150w HPS Club and Resource Guide......

[catman]

I used a high quality Lumatek digital ballast that claimed to not interfere with RF, but it did. This could pose a security risk depending on where you grow.

My ecconolight 150w ballast isn't very loud at all. I can't hear it over my Whisper anyway.

 

[disfunktional]

i hope you dont mind my newb question but whats the problem with it interfereing with RF? and what is RF?

 

[catman]

RF stands for Radio Frequency. Basically it is a signal that is put that can be detected. I'm not saying there are people out there looking for such signals to bust grows, but the interference could disrupt your neighbors TV, internet, and phone service. Those companies may look for where it the interference is coming form and trace it to your location.

 

[disfunktional]

wow would the 150w digi be safe? or all digi ballasts puit out the same RF? and are there any ways to block it and keep it from doing that? sorry for all the questions but iv got neighbors all around me. im glad i asked what a RF was thanx man!

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

wow would the 150w digi be safe? or all digi ballasts puit out the same RF? and are there any ways to block it and keep it from doing that? sorry for all the questions but iv got neighbors all around me. im glad i asked what a RF was thanx man!

The way I understand it, 1st generation 150s required shielded cable to work w/o rf interference. 250s and up are not a problem (so I've heard) but I never learned exactly why. It may have to do with component frequency. Our host is an engineer and may give us the skinny.

The digitals you linked to earlier are FCC tested and approved. They even state no shielded cable necessary. This sounds like the real deal but I'm reluctant to be the guinea pig.

 

[rostenoc]

wow great info guys much appreciated!!

 

[disfunktional]

hmm? that would that be shielded cable going to the light right? if so its worth the added feeling of security to use it imo.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Hard to say, disfunktional. Maybe somebody could test a common cable with a shielded one. Trouble is, rf interference might affect your neighbor instead of your own crib.

Catman, how did you discover the interference with your digi? Is it a 150?

 

[catman]

Worrying about such things like RF is trivial to some, but in my experiences I like to control every risk I can because it makes the risks I can't control easier to accept.

The ballast used was a 600w and it wasn't an older (blue) version of the ballast. It was setup up in an apartment and whenever it would be on the TV quality would slightly diminish. This was cable tv so the conclusion I had to draw was the interference was traveling through the coaxial cables in the walls. The thing to worry about is that this coaxial lines are shared in the apartment somewhere so I don't know if the noise on the signal traveled to others.

I did three years as an electrical engineer so I know a bit about how the Electromagnetic force works and imagine those who developed the ballast do as well. My intuition tells me this an unavoidable issue of digital ballasts.

Maybe a 150w digital puts off a much smaller EM field, but the cable company has sensitive instruments to detect signal noise if it makes its way into the coaxial network. All it would take is some neighbor complaining that his HD TV signal isn't crystal clear and perhaps they could pick it up.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

thanks catman, this little buzzer is looking better all the time.

 

[Pipedream]

We are all surrounded by RF every minute of our lives. With every breath we take, RF is constantly pouring thru our bodies at the speed of light. Not thru our breathing, but just thru the open air around us. If it didn't, we couldn't watch on-air TV, satellite, talk on our cellphones, or even listen to a radio. Plus many of the appliances we use every day generate unneeded unwanted RF in their normal operation. Your microwave, your refrigerator, your washing machine, and even your electric razor just to name a few. Want easy quick proof? Just grab an old AM Transistor Radio,turn it on to an empty frequency (no station), and take a tour of your home. Hold it in front of anything you plug in. Of course make sure both the radio and the item you're checking is turned on. You'll know when you find RF. Don't forget those AC motor alarm clocks and regular florescent fixtures, they're huge culprits. Voila, you now have a working RF detector and can be an RF detective for what its worth.

So what is it worth in our 150HPS world? Not much if anything. There are so many things already generating RF noise in our homes that the addition of a small digital ballast can't even be detected above it. Now lets add this to the fact that with the recent conversion to Digital Television Transmission in the US, the huge numbers of subscribers on either Digital Cable, Satellite, or FIOS, all of which are virtually impervious to RF, who's left out there to be affected?

If you want to buy a digital ballast because you care about the environment, think they look cool or operate cooler, are quieter, or are more compact, go for it and enjoy it. If you think this is a safety/detection issue, save your money.

One last note....Don't worry about coaxial cable (coax) picking up your RF. The whole point of coax design is to keep the wanted signals in with little loss while keeping the unwanted RF out. It has a very high Signal to Noise Ratio. Its the old flat-twin antenna wire and off-air recievers that were most affected.

JMHO Regards to all, PD

 

[disfunktional]

i dont know abuot anyone else but im convinved. looks like il go with the digi. thanx PipeDream that was very informative and helpful.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

works for me too

 

[catman]

From another grow forum.

Hello,

I have a 600 watt hps with a digital greenhouse ballast. The cable company has cut off my service because they traced a cable "leak" to my house. I've had the ballast on for a couple months and haven't noticed any problems. They want to come inside and test the lines to see where the leak is before hooking my cable back up.

I made sure the ballast was in a grounded outlet. I've heard that the digital ballasts cause RF interference, but what can I do to shield this?

Thanks

I just wanted to make it clear that I'm not blowing smoke, but might be a little paranoid. If you get the 150w digital you could always test it out with a TV before using it long term. You could then let share the results with us I'm sure a lot of 150w growers are apartment dwellers so this would be nice to know.

 

[disfunktional]

From another grow forum.



I just wanted to make it clear that I'm not blowing smoke, but might be a little paranoid. If you get the 150w digital you could always test it out with a TV before using it long term. You could then let share the results with us I'm sure a lot of 150w growers are apartment dwellers so this would be nice to know.

i will definitely do that when i get it catman. i dont have cable nor do i live in an apartment but i am surrounded by neighbors. idk we will have to see and il post my results whenever tthat day comes.

 

[CarlMoss]

'Sup potheads.

I'm a chronic (hah!) lurker from the OG days. Never posted there, never posted here, but I'm in the planning stages and some input on my plans would be just peachy. I have a few grows under my belt in my younger years but always put the cart before the horse. I'm sure we've all done it, and I see plenty of youngins on here doing it to this day. You know the type, pop some beans, then scramble to get them in a cab with proper light, ventilation, etc all while trying to spend less than $100 dollars. Needless to say, I've never had good results, but I do know what I'm doing for the most part. This time I'm doing things differently, I'm not starting anything until I have everything ready to roll.

Part of this outlook comes from the fact that I'm actually not even a smoker right now, so I have all the time in the world. I quit years ago for a job. It was great work with great pay but they liked to randomly drug test their employees, so I had to quit. Well, now they laid me off, so fuck it, let's grow some trees!

I think I have an idea of what I want to do now, so I figured it's time to put it up for critique. I started off lurking my local craigslist a few months back, waiting for the perfect cab to pop up, and whaddyaknow it did. 15 bucks for this beastly fellow...(pic1)



This guy was about 6 feet tall, by 33" wide and 24" deep. Originally my plan was to take out the shelves and pop a 150 in there and upgrade to a 400 at some later point in time. Well, after just about killing myself getting the thing in to the house I realized that this was just far too much cab for my needs. So I decided it was time to get out my old p.o.s. cordless tool set and chop this bitch down to size. I decided to do something similar to what NGB back on OG did, but only on a slightly larger scale. First order of business was lopping the top third of the cab off completely, and then removing the remaining shelf. After some cutting I ended up with this...(pic2)


This gave me some nice leftover wood to make a little mother chamber out of. I decided to put a roof on the mother chamber because I don't feel that I need the entire vertical height for moms and clones. This also leaves me some room for venting, fans, electrical, etc...(pic3)


I took that image in to paint to make a crude mock up of what I'm thinking about doing with the space...(pic4)


The black represents air intakes (probably pvc) The plan is to have 4 2-inch intakes on the back wall of the mother room, then four 2-inch intakes on the roof and then using elbows to take the pipes down the inside wall to the bottom of the flowering chamber. This will get the warmest air out of the mother chamber, but I'm only going to use a few low wattage cfl's in there so at that point it should only be a few degrees above ambient.

They yellow obviously represents the light, a sun system 150w hps. I'm using this light because of the low profile and the fact that I won't have to dick around with a remote ballast.

The white represents a carbon filter situated above the light with an inline fan attached that will pull the air through the filter and push it out of the cab through a hole in the back wall.

The final dimensions....
The mother/clone room is 11" wide X 24" deep X 32" tall. This will be perfect for 2 mothers in 2 gallon pots, and still leave me some room for a little bubble cloner.
The flower chamber is 19"W x 24"D x 40 something inches tall. The light will be a maximum of 32" from the bottom of the cab so as to not waste light in the dead space on top of the mother chamber. I feel this is about perfect for a 250watt, but I think a 150 will do. I don't need a massive harvest and the 150 is cheaper to run and less of a hassle to deal with as far as heat. The fan will be a Sunleaves Windtunnel (200cfm) and either a homemade or ELF carbon filter. Feedback on any of these pieces of hardware would be appreciated.

As far as grow plans go, I can fit two 5 gallon buckets in the flower chamber, so I can do two bushes lst'd or I can scrog or whatever, haven't really decided on that. I plan on getting Hashberry and Sadhu from Mandala. One strain to get me flying and one to knock me the hell out I'm also considering doing a sog setup using 2 liter bottles. That's still TBD, but the nice thing is that I have options.

I obviously have a long way to go with things. I have the back wall off, but that's good to go, just need to put some holes in it and slap it on there. I'm at a bit of a loss as far as closing up the front of it. I'm considering just weatherstripping all of the plywood on the front facade and then latching on a piece of 3/4 ply with some sort of latch system (hard to describe, but it makes sense in my head). I do NOT want to mess with doors and hinges - it's all a major pita to try to light proof.

I'm still very much in the early stages of this. Like I said, I recently lost my job and unemployment is running at about 30% in my city (so be grateful it's only 10% +/- where you are!) So a steady income is still a long ways off, and I'll be damned if I spend my unemployment monies on pot growing - priorities, right?

Anyways, just looking for some feedback on my ideas, all are welcome to opine. Hopefully within the next 6-12 months I'll be posting some frosty bud pics on this here thread

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Hello CarlMoss.

This gave me some nice leftover wood to make a little mother chamber out of. I decided to put a roof on the mother chamber because I don't feel that I need the entire vertical height for moms and clones. This also leaves me some room for venting, fans, electrical, etc...(pic3)


I took that image in to paint to make a crude mock up of what I'm thinking about doing with the space...(pic4)


The black represents air intakes (probably pvc) The plan is to have 4 2-inch intakes on the back wall of the mother room, then four 2-inch intakes on the roof and then using elbows to take the pipes down the inside wall to the bottom of the flowering chamber. This will get the warmest air out of the mother chamber, but I'm only going to use a few low wattage cfl's in there so at that point it should only be a few degrees above ambient.

You have an interesting setup and a very nice start for $15 and some elbow grease. It may be easier to leave the back panel off until you get all the hardware mounted. Just my opinion on that one.

The trickiest part about the whole thing will be air flow. In a typical setup (with one chamber) passive intake is usually 2x the exhaust size. If you have a 4" exhaust, two 4" holes will work for the intake. Multiple chambers just makes the whole thing a little trickier.

They yellow obviously represents the light, a sun system 150w hps. I'm using this light because of the low profile and the fact that I won't have to dick around with a remote ballast.

Don't know if you already have the light. If not, HTG Supply has a 150x HPS remote ballast and fixture for $70.00 shipped. The cables are long enough to put the ballast outside the cab if you want.

The final dimensions....
The mother/clone room is 11" wide X 24" deep X 32" tall. This will be perfect for 2 mothers in 2 gallon pots, and still leave me some room for a little bubble cloner.
The flower chamber is 19"W x 24"D x 40 something inches tall. The light will be a maximum of 32" from the bottom of the cab so as to not waste light in the dead space on top of the mother chamber. I feel this is about perfect for a 250watt, but I think a 150 will do.

I think you're right. You'll get better than 47 wpsf with a 150. You can always swap a 250 in the future if you want.

I don't need a massive harvest and the 150 is cheaper to run and less of a hassle to deal with as far as heat. The fan will be a Sunleaves Windtunnel (200cfm) and either a homemade or ELF carbon filter. Feedback on any of these pieces of hardware would be appreciated.

200cfm may even be enough air for a 250 if you ever upgrade. You may get less noise if you add a speed controller to the fan. The filter will probably be rated under 200cfm anyway.

As far as grow plans go, I can fit two 5 gallon buckets in the flower chamber, so I can do two bushes lst'd or I can scrog or whatever, haven't really decided on that. I plan on getting Hashberry and Sadhu from Mandala. One strain to get me flying and one to knock me the hell out I'm also considering doing a sog setup using 2 liter bottles. That's still TBD, but the nice thing is that I have options.

Yep, you're wide open for grow styles.

I obviously have a long way to go with things. I have the back wall off, but that's good to go, just need to put some holes in it and slap it on there. I'm at a bit of a loss as far as closing up the front of it. I'm considering just weatherstripping all of the plywood on the front facade and then latching on a piece of 3/4 ply with some sort of latch system (hard to describe, but it makes sense in my head). I do NOT want to mess with doors and hinges - it's all a major pita to try to light proof.

I like the idea of weatherstripping the facade. Worked much better for me the second time around. Stripping the doors left too many leaks, had to rip it off and start over. You really don't have as far to go as it might look. The only slightly tricky thing you have is air flow. I have a similar setup to yours with multiple chambers and one exhaust fan. I would be more than happy to share my thoughts about air flow if you wish. Just let me know.

Anyways, just looking for some feedback on my ideas, all are welcome to opine. Hopefully within the next 6-12 months I'll be posting some frosty bud pics on this here thread

"...all are welcome to opine." I'm glad you said that, CM. A peep just told me to pipe down and read only. Maybe he'll get the message.

 

[CarlMoss]

@DB

Thanks for the comments. As for the intakes, I'm aware of the rule of thumb about having 2x the intake diameter. The fan I'm planning on getting uses 4" ducting, which is why I was planning on using 4 separate 2" intakes in the mother room, and then 4 separate 2" pipes leading from the mother room to the flower room. Is this not correct?

I have toyed with the idea of getting the htgsupply light, but I can get the sun system 150 for just 10 bucks more and don't have to have it shipped. I'm lucky in that I have about 4 hydro stores within an hours drive and one of them has better prices than most online vendors I've surfed through. For example, I can get that Sunleaves Windtunnel for just over $100, which is stupid cheap.

As for the cab size and fan size: Having the option to upgrade in the future is something I'm keeping with this build. I've done two "proper" grows and because I used a 70 watt for one and 250 watt for the second, I ended up building two separate cabs. That's something I want to avoid if I upgrade in the future. The speed controller was something I actually forgot to mention in my first post. I do tentatively plan on getting one so I can really dial things in, so that should be a help.

That's a good idea about keeping the back off until everything is in there, doing that will also make it easier to drill the holes. Luckily the back piece is just 1/4" plywood so that should be easy to drill through. I will definitely take that advice....And to your final point, I don't want to get in the middle of anything, but speaking for just myself, I always welcome ideas and comments and appreciate your input.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

CM, you're exactly right. I edited the earlier post about intake size.

Sounds like a good setup. I tried an older cab with similar air flow. I ended up with higher than normal temps in flower but my fan is only half the size of yours. Good luck with the build and your grows. Look forward to the pics.

 

[sito007]

ok update my grow friends,lol
my friend just added an LED PANEL he bought cheap from china. its all red 650 nm, hopes this helps improve with the last stage of budding.what ya think?