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16-18Kw house grow - tips&help with sorting out electricity
- Thread starter ericsson
- Start date
B4URTIME
Member
Thanks for all the information & input to the fellaz helping out!
The house is based is Europe, where we're running 220/240v.
I will have to do my best trying to tackle/solve the electricity problem on my own, obviously operating in a flip mode with two 10x 600HPS rooms.
Can't imagine I'd be able to get in touch with the council (even if I spoke the language) to arrange changing the wires running from the utility pole. Cheers for the warning and suggestions, unfortunately I can't find any specs on the cable insulation - so all that's possible for me to do is give an approx. diameter measurement.
I'm already fully geared up and it won't be possible to change my lighting setup at this stage, all I can do is cut down on the size of the grow (which I really wouldn't want to). Perhaps Rives will have a look and also drop a few lines of advice
Thanks for popping in Raho, all thoughts and ideas appreciated!
Here is a general outlook on the power demand I'll have when running two flower rooms + a small veg tent:
Lights:
20x HPS 600W, Lumatek electronic ballasts
A/C & dehum.:
2x portable A/C with dehum., cooling capacity: 2,33 kW / 8 kBTU, power: 900W
2x portable A/C, cooling capacity 2,6kW (8.8kBTU), power: 800W
Vents:
2x 100w
4x 70w
4x 40w
10x 20w
Fans:
8x 40w
Humidifiers:
2x 15w
Regarding dividing of the load, I basically need to do a new, external wiring from the main power supply (which is outside the house), or the power-board (which is indoors) for all three grow rooms and build a new, dedicated panel for this purpose.
I was hoping that some of you would be able to advise how would it be best to split the power delivery (one cable from each of the three, 80A main power supply cables running into the house?) and what kind of sub-panel to build for the growrooms to best group the lights / ballasts so that they can manage with the available power / breakers I will install.
I can't dedicate the entire house (in terms of power) for just the grow, as it's also a living place - but it would be possible to cut down the house energy requirements to the very minimum (there's a dish washer, washing machine and electric water heater that would be the main power consumers - apart from that it's just LED lights for the house, two computers and about 2000w for any "extras" running when used - such as a hoover, microwave or kettle).
Also, I'm not able to say how that big electric heater in the garage works (and how is it powered /from where/), but that also can be cut off, as I'll be using a warm air distribution system to heat the house during colder periods.
Cheers for the link, after we burnt out the old-ass wires in the wall of the veg areas (running @2000w) when plugging in a 1600w hoover, I started going through various threads here - but I surely won't be able to plan this out with help from you guys anyway.
Once again I'm really thankful for all the interest and information that gets provided here - you hemp heads are truly a great community of people!!
I'll post up replies to the other messages within' the next hour or two.
Stay safe & catch U soon,
e.
You are grossly underestimating your cooling needs, Am I reading correctly? You plan to cool 12000w of light with 4 8kbtu portable air conditioners?
If that is correct your calculations do not even give you 3,000btu of cooling per 1000w. Not to mention portable ac's are the least efficient in terms of cooling per watt is concerned.
You need to go all the way back to the drawing board and start over this is a fairly large operation and you seem to lack the experience needed. Good luck.
You are grossly underestimating your cooling needs, Am I reading correctly? You plan to cool 12000w of light with 4 8kbtu portable air conditioners?
If that is correct your calculations do not even give you 3,000btu of cooling per 1000w. Not to mention portable ac's are the least efficient in terms of cooling per watt is concerned.
You need to go all the way back to the drawing board and start over this is a fairly large operation and you seem to lack the experience needed. Good luck.
OP this guy is right. You have nowhere near as much AC as you'll need for that much lighting. 16-18k of lighting would require a MINIMUM of 48,000 BTU of cooling at 3000 btu per light. IMO you're better off with 4k BTU per light so up that to 64,000 BTU of cooling needed. That is a 6 ton unit that you will need. Not impossible, but expensive.
As for your power issue, a 6 ton unit will probably require a 50-60 amp designated circuit, and even 12k watts of light will require a MINIMUM of 50 amps. Given the age and appearance of your electrical panel, I'm going to mirror what previous posters have said. Please, for your safety, go back to the drawing board. We've all been there OP, and I'm not trying to shame you in any way shape or form. What you're asking and planning on is just simply not doable with what you've currently got and planned upon.
Best wishes OP
Your in a interesting spot there..First I would run a new panel direct for the grow from the main. Disconnecting everything feeding the house, run temporary power from your new panel to power things needed in the house. depending on weather you could cool 6000w air cooled with a 2ton minisplit , don't bother with portables 1 -2 hoods ya a fukin 10hood room ass backwards n totally fukin you considering your limiting conditions... It could be done if your serious but won't be easy. Your plan needs some major adjustments and money, imo it'll probably be better to run less then planned unless you own the house the costs to make it work safe n right for a large grow may not make sense. Just consider all factors... Good luck
Hi rives & thanks 4 showing up!
Luckily (or un-luckily), it's not my mess – but I have to deal with it due to the fact it's me using the house.
I'll do the measurements you've mentioned, as for the wires sizes, what would be the best way to provide an exact size (diameter?).
You're correct that the top wires are about 40-50% smaller than the ground power cables.
Since the ground cables seem to be a decent size, would it be possible / recommended to setup three separate power boards / panels – one for each 6-8K watt flower room and one divided between the house appliances and the veg area?
Also, can you advice what components / breaker size should a sub-panel for the flower rooms hold?
If anyone else would also care to leave some tips regarding the setup of sub panels for my requirements, please feel free to do so, as I haven't built one before and some I've seen in the growroom setup forums seem a bit overcomplicated looking at what I'm dealing with.
Once again rives, thank you for coming over and posting your thoughts / observations.
On the first page of this thread I've stated the estimated power requirements I'll be needing for the grow operation. A few posts above, OldPhart wrote that with 220v and three phases even around 30 000 watts should be possible to run from those power feed cables - this should easily power both my grow than the house (lights, devices etc.).What do three 80A connectors add up to (in terms of amperes)?
Since the electricity here is obviously a disaster, do you think that cutting off the old power board, and setting up three separate panels running the three 500V / 80A ground feed cables (as I mentioned above) would be a good solution (perhaps just connecting into a groups in the ancient power board to supply necessary elements with power for the house)?
Surely, for such an operation I'll need to bring in an electrician anyway, but at this point I don't want to end up redoing all electrics in the building and come up with a temporarily solution, lasting for the next 12-18 months.
zdarec, jak to vypadá co čez a zálohy nebo doplatek?
,ěj se!
A't se daří!
I didn't get everything you wrote (google translate), but yes – I'm facing trouble with the electric installation in the house, hence this thread.
Cheers and good luck to you as well
You are grossly underestimating your cooling needs, Am I reading correctly? You plan to cool 12000w of light with 4 8kbtu portable air conditioners?
If that is correct your calculations do not even give you 3,000btu of cooling per 1000w. Not to mention portable ac's are the least efficient in terms of cooling per watt is concerned.
You need to go all the way back to the drawing board and start over this is a fairly large operation and you seem to lack the experience needed. Good luck.
Hello B4!
Yes, you got it right – I have two 8.8kBTU and two 8kBTU A/C's, adding up to 33.5kBTU's.
The two flower rooms they are meant for are quite cool, isolated areas and don't heat up even in full sun (plus one will be running in the evening/nighttime), therefore I'm hoping to get away with the four portable units. If not, I'll just have to add in some extra).
The veg area seems to be fine with proper ventilation and also afternoon / night running cycles.
All the input and advice appreciated, this it the first time I'm trying to go over a 4K watt grow – so surely good luck will be needed, thanks! Sending all the best to you as well
16-18k isn't in lights, but the whole grow operation and gear used in it. Lights on their own will be 12k, giving a minimum of 36kBTU (and at present I have 33.5k BTU, which is not that far off).
There is no possible way for me to get a full-on, 6 ton unit installed here – both financially and due to other factors related to the house and my surroundings.
Only alternative would be adding one more 8kBTU portable A/C, and if need be I'll do it (worst case scenario would be cutting down on the amount of lights to maintain acceptable temperature).
No worries, no offence taken – I'm aware of the fact there's still plenty I need to learn and I appreciate the fact that people here are giving me tips and pointing in the right direction.
Best wishes to you as well, and all the good people sharing their time and knowledge with me!
Keep smiling and overgrow the world
e.
I would advise getting a hold of an electrician, I know it's less than ideal but a fire is much less ideal. I am am not sure what country you are in but their are national forums here mabey use Google translate and try in those forums to find a person who is familiar with the electric systems f or the country you find yourself in. I would hate to see you on the show locked up abroad.
Hey stoney, not sure if I'd label it "interesting"
, but surely demanding and I need to find a way to better my situation.That was my thought I asked about just in the message above - running separate panels for each flower room and using the third ground feed cable to provide power for the minimum amount required for house devices and the veg area.
Not exactly sure (or more like - I have very little idea) how to safely plan out such panels in terms of wire size, breaker size and any other components that should be included. Obviously, I don't want to be installing new electrics, so this would be a temporary "guerrilla" setup, but I'd like to keep it as safe as possible in my circumstances. At this point I think I'll have to get help from an electrician, but perhaps only to hook up the few things required for the house from one of the three ground feed cables and prepare the remaining two for me the use, as it will be hard to explain why do I want cables / panels strangely running through the house and to two rooms only..
Cutting down on the amount of lights would be the last resort, but as said earlier - if I won't be able to manage any other way, it will happen.
Cheers and take care buddy!
Hi packerfan, I think running everything from scratch, starting with the three main power feed 500V/80A cables outside and re-connecting just a few areas in the old distribution panel for the minimal house requirements is too much for my skills and knowledge, therefore getting someone over seems like the only solution at this point (fuck!).
Your idea with national forums could be a starting point, although speaking through google translate (especially when it comes to technical things and explanations) would be rather difficult - not to mention I'd need to have someone explain this shit to an electrician that I won't be able to fully communicate with..
At this point I'm seriously considering finding someone from my country, close to the boarder and "importing" him over here. Another positive coming from such a solution might be the fact that even if he found the whole thing somewhat fishy, he probably wouldn't bother to report it to authorities in a foreign country (and language).
Can anyone estimate how long it could/shoul take to get this sorted by a professional - at least to the "guerrilla" type installation I plan to use for this place?
Before you make ANY plans, you need to determine what you are working with. From my limited understanding of European distribution, 3-phase 4-wire is very common. Going by the picture of the incoming service, you are missing the neutral in that arrangement (4-wire does not include the ground). Most of the systems appear to be 220Y380, 230Y400, or 240Y415. In these, the phase-to-neutral voltage is the lower one and the phase-to-phase voltage is the higher one (220 & 380, in the case of the first example). At least in the US, the neutral would not be fused, and as mentioned, it would not be the ground. If it is 3-phase, then the load needs to be balanced as closely as possible between the phases.
The size of the lower cabling is totally irrelevant in regards to what you have to work with. The fact that they are substantially larger than the feeders, and there are three on each pole, simply points out that the installation was done poorly to start with unless they are feeding very distant points and somebody was compensating for voltage drop. The size of the wire from the top of the fuses to the transformer feeding the residence is what is going to determine your capacity. The wire can be measured with calipers, but the power would need to be off - the conductor itself is what needs to be measured, not the insulation (there are many kinds of insulation, and the thickness varies accordingly).
You simply need a service change,any electrician can do that easily and without asking any questions at all if he knows the total load on all branch circuits.He just wouldn't give a shit if he's anything like an American electrician.You need to figure out your total load ampacity and run a service wire size that will be adequate to existing codes where you're at.It does seem like a 3 phase system as opposed to single phase which we run down here.You need to really look at your expected power consumption in amperes,tell an electrician so he can do an adequate service change terminating at a main distribution panel,then from there I think folks can help you with subpanels and branch circuitry sort of thing
Thanks for the advice, I'm in the process of getting an electrician to help.
In the meantime, would anyone be able to leave some instructions what will be left for me to do after the sparky is done (making sub-panels for the flower rooms?) and what size breakers should I use for that purpose - so I can start collecting the components necessary?
A big "thank you" to all icmag'ers!
No not really.You say the sparky will be installing subpanels for each room to cover the power consumption for each room and their loads,thats 90% of your work right there if he has the right information.From there you need to determine branch circuit loads and determine breakers size for those loads.This is done with amperage of all individual loads, so you guys running higher voltages will be able to get away with smaller branch circuit size wiring because of the smaller amperage draw.You really need an across the big pond sparky,although it's all really the same.Bluntly put your total load in amperage will determine panel,wire,and breaker size for the individual branch circuits.Your total estimated load shall not exceed 80% of the size of the service.In the NEC the word shall means mandatory with no wiggle room whatsoever.EDIT Haa I just realized the NEC means nothing tin this case!
tanokosohana
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3 years later? Seriously? You woke up and decided to thank?)
TychoMonolyth
Boreal Curing
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