12/1 lighting--Any truth or banana in the tail pipe?

[CocoNut 420]

More light ime = more bud but with a time penalty.

10/14 or 13/11 offers faster into full flowering mode therfore quicker.

 

[RequiredUsername]

Yes definitely very interesting. To try
Could we consider 12-1 for autoflower?

If you grow garbage, hemp-polypoly-hybrids... does it really matter? Will you even be able to tell a difference? I dont think so. If you cant tell good weed from hempy-junk, I would not be confident you can tell the difference in 12-1 lighting and the zombie grower light schedules. This is not some personal attack either. You're just another victim of cannabis disinformation, created by people that seek to exploit you. But a little light leaked in, and you found 12-1. That's a start... but dont think it ends there. The seeds you are growing are just as bullshit as the light schedules you used to believe in. There is no special cannabis botany. There is only botany. You want to learn how to grow plants, study horticulture, not some corporate shill on youtube wearing a high times hat promoting polyhybrid inbred selfed feminized GMO seeds with their genetic marker. They even make fake seeds now through tissue culture with an optional fake shell.

Fuck all those GMO seeds.

Give me mother nature dude. Just the same as our relationship with this plant has been for hundreds of thousands of years. I dont eat GMO foods, why would I smoke it?

 

[Asentrouw]

If you grow garbage, hemp-polypoly-hybrids... does it really matter? Will you even be able to tell a difference? I dont think so. If you cant tell good weed from hempy-junk, I would not be confident you can tell the difference in 12-1 lighting and the zombie grower light schedules. This is not some personal attack either. You're just another victim of cannabis disinformation, created by people that seek to exploit you. But a little light leaked in, and you found 12-1.

It does matter because less light usually equals less growth and less yield. So unless you are growing equatorial longflowering NLD sativa's it matters.

That's why in horticulture greenhouses are added extra lights here in the north, to increase the light hours in winter, to still have a descent harvest of cucumbers or tomato's.

This also means if you veg with 13 hours (which 12/1 basically is), it takes longer for the plant to develop to the same size then with 16-18 hours light.

So what's the use of 12/1 then? You don't spare energy as vegging just takes longer to get to the same size?

Or when you just reduce yields with non-photoperiod autoflowers due to a lower ammount of light?

Ofcourse 12/1 works, I just don't see the use for it, as it doesn't provide much advantage to the traditional methods.

If nature is your guide - a philosophy I can support - then 12/1 also doesn't make sense. No country in the world it gets 1 hour sunny in the middle of the night. Nothing natural about it...

 

[RequiredUsername]

You dont realize how boring this subject is to me but I'll briefly answer anyway. Nature... Just like in the picture I provided has intense light for about 8 hours. Adding an hour of light in the dark period is called "photoperiodic control" this is not nature, but a technique to keep plants in veg. That's artificial, not natural. Generally, nature gives plants in good situations 8 hours of intense light. The plant has spent millions of years being in harmony with this. Now you want to use 2 suns out of pure greed. A lot of people tear leaves off the plant out of greed too. Like rats clawing at it. Thinking that removing the stored energy in that leaf results in more bud. That makes a lot of sense. The plant puts effort and energy into making that leaf as storage for energy that it uses up to make flowers. It's a known fact that marijuana grown with 12-1 in veg and 8 -16 for Sativas, 6-18 for indicas yield more and are more resinous. The plants are happier, healthier. They are getting what they are used getting to for millions of years. Only in seedling stage would I use 16 hours of light. Any greenhouse that is using 12-1, 8-16 is going to stay in business while everyone else who traded horticultural science for a belief system loses their ass on electricity, fertilizers, more water is evaporating into the air, air conditioning, pest control etc. I see where people think more light is better but it's a misconception that cannabis like light.

Cannabis loves the DARKNESS
It only needs the light to survive. Just like you going to work, the plant is working in the light in the sun, but it wants to tank up, then relax and chill...not work all day. Imagine you have to work 16 hours a day. Would you be giving your best? Not at all bro. Stand under a high intensity light for 24 hours and see how you feel.

Here is the thing. Under 8 hours of intense light, the plant is full, it's done. Photosynthesis stops even if the light is still there, the plant goes into photoperiodic protection. C02 is no longer being converted.

If you got some plants on 16 hours of light, use your damn eyes and look at it.

When the light comes on its leaves are held up ready for light. At hour 13,14 some plants will visibly droop, not all. Their branches are gummy flexible, leaves hanging down a little, its passed out doing nothing. What is the point of blasting it with light when it's doing nothing? It's a waste of energy and resources. Some plants dont droop, but it doesnt mean photoprotection has not taken place. Test it. See if there is any photosynthesis goin on at hour 14. If you got the proper amount of light, at hour 14 your plant is snoozing and you are pounding it with light for no reason.

What kind of genetics are you people looking at anyway? Dutch treat? Inbred Poly-poly-hybrids chemically induced to hermaphroditism to make feminized seeds?

(Just take a second to look at that description again... does that seem like high quality to you?)

Anybody growing that junk has nothing relevant to say about results with actual marijuanna plants producing sensi. Nothing. They can talk GMO cannabis with other zombie growers, that's it.

 

[Asentrouw]

Generally, nature gives plants in good situations 8 hours of intense light. The plant has spent millions of years being in harmony with this. Now you want to use 2 suns out of pure greed.

Nonsense, as you cannot compare the two. Even on a clouded day the sun provides much more light intensity then most artificial lights. Depending on the season and location plants get more then 8 hours light of different intensities.

If you really want to grow in "natural harmony" then just don't use any artificial lights at all.

It's a known fact that marijuana grown with 12-1 in veg and 8 -16 for Sativas, 6-18 for indicas yield more and are more resinous. The plants are happier, healthier.

Known by whom? Can you provide any evidence to support this claim?

From personal observation 12/1 leads to pro-longed veg and pretty much the same yield after flowering as to expect for a certain strain. But this is by no means a scientific observation ofcourse.

It's an assumption you make, but provide no prove for it.

Only in seedling stage would I use 16 hours of light. Any greenhouse that is using 12-1, 8-16 is going to stay in business while everyone else who traded horticultural science for a belief system loses their ass on electricity, fertilizers, more water is evaporating into the air, air conditioning, pest control etc.

Farmers here are among the most efficient in the world. They are subject to all kind of regulations and need to make profit, so always try to find the best energy versus yield ratio. They would not use the extra lightning if this was not necesarry, as it cost them profits.

These are not growing cannabis ofcourse. But it does point out that more light, usually means more yield with most plants.

I see where people think more light is better but it's a misconception that cannabis like light.

Cannabis loves the DARKNESS

Try growing a cannabis plant without light then.

It only needs the light to survive. Just like you going to work, the plant is working in the light in the sun, but it wants to tank up, then relax and chill...not work all day. Imagine you have to work 16 hours a day. Would you be giving your best? Not at all bro. Stand under a high intensity light for 24 hours and see how you feel.

I agree that it is probably better to have a dark period. But I doubt it matters for the plant if its a full 11 hours or 6 hours during veg.

The comparison makes as much sense as to say "go stand with bare feets in wet soil for 24h and see how you feel".

You could just aswell ask how you would like it if you sleep and they wake you up every time in the middle of the night for one hour. You probably wouldn't like that either and get stressed.

Partly I agree with you its better to have a dark period, but without any science to back it up it doesn't mean much.

Many cash croppers use 24h of light in veg and they also seem to have good results.

So I'm open for any evidence behind those claims. For me personally its not about being "in harmony with nature", but about efficiency: how to get the best yield/quality with the least energy input.

Test it. See if there is any photosynthesis goin on at hour 14.

I'm by no means a scientist or elite grower. I can only talk from my own observations.

In regard of 12/1 what I tried many times, it always seem to slow down the veg period.

Outside that I don't see much difference in the plants between the other light schedules; they look happy and healthy anyhow.

So that's why I don't see use for it anymore. It just makes the grow take longer, which summs up to the same energy costs. It doesn't make sense to me.

To a lot of other people it doesn't seem to make much sense either, else any cash cropper would use 12/1.

The traditional light schedules are probably used because they are the most effective, as they are growing pot indoors for decades now. So I guess people before us would have figured it out already if 12/1 would lead to monsteryields at less costs. But this doesn't seem to be the case.

What kind of genetics are you people looking at anyway? Dutch treat? Inbred Poly-poly-hybrids chemically induced to hermaphroditism to make feminized seeds?
(Just take a second to look at that description again... does that seem like high quality to you?)

I probably don't have acces to the elite genetics you are growing, but I don't like to limit myself if it comes to genetics.

Most fun I get on trying as much different things as possible: (poly)hybrids, oldschool Dutch strains, unworked landraces, equatorial sativa's, indica's and anything in between. Feminized and regular - it doesn't matter to me.

I share your dislike for autoflowers, but even those have their place for those who like it.

But all those strains have basically the same outcome in those light schedules.

The only thing I noticed with some genetics under 12/1, is that they get "confused" as they get extreme pre-flowering. Which indicates stress to a amateur hobbygrower like me. But most take it as any other light schedule...

To be clear: not trying to be a smart ass, just sharing my own experiences for those who want to listen.

 

[Balto]

Sembra interessante, risparmiare sulla corrente non mi dispiacerebbe, resto in attesa di notizie

 

[Cannabis Critic]

Daily light integrals (DLI) are important.

 

[RequiredUsername]

All the proof is in the flower industry. Like I said, there is no cannabis botany, no cannabis horticulture. It's just botany. Just horticulture. Sorry it cant be put any clearer.

 

[kendermag]

I understand that this photoperiod can be useful to someone who only wants to maintain mother plants, minimizing growth, and saving light, fertilizers... and pruning work.

An hour of light in the middle of the night phase can also help prevent plants from flowering outdoors.

However, in the past, when I have wanted to keep mothers indoors with minimal effort and cost, I have reduced the light power... it is surprising how healthy they can be kept with very little power at 18/6.

And in flowering, I only see it logical to go below 12 hours of light for those who put speed over quantity, or for reasons of space (reduce stretching). If we are only guided by the cost/production ratio, I think 12/12 is the best.

 

[Asentrouw]

All the proof is in the flower industry. Like I said, there is no cannabis botany, no cannabis horticulture. It's just botany. Just horticulture. Sorry it cant be put any clearer. View attachment 19093257

Ok, but that picture can just as well represent 16/8 or 18/6.

What you basically do with 12/1 is cutting away over a third of the day and add one hour in the middle of the night.

Another thing you leave out of consideration is the intensity of the light. Sunlight is much more intense then artificial lights, so you probably need more hours to achieve the same photosynthesis.

If 12/1 would make such a difference, everybody would use this light schedule by now. After decades of growing cannabis indoors they'll figured it out by now no matter what genetics - especially the professional growers.

Long story short: I tried it and it didn't work for me due to pro-longed vegging. So it has no use for me, as I need to wait a bit longer while using roughly the same ammount of energy, to get to the same yield.

If it works for you then that's great and you should stick to it. But unless you come with some evidence to substantiate these claims I don't buy into it.

 

[Baba Karuna]

I have used the 13 on 11 off cycle before with the dark cycle being interrupted by 1 hour of light. The plants were very healthy and grew more busy than with traditional 18/6. The only downside was that some of my favorite genetics (like Egyptian Sinai) tended to flower instead of veg (since they are semi auto). To combat this I have raised the day length to 16.5 hrs. My cycle is 5.5hr on with 2.5hr sleep breaks. The plants stay in veg, growing bushy and healthy while cutting down on electricity. Also, I began this whole process after studying how much light plants can photosynthesize. I learned that they cannot digest more than a certain amount of light and need little “naps” to utilize the light to the fullest extent. It has been a game changer for me as the plants grow quite fast with this regime. Added bonus is the lower electric bill. If it weren’t for the semi auto genetics (which can be sensitive around 15hrs and below) I would probably cut it down even lower.

🪷Om Namah Shivaya🪷

 

[RequiredUsername]

I have used the 13 on 11 off cycle before with the dark cycle being interrupted by 1 hour of light. The plants were very healthy and grew more busy than with traditional 18/6. The only downside was that some of my favorite genetics (like Egyptian Sinai) tended to flower instead of veg (since they are semi auto). To combat this I have raised the day length to 16.5 hrs. My cycle is 5.5hr on with 2.5hr sleep breaks. The plants stay in veg, growing bushy and healthy while cutting down on electricity. Also, I began this whole process after studying how much light plants can photosynthesize. I learned that they cannot digest more than a certain amount of light and need little “naps” to utilize the light to the fullest extent. It has been a game changer for me as the plants grow quite fast with this regime. Added bonus is the lower electric bill. If it weren’t for the semi auto genetics (which can be sensitive around 15hrs and below) I would probably cut it down even lower.

🪷Om Namah Shivaya🪷

I am very proud of you for trying different light schedules, and looking at your plants. Direct observation is important.

You are right, when they get enough light and then are put to sleep they will grow differently. You get wider compact plants. But also they are more resinous, happy. I'd be interested in reading a write up about what your doing and what your observations are.

" I learned that they cannot digest more than a certain amount of light and need little “naps” to utilize the light to the fullest extent. It has been a game changer for me as the plants grow quite fast with this regime. Added bonus is the lower electric bill."

Yep! As you can see people haven't got that far yet in their horticulture studies. They dont understand that the plant shuts down after filling up on light. It's called "photoprotection". I hope the others to catch up to you. They keep asking me for proof, which is funny because all of this is fact and evidence based, not new at all, and is available. Im not here to spoon feed babies. Just put photoprotection in a search, or open a biology book. Time to grow up. It's not necessary for me to provide evidence over and over every time someone wants to learn gardening.

One day they may even read about responses of plants to high light stress and understand that their greed is stressful and damaging for the plant, which rewards them appropriately.

Nobody seems to get to second level thinking on this anyway.

Hari Om tat Sat

 

[Asentrouw]

Well, all the positive feedbacks here in this threat, shows it works for quite some people. I still doubt its the "Holy Grail" schedule, but I'll stop trying to be a smart ass.

I think the particular set up also has a lot to do with it. Maybe the shitty isolation of the growroom caused a few degrees difference in temps with lights down, slowing down growth and causing pro-longing veg time. Might be the low wattage/light intensity of the lamps or the particular genetics. There are many factors contributing to a grow and its endresults. What works for one set up, doesn't automatically work for another.

I'm no scientist, nor do I claim to be one. But all these theories seem to have a fair ammount of "bro-science" to it. Most of it is personal observation or anecdotes (also from my side).

I'd really like to see a serious investigation for 12/1 cannabis growing in a controlled setting ("just horticulture" doesn't exist, as it is quite diverse and different by plantspecies). You'd think with the legalisation and commercialization of marihuana this would come available (maybe it already is, I don't know).

Maybe I'll give it another go sometime. For each his own...

 

[RequiredUsername]

Well, all the positive feedbacks here in this threat, shows it works for quite some people. I still doubt its the "Holy Grail" schedule, but I'll stop trying to be a smart ass.

I think the particular set up also has a lot to do with it. Maybe the shitty isolation of the growroom caused a few degrees difference in temps with lights down, slowing down growth and causing pro-longing veg time. Might be the low wattage/light intensity of the lamps or the particular genetics. There are many factors contributing to a grow and its endresults. What works for one set up, doesn't automatically work for another.

I'm no scientist, nor do I claim to be one. But all these theories seem to have a fair ammount of "bro-science" to it. Most of it is personal observation or anecdotes (also from my side).

I'd really like to see a serious investigation for 12/1 cannabis growing in a controlled setting ("just horticulture" doesn't exist, as it is quite diverse and different by plantspecies). You'd think with the legalisation and commercialization of marihuana this would come available (maybe it already is, I don't know).

Maybe I'll give it another go sometime. For each his own...

If you are ready for the science of photoperiodism is started with Garner and Allard in 1920. That's your starting point. Nice chapter on it in Greenhouse Operation and Management by Nelson. You are about 100 years behind us.

 

[Asentrouw]

You must be some real cannabis guru miracle grower with such self-righteous remarks.

I really think more growers looked into it over the years and the main light schedules are the product of practical experiences over these years.

Could be I missed it in regard of all the proffessionals using 12/1, because I'm just a mere simple amateur hobbyist growing meds for personal use.

But I like to read and am always open to broaden my mind, so I will dig a bit more into Garner, Allard & co. No worries.

 

[RequiredUsername]

You must be some real cannabis guru miracle grower with such self-righteous remarks.

I really think more growers looked into it over the years and the main light schedules are the product of practical experiences over these years.

Could be I missed it in regard of all the proffessionals using 12/1, because I'm just a mere simple amateur hobbyist growing meds for personal use.

But I like to read and am always open to broaden my mind, so I will dig a bit more into Garner, Allard & co. No worries.

Well, it's a mistake in thought to think that the masses, the crowd, are worthy to be followed. Blind leading the blind, everyone falls in the ditch.

It's not your fault you don't know. Unfortunately there are people out there looking to exploit your love of cannabis. Imagine that huh? The petroleum industry is working on new cannabis related products to sell you that you dont need. Somone to promise results if you use these 5 bottles of goo on bullshit or hype. Lights needs to be replaced faster, that's money too. Someone wants you to spend more on electricity than you need. More electricity more heat more ac more water evaporating, bugs. Now you need a pest control product because the genetics are so week the plant has no resistance to anything. In the end you have mediocre weed and are constantly buying seeds just like they want you to. Enslaved. It's all the same movement against you. Against all that, how would you know?

There is no money in you knowing the right way. The right way is cheaper, more ecologically friendly and you get the best bud.

Yet the right way is the open secret.

You can see why they invest so hard to keep this information from you. One thing leads to another, and you see the ugliness behind the curtain. The ugly truth. The exploitation. They see you all as cattle bro.

 

[CocoNut 420]

I veg with 12-12 and flower with 12-12 or 11-13, compared to typical hrs its different I wouldn't say it's better, I suppose it depends on your idea of better?
Shorter flowering hrs gives faster flowering and longer hrs gives heavier crops.

 

[RequiredUsername]

I veg with 12-12 and flower with 12-12 or 11-13, compared to typical hrs its different I wouldn't say it's better, I suppose it depends on your idea of better?
Shorter flowering hrs gives faster flowering and longer hrs gives heavier crops.

What is photoprotection in plants?

 

[Asentrouw]

You can see why they invest so hard to keep this information from you. One thing leads to another, and you see the ugliness behind the curtain. The ugly truth. The exploitation. They see you all as cattle bro.

Here we can agree. Everything that's commercial is corrupted and money driven. No different in the "canna scene".

That's why I don't need all those overpriced flashy supernutes and ferts with colourfull labels. I re-use my soil and only amment it with homemade wormcompost, cheap NPK meals and some molasses based liquid ferts if needed. Works like a charm, costs next to nothing.

But its not "they" who convinced me, its my own experiences with 12/1.

These lightschemes are used by cash croppers stashing the coffeeshops for decades now. If they run huge growing operations - illegal or legal like Bedrocan - they probably found out by now which lightschemes are the most efficient. Simple matter of profit maximalisation for those guys.

So I don't need to re-invent the wheel. As far as I know 12/1 is the exception rather then the rule, so I believe there is some reasoning and logic behind that.

This linked to my own personal experience - and those of some others in this thread - with slower growth in veg when running 12/1, is why I don't use it anymore. That's just my personal conclusion for my set up, after running several grows 12/1. I'm no scientist,so don't know the exact reasons behind it - I can just guess (temps, light intensity, energy input, reduced light hours, etc.).

So for me there is no "right way". Nothing to do with "greed" or me being a "victim of marketing". I just don't see why I should implement it, if in the end the same light hour input leads to a longer grow for the same yield. I can also just skip the veg all together by taking a sativa-dominant strain going straight 12/12. More then one road leads to Rome...

As I say: to each his own. Just don't act like you are the only one with the holy grail knowledge of growing and the whole world is behind on you. Each grower does what works best for his settings and needs. I'll be the last to be the judge of that.

 

[CocoNut 420]

What is photoprotection in plants?

Hey bud, tbh idk im a basic grower keeping it simple, I did google the subject though to check it out.

It makes sense that plants could protect themselves?
I only read the short google version and I was thinking why does bleaching occur if plants have the ability to switch off?