1st Grow - Kovenant's story

[kovenant]

Midtown -> not saying that it is or isnt an issue myself bro. just was stating what i have it at. besides... pH could be an issue because i havent checked calibration on my meter in weeks... going to calibrate pH and ppm's later tonight to make sure my readings are acurate.

now wondering if the burn isnt from overfeeding - which is what ive been told on the TW thread, may be the prob.

the reason i am pH'ing around 6 right now isnt because i think its necessarily the problem... its just where it seems stabilized. if i dont have to keep dropping it every day and its still within the range it needs to be - shouldnt i leave it there?

 

[kovenant]

so. running light nute solution back through. going to see how things progress the next couple days. was informed today that AN connoisseur runs extremely hot as they are pharmaceutical grade.

i mixed my micros and additives first: F1, H2, Barricade, Pirahna, BigBud, and Multi-zyme.

i mixed my connoisseur a & b about 30 minutes later. pH had remained stable around 6.1 and i was sitting around 250ppm. i pH Down'ed to 5.8pH. initially the controller showed around 800ppm, but once it diluted through the system and ran into all the buckets, i rechecked it a couple hours later to find it at 480ppm and pH stable at 5.8

again - playing the waiting game and going to see how they react to the new solution. here are a few pics taken while mixing the new solution:













ill be updating soon. cheers!

 

[Guest]

Look like you can flower soon

 

[kovenant]

slips -> where you been bro? im in flower

check out the last pic above... see the flower sites?

ill try to take a few more later and edit this post - they arent huge but they sure the hell are pretty!

 

[kovenant]

Day 18 of Flower.

think ive figured out something for my grow environment and the DWC system im using. i could definately be wrong - it's happened a time or two before - but it just feels right. this is what i think ive discovered about my setup.

i mix my nutes... lets say (like this last time) that i mix them to 400ppm @ 5.8pH

now, i havent been measuring my ppm prior to pH'ing - but i will from now on, especially to test this theory.

it seems that the next day or two - my water will show something like 320ppm @ 6.2pH. i add pH Down to get me back to 5.8 and the pH Down brings me back up to about 400ppm. (i've been measuring ppm at this point and wondering why it never drops... wondering if nutes arent getting used.)

so as the days go by... seems the nutes are being used and sapped from the solution - to be replaced by the pH Down being added to bring it into range. this obviously will cause problems once the nutes are gone - probably in the form of deficiencies once it gets past a certain point. im guessing that spot for my system is somewhere between 7-14 days, which means i should be doing a res change every 7 to 14 days.

id love to be able to get more use from my nutes (the Advance Nutrients can certainly be expensive) but in reality, i am. they are getting used and then i need to replace... just quicker than i thought. i read about people using their veg nutes all through veg, do a drain, and then use their flower nutes... im sure they are different systems though. maybe that is more possible with ebb&flow or something that doesnt have the nutrients running constantly for the plants to feed on. /shrug. again - all just speculation and theory i am feeling from my girls.

anyone with some experience please tell me if you think this is correct, or if im way off.

here are a few new pics from early this morning. i need to raise my lamp and figure out a way to even out my canopy tonight. either going to switch to tomato cages and bend the longer branches across and under the cages to the sides - or going to use a white string trellis, mounted to the walls, above th canopy and bend the longer stems under so the top is even. (i have ladies who are a good foot taller than the majority of the heads... remember i LST'ed so have multiple main shoots off each plant. some are taller than others - and i want to even them out.)

there be flowers.





now with this last one. im wondering if its normal for trainwreck to have purple stems on the fan leaves. the stems are all green save for many of the fan leaves showing the more purple stems. basically wondering if its the first signs of a deficiency (im scheduled for a res change coming up any time from now till next week) or if its normal coloring for TW

 

[Guest]

Hey Kovenant! Nice grow mate!

One thing that really stands out reading your latest update - mixing up nutes to 400ppm. I sincerely hope this is just an example number and not what you're working with.

What you're seeing is dead on though - it's also why most of use prefer to use 5gal buckets instead of 2gal ones... not because we like carrying more water to the rez but because it keeps the solution stable longer.

In your setup I would hate to have to do rez changes every 7 days. Hell, I dont bother changing my rez even when I switch from veg to flower...unless there's an issue I see.

What I'd recommend is use this process to mix nutes and take readings:

NOTE: This is how I mix em up.... my personal method, to each their own.

Mix up nutes to reach your goal EC - I'd recommend a final goal of 1.5 so you want to ramp up to that or around there if not already there (dont just raise it to this level in one change as you might see nute burn, instead add more as the days pass).
Make sure you also include any additives you're using (CalMag, etc)

Now I just put this in the system AS IS. I dont check the pH, adjust anything, etc...

I wait 2hrs give or take and THEN take readings. For some reason I've seen fluctation in pH and EC even if just sitting still for a couple hours. Not sure the science behind it but I've learned to adapt.

I take my pH reading first... then adjust pH to reach 5.8'ish. NOW take EC reading, as that will take into account the pH up/down used.

Say I do this on Monday. When Tuesday comes I TOP OFF THE REZ FIRST, then I check pH and adjust then I take an EC reading. I try to take my readings at the same time each day and try to avoid adjusting pH too much....I like it to drift say from 5.5 to 6.0... anything in this range and I just leave it.

As I continue this daily routine I track my EC... once it hits .9, I start to add nutes again to bring it back up to 1.5ish. NOTE: Adding nutes can have the same affect as using pH down, so make sure not to adjust your pH to 5.8 prior to doing this.

....and the cycle repeats.

Lastly - if you are taking measurements with uncalibrated pens it's like taking a measurement using a tape measure and your eyes closed. I clean every 30 days and recalibrate... take care of your tools.

 

[kovenant]

Klutter -> thanks for verifying what i see as a trend. i wasnt sure if it was safe to just add nutes back to the solution without draining and starting over... that may sound naive, but i figure some portions of the nutrients are probably used more than others (eg. maybe Nitrogen got sucked from the solution but Potassium didnt get used much) and if you just add new nutes - perhaps one (or more) will now be mixed too high or too low and cause deficiencies or lock out. again - these are theories that im thinking about just from what ive experienced. maybe this is or isnt true, and maybe it is true - but usually takes a longer time period to get to that point... which is why people do drain and flush from time to time.

that said. im going to try your method. it was kind of what i was leaning toward anyways... wanting to add and see how the girls react.

as far as 400ppm. i was using it as an example but i did actually mix up this last batch really light. i mixed it at about 550... next day it was around 430... its been lower since and so ill be adding in nutes this evening.

the reason behind that was - i was told the burn on my plants was from overfeeding. i was then told that AN connoisseur is pharmaceutical grade and that mixing it at the same parts per million as you would other fertilizers can cause major burn. going to begin adding a bit each day to try and take it up toward an EC of 1.5-2 (which even the Advanced Nutrients chart shows in week 3 i want to be around 1.8 EC on light/moderate feeding.)

i will definately take into consideration your advice to wait before adding any pH Up or Down... it makes sense that the nutes and addatives all added together will have a reaction period where things try to stablize themselves. 2 hours sounds like ample time for it to really circulate and get mixed.

my res auto-tops as it has a float attached to the larger res - so im always topped. in fact, the way i figured out that pH continued to rise without influence from the new (higher pH) RO water coming in was... i pH'ed my 100 gal res to 5.7pH (as opposed to 6.5) so that my incoming water would be where i want it but my levels were still raising.

anyhow, thanks for the quick response. always good to hear that what your thinking has some backbone to it.

at least i wont be spending as much time draining the whole system tonight... and wont waste what nutes are still in the system. cool beans!

 

[Guest]

Right on man - sounds like you're tackling it the right way.

I also agree that I was suspicious of doing add backs this way, for fear that some nutes would be locked out by others. But I have yet to actually see this play out through my experience. Plus I just knew there had to be a way to avoid the dreaded 7 day rez change, I mean what do growers who have hundreds of gallons do...cause they certainly dont flush it all weekly.

Good luck! Can't wait to see the result!

 

[kovenant]

also, any opinion, experience, or advice with using blackstrap molasses?

i purchased some from the local organic health-food grocer and i added some to my nute solution a few days ago (4 days ago i believe.) i've heard up to a tbsp per gallon, but i mixed it really weak for the first go - like 1/2 tsp per gallon.

here's the label of the particular brand i bought:





it seems to have a fair amount of Calcium, Iron, Potassium, Magnesium, Vitamin B, and Carbs.

i was wondering if i use the molasses - if i should use it in conjunction with AN's Sensi Cal Mg, or if i should exclude the Cal Mg while using molasses as it contains both (and more.)

the use of molasses as a supply of micros was kind of secondary. the main reason was for sweetening and giving some carbs. i know its good for the bioherd - but is there a bioherd present in this type hydro?

thanks for any thoughts!

-edit-
if the last batch i mixed up was 500'ish ppm - should i mix toward 700-800 tonight or might that be too much of a jump? im guessing ill mix it in the 700s and after 3-4 days, push it up into the 900s, 3-4 days (if all is going well) try for 1100s or so - which is where i should be.

 

[Guest]

First the EC increase...going with ppm's since that's what you're quoting. Mind you, my ppm conversion is 7.

Seedlings: 250ppm
Veg: start at 250 (coming from seedling) then every 2 days step up ppm's to reach 1400ppm
Flower: hold 1400ppm until last 3 weeks, at that point I just stop feeding and let her work her magic.

Stepping them up I normally increase by 200-300ppm every 3 days. This gives plenty of time to show me if I'm burning them by taking readings each morning... here's an example:

Monday: Start at 500ppm
Tues: let's say reading is 450ppm (great sign)
Wed: Take reading and let's say it's 400...now I add nutes to get it to 800ppm....
Repeat cycle.

I can usually tell if it's too much as the 2nd day I take a reading the ppm's will be higher or identical to what I started with.

Now as far as molasses... I've seen some use it in soil but not in hydro. I do NOT put anything like sugar, candy, molasses, honey, etc in my rez. I stick to what is proven to work, and I have yet to see sufficient evidence that these 'carb additions' actually do much good in hydro. THat's just me though, I question it all vs. just believing it - like reading up on guys who try to add koolaid so their buds are flavored... come on.

Lastly, one additive I'm a huge advocate of is Hydroguard. That and vermiculite houses for the little bioherds (panty hose ball, filled with vermiculite, dropped in rez). If you aren't using any type of subculture additive like this you will probably have beneficials but not many of them.

 

[kovenant]

klutter -> ooh now thats an idea. i hadnt heard of bioherd houses for hydro. easy enough concept. a ball of panty hose filled with vermiculite. and you just drop it in the controller? would it be beneficial to have in the buckets or does it not work well with the roots? i was going to add nematodes to my res - i'm guessing that having the housing would help give them a place to live. im guessing that the housing in the controller provides this place - and that then they circulate through the entire system helping out?

thanks for the model of how you step up your ppms. i will begin tonight in a similar fashion. good to know that the sign of nute lockup is the ppms not lowering... ive been pH'ing back down daily so i havent noticed the drop in ppm because i was adding pH Down prior to testing parts per million.

perhaps - knowing that my pH is going to rise - i will add my new batch of nutes to the solution. wait a couple/few hours. test pH and ppms again. and then pH down to 5.5 or so... knowing over the next days it is going to raise (and letting it raise naturally up to 6.1 or so...) which hopefully would be about 3 days later and allow me to mix in my stepped-up solution and pH Down for the next period.

thnx for the much needed advice - you've helped me with the exact things i was needing guidance with.


oh - and i just began week 3 flower... RH = 70%... when should i start using my dehumidifer?

 

[Guest]

Awesome Kovenant! It's what makes coming to ICMag so fantastic! So much to learn, share, etc!

My beneficial's house was made by getting some of the cheapest panty hose I could buy - cutting off just the foot - adding a handful of vermiculite - tying off - dropping in rez.

I put them in each DWC bucket (yes, I'm an overkill kinda guy - always lovin em to death) and 1 in the rez.... though since it's recirculating I suppose I could just have 1 in the main rez.

The other really cool thing about using the beneficial home is: You dont need to add as much hydroguard each week.... The label I think asks for 10-15ml per gallon... what I did was add that much for the first fill with new verm-balls. Then, a week later I just add 5ml per gal...and a week after only 2ml per gal (obviously I dont change out my rez each time, just add backs). Saves cash!

As far as the dehumidifier I believe you want that thing on for the last 2 weeks of flowering... when they will really pack on the weight. So if this is a 56-63 days of flower kinda strain, you'd wanna kick it on say around 45 days or so in to flower. Since most strains are not truly 'ready' at 56 days....

 

[kovenant]

thats funny. my first thoughts were dropping them in the buckets so they would be near the roots - but wasnt sure if the roots would grow around them and if that even matters... guess it would actually be good if they did (?) lol

okay - well im definately adding that to the mix. ill be updating over the next couple days

 

[kovenant]

so last night i mixed in a new batch of nutes around 6pm - after about 20mins solution was in the 800s. after letting it circulate until 11pm - testing showed my solution at 780ppm & 6.4pH. added pH Down and went to bed.

this morning @ 4:30am solution read 750ppm @ 6.1pH. (EC = 1.1) added pH Down and came to work.

i noticed a nice growth spurt occurred during my sleep. im assuming that the nice growth and lower ppms indicate some nutrients being absorbed by the girls. ill be watching closely for burn.

had to raise my lamps again too!

 

[kovenant]

i wanted to broach the topic of 2 things that have me concerned. i will add some pics tonight because obviously it helps to see what im talking about.

i believe one of my plants is developing root rot. it is also the plant that had the root aphid infestation that i treated with pesticide in my solution for 24 hrs then flushed. the aphids cleared up but now there is brown coloration in the center part of the roots (not the normal semi-brown nute film i get that usually washes out) - directly beneath the netpots - with what looks like a bit of slimey matter on just a very small portion. there is also a bit of mold/fungus growing along the base outside-rim of the netpots.

how do i treat this? im asking before i do anything. guessing i will want/need to trim away the bit of slimey roots. also scrub off the mold.

what else can be done? i added the bioherd housing (perlite in panty hose balls) to each bucket and one to the res. hoping to create a small habitate for beneficial micro organisms at the root base. mixed in new nutes along with pirahna, multi-zyme, and root excellerator for the roots.

i believe part of this problem is i am not getting a real bubbling affect in my buckets. im using air diffusers as opposed to air stones (as was recommended by blazeoneup in his tutorial) and am wondering if my air pumps just dont push enough air.

the 2nd issue that has my attention is a whitening/yellowing of the top foot or so portions of my plants. looks like something that might be bleaching from the lamps being too close - but its going down as far as almost 2 feet from the bottom of the lamps. question - since i believe i had a lock out 2 weeks ago, and then been flushing with just RO Water and then ran a very, very light nute mix (450ppm) during 3 week of flower... might the very light color in the new growth just be showing deficiency (or very low amounts) of nutrients to supply such growth? this is what im guessing... and im hoping i will see it improve over the next couple days.

 

[plumpm0nkey]

shit, how can you be getting root rot if your temps are good? im getting rot aswell, its starting to turn color, i put a fan on the controller and it is helping with the temps.

 

[Guest]

Not enough disolved 02, and overfeeding can cause root rot also.

 

[kovenant]

so... any ideas on what i can do for it?

there is definately enough disolved O2... the air diffusers supply plenty of oxygen (tons of small fizzy bubbles) just not large bubbling bubbles. if they dont need to be large bubbles then im not going to worry about a new air pump.

so what do i do to clear up the rot before it spreads (noted: dont overfeed) and what about the mold/fungus?


-edit-

oh, and that one day - while i was gone - when my power strip kicked off (the one my water chiller, air pumps, and AC were on...) temps of the water got to 79F with no air. im sure thats what caused it. even though things were back working within 4-14 hours (not sure how long they were off) it was probably enought to start the problems. just need to know what to do now to fix it

 

[Guest]

I got rid of my root rot with water being at 60, no higher, sm-90 2ml per gallen, AN baricade, and some benificial bacteria, nice white roots now. Also i think keeping the water level lower helps a bunch.
My system has only small bubbles as well and 15gl per hour drippers.
What didn't work
hydrogaurd
hydrozyme
h202
My understanding its very hard to kill the root rot causing bacteria, and the next best thing is just to make the living conditions unfaverable.

 

[kovenant]

I got rid of my root rot with water being at 60, no higher, sm-90 2ml per gallen, AN baricade, and some benificial bacteria, nice white roots now. Also i think keeping the water level lower helps a bunch.
My system has only small bubbles as well and 15gl per hour drippers.
What didn't work
hydrogaurd
hydrozyme
h202
My understanding its very hard to kill the root rot causing bacteria, and the next best thing is just to make the living conditions unfaverable.

thanks slips. now let me make sure i understand correctly. when you say your water being at 60, no higher.. you mean you had your water chilled to 60 degrees? and beneficial bacteria... how did you add these (what product or what type of bacteria did you use)? maybe ill lower my water level a bit... was just worried about only the bottom portion of the roots being in the water - that the temps outside the water (around the base of the netpots) would be high and make those roots more prone to rot or bacteria.

did you have some mold or fungi anywhere around the roots as well? what should i do to treat that?

thnx!