2 1000's to start?

[madpenguin]

My place has 15 amp breakers, so I had a 40 amp breaker put in and run my room from that. Works great, never trips cause I'm nowhere near running it at capacity.

Oi.... Please tell me you didn't just swap out a 15A breaker in your panel and replaced it with a 40A without running new cable.... You guys make me nervous sometimes...

Andrew, it depends on total wattage/amperage draw and at what voltage your equipment will be running at. You'll also want to keep voltage drop down to a minimum on any inductive loads.

It's completely feasible to do the work yourself, you just have to be comfortable with it and willing to learn how to do it right. Hiring an Electrician in no way guarantees that things will be done right either. There are WAY too many trunk slammers out there.

If you want to post all your nameplate ratings/specs for each piece of equipment and the total length of runs from your panel to your room, then it's a simple matter of figuring out what you need.

 

[TroubleGuy]

Oi.... Please tell me you didn't just swap out a 15A breaker in your panel and replaced it with a 40A without running new cable.... You guys make me nervous sometimes...

Haha, nope. It was done right by a friend who's an electrician, he's set up about a dozen ops I'm aware of and I'm friends with a couple of those people. All of them run just fine, no problems at all so I trust his work. There wasn't a breaker in there, so I had it added. Nothing was replaced.

Andrew, it depends on total wattage/amperage draw and at what voltage your equipment will be running at. You'll also want to keep voltage drop down to a minimum on any inductive loads.

It's completely feasible to do the work yourself, you just have to be comfortable with it and willing to learn how to do it right. Hiring an Electrician in no way guarantees that things will be done right either. There are WAY too many trunk slammers out there.

If you want to post all your nameplate ratings/specs for each piece of equipment and the total length of runs from your panel to your room, then it's a simple matter of figuring out what you need.

sounds like he's the one to listen to!

 

[Macster2]

DON"T RUN A 40 WITHOUT UPGRADING THE WIRE
You don't need too, just run a 15 or 20 amp breaker using 10/2 gauge wire and stick to 1 light 1000 watter per breaker ( you can add a pump or minor light) but if you stress that wire to much and the breaker fails its fire city and a very fast way to get popped.
If you follow this guideline you won't need an electrician
One circuit breaker, one box,one plug,one light.

 

[TroubleGuy]

DON"T RUN A 40 WITHOUT UPGRADING THE WIRE
You don't need to,just run a 15 or 20 amp breaker using 10/2 gauge wire and stick to 1 light 1000 watter per breaker ( you can add a pump or minor light) but if you stress that wire to much and the breaker fails its fire city and a very fast way to get popped.
If you follow this guideline you won't need an electrician
One circuit breaker, one box,one plug,one light.

Upgrade the wire from the breaker to the outlets, or upgrade the wire in the house itself? I'm not too savvy with electricity so I figured I'd ask to make sure my limited knowledge is correct

 

[andrew415]

Thanks guys for the info

I'm not exactly sure what I'm dealing with yet because I havent purchased a house, I'm going to look at a couple on Friday with my agent so I'll know more then.

I think i'm going to tackle it by myself, I might call an electrician to come in for a quote and see what he recommends then steal his idea haha. When the time comes though when I get possession of the house, I'll take picture and digital high deff video of all the wiring system.

keep this thread alive, I have a feeling it might help some people because you guys know your shit!

 

[andrew415]

Upgrade the wire from the breaker to the outlets, or upgrade the wire in the house itself? I'm not too savvy with electricity so I figured I'd ask to make sure my limited knowledge is correct

If you were to run it in a outlet in a bedroom or something yes you will have to upgrade wires if your running HIGH wattage but I think what most people do is run a Subpanel then run there grows off that so that includes all new wiring.

This is a guess from what i've learned in the last week lol, others will chime in

 

[TroubleGuy]

That's kind of what I've done. I have the 40A breaker running to my timer box, which has a couple 240v outlets wired to it. The fans run off the regular electric for that room.

I'm gonna try to add a couple more lights (one for veg and one for flower) to keep my room running smoothly, having a hard time finding enough light to veg under! haha.. point is I just run lights off the timer box, which is the only thing running from the new breaker, and use the standard wall outlets for everything else.

 

[madpenguin]

DON"T RUN A 40 WITHOUT UPGRADING THE WIRE
You don't need too, just run a 15 or 20 amp breaker using 10/2 gauge wire and stick to 1 light 1000 watter per breaker
......
One circuit breaker, one box,one plug,one light.

That's WAY overkill but sure... It'll work. In fact, I like to see overkill but that's pretty much a waste of resources.

#10 AWG can be put on a 30A breaker but if it's a continuous load (runs 3 hours or more) then you can only load that circuit up to 24A. Sized 80% of the breaker or 125% of the actual load served (which they are both the same).

So a 120v 10/2 30A circuit can safely deliver up to 2880 watts. (continuous load)
A 240v 10/2 30A circuit can safely deliver up to 5760 watts. (continuous load)

Just remember the more amperage you draw, the higher your voltage drop will be. Same goes for length of cable run. The longer your homerun to the panel, the higher your voltage drop will be. Same goes for wire gauge. The smaller your conductors, the more voltage drop you will get.

Also, TroubleGuy, if you have anything other than #8 AWG, your circuit isn't actually rated at 40A and could cause problems with heat and resistance. If you have a #8 going to your timer box from the 40A OCPD in the main panel, and that's the only OCPD, but you've tapped #12 AWG to hook up to the receptacles, then that branch circuit is only rated at 20A and you should swap that 40 out for a 20....

I hate to sound preachy but this is pretty serious stuff. I always thought it would be nice to have an electrical sub forum and have electricians as moderators... We need to stay safe.

 

[TroubleGuy]

Haha, that's mostly greek to me. I'll ask my buddy who did the work, but it's been running fine for months and I trust he did it right. Never hurts to take a second look though, I'm all about keeping it safe.

I'm not sure what all the abbreviations you've used mean.

I like that idea for the electricity forum too, I'm sure tons of people would find it useful. I know I would. I' like to know every aspect of growing, not just everything that it involves AFTER the electrical work

 

[madpenguin]

Eh... Most timer boxes that I know of come with OCPD's in them (Over Current Protecton Device or in laymans terms; a breaker).

I was just using that as an example. Electricity is just like water in many aspects. If you have a 3" water pipe (#8 wire) and then tap a 3/4" pipe off that (#14 wire), then you've just restricted the water flow (electron flow) down. With water pipes this will increase pressure but with electric wires, this increases resistance if you still try to push that same amount of "water" down that narrow pipe. Resistance will give you heat and heat will give you fire.

If your going to transition to a smaller wire size, then your main breaker needs to be rated for the smallest diameter wire. In the case of a sub-panel or timer box with breakers, doesn't matter. The 40A breaker at the main just protects the #8 cable, nothing more.

Sorry. Didn't mean to confuse the issue.

 

[Bodhi Roach]

great thread, thanks for all the Q & A's

appreciate it. its great info!!

Umm, with a dryer outlet, I think its rated at 30Amps, would that be a 240v? newer house, newer dryer.

I hear/read alot of people make a panel with a sub box, timer and outlets and put a male end on it and plug it into the wdryer outlet, according to your post MP, one could safely run 5760 watts contious and safely, correct?

How does one setup one of those 2k/2k with only 2 ballasts flip flops to a setup like this?

does using digital ballasts help out in any way compared to a cheapo magnetic ballast?

THANKS!!!!!

 

[andrew415]

madpenguin,

I added you as a friend, I might need your expertise in a month or two when I buy this house! I really like that water theory thanks!


I vote for an electricity forum aswell because way to many people (like i) underestimate the electrical stuff in a grow operation and its a very valuable thing to know about for just safety if you get nothing else out of it!

 

[Macster2]

Andrew if your going grow in your new house,you'll prob want to do it in the basement away from everyone. So put your grow near your elect. box. Run 10/2 from each new breaker you add to one box where you plug your 1000 watt ballast. Add as many breakers as you have lights. You don't need a subpanel unless you have no spaces left for breakers in your breaker box. It might be over kill but its safe.

Mad penguin can I put (2) 1000watt bulbs continuous load on a 20 amp breaker and 10/2 wire ?

 

[madpenguin]

Yea, You can make your own timer box or panelboard. As long as it's terminated correctly inside. If you have a 10/3 w/ground feeding your dryer receptacle (it should be), you can power a 240v panelboard. Black to one hot lug, red to the other hot lug, white to the neutral buss and green to an isolated ground bar attached to the panel frame (sand the paint off before you attach the ground bar).

I wouldn't run romex out of it to feed receptacles at a distance. Would probably clasify that as premise wiring thus requiring you to feed the panel properly. As long as you made it a "portable" panelboard with self-contained duplex receptacles, then you'd be fine with the "cord and plug" approach.

Whatever you guys do, make sure you know something about electricity and are confident as to the correct way to terminate wiring. This is a touchy subject; giving electrical advice to the common homeowner/DIY'er....

Lot's of good books at Lowes or HomeDepot about residential wiring. Don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand them either. Most of you are "smarter than the average bear" from what I've seen on various threads....:smile:

If your not sure of something then find out the correct way before you do it. Not a whole lot of room for error when it comes to electricity. There's probably not an electrical forum for liability reasons. Any major work done requires a permit and inspection by your local AHJ, there's NEC codes out the yin-yang. Hell, alot of you are in countries that utilize different voltages and frequencies than the U.S.....

Maintaining a proper and safe electrical forum would be a full time job for several people.

 

[madpenguin]

Mad penguin can I put (2) 1000watt bulbs continuous load on a 20 amp breaker and 10/2 wire ?

On a 120v circuit, no. You'll need to use a 30A breaker instead. On a 240v circuit, yes.

P = I x E
E = P / I
I = P / E
E = I x R
R = E / I
I = E / R

P = Watts
E = Voltage
I = Amperage
R = Resistance

Continuous Loads:

#14 AWG = 12 amp max = 1440 watts @ 120v
#14 AWG = 12 amp max = 2880 watts @ 240v
#12 AWG = 16 amp max = 1920 watts @ 120v
#12 AWG = 16 amp max = 3840 watts @ 240v
#10 AWG = 24 amp max = 2880 watts @ 120v
#10 AWG = 24 amp max = 5760 watts @ 240v

Breaker sizes:

#14 - 15 amp breaker
#12 - 20 amp breaker
#10 - 30 amp breaker

120v circuit uses a single pole breaker
240v circuit uses a double pole breaker

 

[madpenguin]

Mad penguin can I put (2) 1000watt bulbs continuous load on a 20 amp breaker and 10/2 wire ?

I'll re-answer that one. Technically, yes, you could probably get away with it. If it was #12 wire then no. Since your using #10, then it might not be too big of a deal wire side. Your total continuous load is still well under 24 amp. The wire is rated for 24 and the breaker is rated for 20 (non-continuous) but your at 16.666 amps @120v and 2000w... To be code compliant, you'd have to bump the breaker up to a 30. One might argue about the .7A discrepancy, but best not to assume you know more than the NEC (or the breaker manufactures).

Still not sure why your using #10. That sh*t is expensive as hell. The only reason why you would want to run #10 on a 20A breaker is for de-rating purposes or to combat voltage drop.

 

[Bodhi Roach]

thank you madpenguin!!

it is now clear to me that running with 240v is much more convenient than plugging into the 120v wall outlets. very restrictive with 120v

I will still have the panel made by a pro hehe, its not worth it to save a few buck and make a costly mistake.

These panels can be made anywhere and dont have to be done at your show which compromises your venture. All you have to do ppl, is plug it into the dryer receptacle and make sure your ballasts are wired correctly, there are like 3 or 4 voltage wires-108-120-240 et... just make sure the 240 is the one tied into the correct voltage marrette.

OH!!! and make sure to use a different type receptacle, like a winking smilie guy or something other than a regular one, otherwise you might, or someone else might plug a 120v item into it.

Thanks again!!!!!

 

[TroubleGuy]

Thanks for the electric advice madpenguin. +rep for that.

 

[Macster2]

Sorry penguin,maybe it's not 10/2,What is standard household wire?

 

[madpenguin]

14/2

Newer cable will be color coded. White is #14. Yellow is #12, Orange is #10 and Black could be #8 or thicker.

Altho back in the 80's or so, #12 is white, #10 can be found in Black, ect.. ect...

You really need to look at the sheathing. It should be marked.