16 day old plant, yellowing around leaf edges [with pix]

[MynameStitch]

You are using GHE which is a dry form, use liquid one that does not have calcium or magnesium added. Just plain Phosphoric acid.

What are you using to test the pH?
That is the pH range you want to be, but......
Lime can cause pH to rise, but in heavy amounts large amounts it can also make the pH drop as well; when there is a lot of lime to lower the pH, it's in too large of amounts to be safe to the plant, so first before we know if you need to even use pH down, flush the plants really good with water, they will show signs of overwatering from the flush, but it can't be avoided. After the flush, the next time they need water you check the pH of the run off and we can go from there.

 

[anthonyblunt]

I use a pH pen - a Trans Instrument Horti Care I think the name is. The branding on it is somewhat confusing.

Ok - I'll get flushing and will report back soon. Thanks for all this, and the clarification on the GH pH Down

Anthony

 

[bhuda-master]

ME OW!!

now now gents, just to chip in i think im using the same compost as you, im having exactly the same probs as you,7-8 ph no nutes yet im just a bit further down the line.

my leaves have gone crispy, ive adjusted the ph using natural lemon juice so im gonna see how that goes,

i have canna nitrogen,magnesium and pottasium in individual bottles, should i add any of these to the water if it is a nutrient issue???

bhuda-master

 

[Buddle]

stitch...I want to thank you!!

stitch...I want to thank you!!

Hey all...Good thread. I have been tackling water and lockout problems of my own. I settled on pro mix and all mix blend,coarse perlite,and air stone bubbled city water.I have a hand dug well(old house).my water was @ 7.7 ph..cold...warm it was @ 6.7....HOWEVER that didn't mean shit cuz theres so much iron etc in it.My plants did exactly as Stitch described.The extra iron coupled with the lime etc..threw my plants for a loop.They were bunched.Normal on one side and curled up growth on the other side..
I found it was a combo of my cold temps and bad water.I increased my temps and started bubbling my water.my plants are MUCH healthier.I'm actually not afraid to show them off now.If I could just get out of this underfeeding habit.I am programmed after MUCH reading to not overfeed.problem is I'm underfeeding.Slowly but surely they are getting to the quality of my outdoor..thx again Stitch!!

 

[anthonyblunt]

Update 24 hours later:

Watered one of the plants that the soil had dried on with unadulterated tap water with a pH of 8

The run-off was 6.5.

Does this mean I don't need to bother with ph adjustment for the moment? Is the run off the true measurement of the pH of the soil?

 

[MynameStitch]

bhuda-master: hey man, if you want post some info in another thread so this one won't get complicated: more people will help you out when you give many details and pics. No 2 grows are alike, his problem may be similar, but his is caused by underfeeding, where yours may be caused by it or pH issues. Ph can cause problems to mimic an underfeeding problem or overfeeding problem, so the more details you can give on yoru grow and such the better.

Also lemon juice is not a stable pH adjuster, you will need to get a pH up or down some a hydro shop or they have pH adjusters at a pet shop, but you need to make sure it does not list sodium on the label, you want to avoid that at all costs.

Buddle: glad to see things turning around man Hope you show me some bud shots when she gets harvested

Anthony: Your pH is off, it needs to be lower the run off is the true measurement of the soil. You get a more accurate reading though when you use RO or distilled water. but right now you just need to flush a lot to rinse out excess mag and cal problem.

After it's fixed we can get the pH fixed.
Also note when a lot of the lime is rinsed from the soil, the pH will go down so you won't need to adjust it.

 

[anthonyblunt]

Thanks very much MynameStitch.

I would have thought 6.5 was an okay pH for a soil grow?

I flushed each plant, which is in a small 10cm pot, with about 1.5 gallons of water. Should I do this again? How many times should I repeat this?

Also it's 19 days since the seeds broke the soil and I'm anxious enough to transplant - once I get some soil which isn't so limey...

 

[sirgrassalot]

I stopped the nutrients and just watered then for 2 weeks with unadulterated tap water - no pH adjustment - and they recovered really well. Don't know if that sheds any more light or makes things more confusing....

I still think it's a nute burn.
That pH is fine & has nothing to do with the problem.

Sick Guides Nute Burn.


These are just my observations.

 

[anthonyblunt]

Thanks for that Sirgrassalot. Obviously I have no idea what the problem is. The yellowing has spread up the sides of the affected leaves and they're a bit shrunken.

If it's calcium and magnesium toxicity or nutrient burn the solution seems to me the same in both cases - flush the medium and get a different soil mix.

I bought a cheap bag of rhododendron compost today because it has little or no lime but the pH of the run off is 4.2 which seems way too low. I think I'll get a bag of Biobizz Light Mix from the Hydro store

 

[MynameStitch]

It's not too hot nutrient, it's too hot of micros, your only looking at the tips, the entire plant needs to be looked at. Besides the tips of those, that happened not so recent, meaning it happend long enough for the plant to turn the tissue necrotic meaning the tissue was dead, the isssue stopped and that is not to be looked at.

The entire plant is to be looked over and it has too much micros involved. Again sirgrassalot, you can't go just by pictures, because the guy who had that picture had his seedlings in FFOF soil, so this guy has a seed starter mixture, so you tell me how a seed starter mixture causes nutrient burn?

Would you care to explain or elaborate on this one please?
The mixture you have, you can add a little lime to it, lime is perfectly safe if used correctly. you can use 1/2 cup to a cubic feet of soil and your mixture should be kept within the normal soiless pH range.

BUt yes, I would flush the plant out with the amount I suggested in my previous post and later remove them from the soil when the mixture dries up a little bit.

BUt ya, those tips anthonyblunt, I would not worry about that, it's the plants overall general health, reason why I say not to worry about the tips, is because the tissue is dead and has been dead for some time, when it changes that color it was due to roots being damaged cutting off water and nutrients to the part of the leaf. Each root hair and roots help bring water to each part of the plant, so when one part of it's roots is affected the plant will show it depending on where the roots were affected.
When roots are damaged or ripped, the plant will reroute how the leaves get moisture and try to save the leave while the plant regrows the damaged roots.

 

[sirgrassalot]

Please who said I only went by the pictures & that I didn't look at the whole plant You assume much as you moon (full moon much). It loses its fullness daily. You're not making any sense again.

I know very little about the soil - there are no ingredients on the sack.

It says it's "specially developed to care for delicate seeds." It claims to have "the right balance of nutrients and trace elements added to high quality Irish sphagnum moss peat... also contains a high level of wetting agents... not suitable for lime-hating plants... can be used when sowing seeds, rooting cuttings and potting plants throughout the year."

I'd like to know what the nutrients are.

--------------------------------------------------------------------fin









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ambiguous 1. Open to more than one interpretation: an ambiguous reply.

 

[anthonyblunt]

Just a quick update on this: the flushing with plain tap water seems to have done the plants a lot of good. The original leaves which were affected have withered and gone yellow but the rest of the leaves are pretty healthy and growing away nicely. Out of the three stains I have going at the moment - Tribal Vision, Kalichakra and Satori - the latter were the worst affect and are still a little shakey but are doing better.

I am now not using any dry pH down - just plain tap water - and pH run off is between 6.1 and 6.5. I also have transplanted the plants into Biobizz light mix and they seem to like that too.

Unfortunately I have misplaced my camera so I can't give any photo evidence right now, but many thanks to everyone who gave advice and help. If you don't hear from me again it means everything is going great!

Anthony

 

[MynameStitch]

Well whenever you find it, I would love a before and after pic

 

[anthonyblunt]

Satori before:





Satori after - you can still see the old damaged leaves but the new growth is fine:






Thanks again for all the help on this one

 

[anthonyblunt]

In other news, one of my Tribal Visions is looking a bit ropey again. It's now day 28 of veg. I transplanted it into Biobizz Light Mix, gave it a light dose of Dr Hornby's Iguana Juice Grow [2ml per litre, instructions say to put in 3.5], but now there is some further discoloration on some lower leaves that were previously alright.

Thinking there might still have been a bit too many micronutrients I just flushed the plant very well with plain tap water. The run-off is somewhere between 6.1-6.5. I am on the right track?

My Satori and Kalichakra are doing alright on the same mix and nutes.

Here is the Tribal Vision in question:








Many thanks for any help

 

[sirgrassalot]

I'm a firm believer in feeding when they're hungry. I don't want any N in my soils. I give them what they need when they need it. It just makes the grow simpler. I've never had to flush a plant in all the years I've grown until harvest. Your plants are looking much better after you flushed the hot soil with tap water. I'd top up the soil in the pots & add a pinch of Epsom salt to the soil.

 

[anthonyblunt]

Thanks a million. What will the epsom salts do? Do you reckon the soil has too much nutrients? Biobizz Light Mix is not a particularly hot mix, I don't think.

 

[MynameStitch]

Perfect, back on track, agreed get some epsom salts 1/2 tsp per gallon of water, when they get a lot bigger up it to 1 tsp per gallon of water.

I would use it everytime you feed and if you are using RO water, use it everytime you water, or use 50/50 tap RO water. Sorry if I forgot what you were using, I help a lot of people and sometimes I get confused.

 

[anthonyblunt]

Just a quick query for MynameStitch - with the earlier problem I was having in this thread you diagnosed an excess of magnesium and calcium, I think attributed to the lime in my soil, the GHE pH down I was using and perhaps my tap water.

I've now ditched the soil and no longer use GHE. Do I now have a magnesium deficiency? Have I gone too far the other way?

 

[MynameStitch]

No, you did a proper flushing, Ithink I remember telling you that when you flush it would also flush out excess and good stuff.

If you need to use pH down use the GHE, but I think it would be wiser to use epsom salts....... or cal mag.

Have you checked your pH run off lately?
If it comes out too high you can kill 2 birds with one stone and use the GHE.
After this problem is fixed and the plant gets enough back you may not have to use it when you use tap water, cause smaller plants like that in soil do not need to have high amounts of cal mag and a lot of times hard water when using tap is sufficient enough.

The recent flush is what rinsed all the excess out, which was what you wanted. After a flush it is normal for a plant to show a deficiency or nutrient related problem, a lot of times it can't be avoided, because of the nature of the fix.