphery/outside edge, i see the yield shelves that come supplied with 'Grow-Tents' these days, they are all 'reverse-bowled' to compensate for this growth attribute, just think about that man!Train for Shape! Pruning is a real Bi-atch man but you gotta do it, or its popcorns ville for sure! I know fk'in millions of tops/shoots to remove but hey its worth it all in the end if you get this bit right. Youve got it all under control so there's not much else i can say man exept Good Luck & NO SLACKING LOL!
Peace.........Scroger!!

 

[~Shhh~]

Yer no slacking toke lmao!

Looks like your own rainforest is slowly growing in the bedroom there I'm sure that with your watchful eye and the hard work you put in thus far things will go well for you this round.

 

[Tokesome]

Heh heh, cheers, SLACKING is not an option believe me, I know full well that work done now, though tedious, is gonna save me a lot more work of a much more tedious nature later in the grow.

I want as manageable screen as possible with max results in both quality and quantity, I`m pretty sure in my own mind what I need to do to the plants to achieve this, but man on such a huge and fast growing plants its going to take a fook of a lot of tending, and seems quite overwhelming, but I know once I get into it, it`ll be ok. I`m gonna take another batch of cuttings tmro and then tidy up beneath the screen. I`m busy over the weekend so apart from finding the time to feed them and train a little under the screen, the vast amount of smaller secondary shoots that need removing will have to wait till next week for a concerted effort, when I`ll aim for removing a few each time from each plant, perhaps starting on one row one day, another the next and again the next, this would leave a minimum of 3 days before a plant has a second thinning and so on until I`m happy that I`m keeping up with things.

Cheers guys

 

[rocket high]

you sure are going to busy ts that is a big scrog ... but you'll be rolling in bud when its finnished HAPPY DAYS

 

[Tokesome]

Just been feeding at ec1.2 and oddly enough 2 or 3 of the Armageddon plants are showing tip burn in some of the new leaf sets, the rest are fine and all the GF`s and BB`s are fine too. The same percentage are showing tip burn in the grow tents as well as in my monster scrog.

I`ll drop the feed down to ec1.0 and see how they do then. I`m a bit worried that the GF and BB`s will be under fed if fed from the same res, as will be the case when I set up an auto feeding system this next week, Problem number one with growing different strains in the same scrog.

I`m just training and feeding this weekend as I have other things on. The screen will be full in a few days I reckon, must get on with the pruning at the beginning of next week.

Last night I set about making a BHO run

I just did one tube`s worth of popcorn bud from the tub on the left. The tub on the right is one of two that are crammed full with the resinous leaf from the trimming.

I discharged into hot but not boiling water.

Scooped off the top was this, its not a teaspoon, its a desert spoon!

Here I have it purging any remaining butane out of the sweet sweet honey.

I just love the unique stone that the honey oil gives, its the nearest I`ve found to the buzz you get from eating a strong canna butter cookie, but without the heavyness, waves and duration that digesting canna cookies give, all of which I enjoy very much too, by the way.

I`ll be getting wrecked on the honey this week for sure, and got shit loads more trim and popcorn to make maybe a dozen similar batches.

Cheers Toke

 

[~Shhh~]

That looks like the real deal brother!!! Looks like you have your honey making skills on lock... I take it u made that with the cheese u had? If so it must really be something

 

[Tokesome]

That looks like the real deal brother!!! Looks like you have your honey making skills on lock... I take it u made that with the cheese u had? If so it must really be something

Yeah mate, its defo the real deal. I love smoking good quality bud, but love to use the trim and popcorn for those special treats, ice hash, BHO and of course making Canna butter. BHO is by far the easiest and quickest extraction process I`ve come across, but by far the most dangerous, it must be done outside and one spark and you`d be a right mess, so great care must be taken. Other than that its a piece of piss and I believe you get a lot more from your waste using BHO techniques than ice extraction.

I`ve been supplementing my weed after the dismal yield, but fortunately there was a ridiculous quantity of quality trim and popcorn so certainly no shortages going on here.

The oil rips my chest for the first half of the first splif, then clears, still, sometimes you just gotta cough to get off.

Toke