10 Week Original Haze

[Ravel]

Would it be possible to breed a short flowering unhybridized haze? If you started with a 24 week original haze or OTH and selected enough individuals over the course of enough generations wouldn't you eventually find some 10 or 12 week plants?

And if so, why has nobody done it yet?

Edit: Sorry, I meant hybridized with an indica

 

[exoticrobotic]

Happy new year Ravel.

Haze is a hybrid of different sativas and it generally takes 14 weeks or more to flower, some may take a lot longer.

It's generally the longer flowering hazes that people report as having the special unique highs not found in other shorter flowering strains.

As soon as you find such a special plant, most people want to get the yield up and the flowering time down so they can experience much more soaring uniqueness in much less time.

Good luck trying The Canna industry and its breeders have been trying to do exactly what you describe for many many decades. Some efforts have worked well like C99, others not so well but in my opinion these special traits seen in long flowering sativas are special because they come from presently unknown cannabinoids that take a lot longer time to form.

You can get two harvests done in the time it takes for a haze to finish but is the magic there?

And if so, why has nobody done it yet?

To get a 24 week flowering plant down to 10/12 week you would end up with a totally different plant at the end.

I reckon selecting for shorter flowering times would remove these long time needed cannabinoids from the mix anyway, but to try, maybe it would take 10 generations to accomplish....

That's 5 to 10 years of hard work with no guarantee of success along the way.

Might aswell accept the long long flowering times imo Nature has given us a gift, why should we think to change it?

 

[Genghis Kush.]

its more about numbers than years.
you need thousands of plants to choose from to find the genetic outliers that are earlier flowering and breed those until you stabilize the flowering times.
the flowering times are adaptions to the environment. Areas with long dry seasons have longer flowering varieties.
not sure about cannibinoid development time .

 

[Ravel]

Happy new year Ravel.

Haze is a hybrid of different sativas and it generally takes 14 weeks or more to flower, some may take a lot longer.

It's generally the longer flowering hazes that people report as having the special unique highs not found in other shorter flowering strains.

As soon as you find such a special plant, most people want to get the yield up and the flowering time down so they can experience much more soaring uniqueness in much less time.

Good luck trying The Canna industry and its breeders have been trying to do exactly what you describe for many many decades. Some efforts have worked well like C99, others not so well but in my opinion these special traits seen in long flowering sativas are special because they come from presently unknown cannabinoids that take a lot longer time to form.

You can get two harvests done in the time it takes for a haze to finish but is the magic there?



To get a 24 week flowering plant down to 10/12 week you would end up with a totally different plant at the end.

I reckon selecting for shorter flowering times would remove these long time needed cannabinoids from the mix anyway, but to try, maybe it would take 10 generations to accomplish....

That's 5 to 10 years of hard work with no guarantee of success along the way.

Might aswell accept the long long flowering times imo Nature has given us a gift, why should we think to change it?

Very interesting, thank you.

It's always been a question of mine, why do people keep introducing indica genetics when they could just try to bring down flowering times in pure sativas. I know it's extremely hard to do, but it seems like the results would be worth the effort.

 

[Wolverine97]

It would no longer be a "Haze", so no.

 

[Lester Beans]

If it could be done, it would already be done.

You can find some 14-15 week plants but shorter than that you will need to add indica.

Please, give it a try though. A 10 week Haze would be incredible.

 

[nepalnt21]

with my limited understanding of breeding... my guess is that the genes/ traits for that would already have to exist, or otherwise a new genetic mutation or a unique combination of genes would have to pop up... otherwise it seems you'd be trying to make lemonade with turnips.

i'd love to be wrong and learn something new

It would no longer be a "Haze", so no.

if it is from the haze population and only the haze population, how could it not still be haze?

 

[Genghis Kush.]

If it could be done, it would already be done.

You can find some 14-15 week plants but shorter than that you will need to add indica.

Please, give it a try though. A 10 week Haze would be incredible.

if It can be done , it Will be done when people have the chance to grow out thousands of haze plants at a time. Until then we do not know what is in the gene pool. if you can find a real 14 week haze plant in a ten pack then there has to be genetic freaks that can be shorter and found In a field of thousands of plants And years of searching.
there would be a spectrum of flowering times from pretty short to never really finishing .



it’s the cannibinoid development time that matters most . A 10 week may not get you high in the same kind of way.

 

[Wolverine97]

with my limited understanding of breeding... my guess is that the genes/ traits for that would already have to exist, or otherwise a new genetic mutation or a unique combination of genes would have to pop up... otherwise it seems you'd be trying to make lemonade with turnips.

i'd love to be wrong and learn something new


if it is from the haze population and only the haze population, how could it not still be haze?

What created "Haze"? For argument sake, let's say it is the Mex/Colombian/Thai Haze. So you start working through the population. The Mexican genetics are naturally going to finish flowering earlier than the Thai or Colombian. So by default, breeding it towards shorter flower cycle will just be making a watered down version of the Mexican plant that went into those Haze seeds to begin with.

 

[nepalnt21]

@Wolverine97

(excuse the novice questions, here to learn) does that mean the traits come in suites?

as in... could i not isolate the shorter flowering time and keep other traits from the haze line?

ignoring the concept of longer flowering times maybe allowing for the development of special cannabinoids or something, could we not have a mexican flowering time with a thai high?

 

[El Timbo]

Would it be possible to breed a short flowering unhybridized haze? If you started with a 24 week original haze or OTH and selected enough individuals over the course of enough generations wouldn't you eventually find some 10 or 12 week plants?

And if so, why has nobody done it yet?

Edit: Sorry, I meant hybridized with an indica

You're asking why no one has ever crossed haze with an indica?

 

[Ravel]

You're asking why no one has ever crossed haze with an indica?

No, I'm saying why do people cross hazes with indicas or hybrids when you could also just select for very short flowering. Shorter flowering time with no added indica.

 

[El Timbo]

No, I'm saying why do people cross hazes with indicas or hybrids when you could also just select for very short flowering. Shorter flowering time with no added indica.

ah ok - so maybe you need to edit your edit to unhybridized with an indica?

 

[Ravel]

ah ok - so maybe you need to edit your edit to unhybridized with an indica?

The edit was referring to the sentence: "Would it be possible to breed a short flowering unhybridized haze?"

The reason for the edit was that haze itself is a hybrid of different sativa landraces and could also be hybridized with other 100 percent sativas. So I wanted to be clear I was referring to a hybrid with indicas, not with other sativas.

 

[Taima-da]

Inbreeding depression is already prevalent in the haze population. Any multi generation search within haze would compound that issue, leading to problems. That is why people are outcrossing

 

[Popey]

it’s the cannibinoid development time that matters most . A 10 week may not get you high in the same kind of way.

I used to have a theory that the special Haze high is that it's a long-flowering plant, some of the resin glands are already overripe (amber), and the plant is sprouting new pistils and transparent trichomes. And it's this mix of trichomes in different stages of development that causes this special high. But I guess that wasn't a very smart theory xD

 

[Ravel]

Inbreeding depression is already prevalent in the haze population. Any multi generation search within haze would compound that issue, leading to problems. That is why people are outcrossing

Ahh thank you. That makes sense.

 

[nepalnt21]

is it that inbred?

and which haze line are we talking?

there are already a few different haze lines... and i mean pure, original haze:

tom hill's positronic haze from the 90s, stuff sam gave out later like the todd mccormick population, etc. etc.

and there is still a variety to be found... purple haze, acid phenos, etc.

i'm honestly asking in good faith, is it really super inbred?

one story says it's a polyhybrid from all over the tropics, another story says it's all colombian (different lines, including wacky weed etc.), and a third says it's colombian/ thai... and it appears that each different seedline of haze seems to have been taken in different directions, whether by chance or selection... i've seen guys post ones with super thin needly leaflet types and a little bit wider (still sativa leaves) fingered phenos... but to reiterate, i know almost jack squat about breeding.

 

[Taima-da]

You are right,
of course.
So working lines together should work to a point.
It has been noted however, by people better versed than me, that each successive generation loses some oomph, and that the older lines are the better, for at least most (Sam's) of the lines out there.
Every one on one pairing is effectively a bottle neck through which population diversity (wherein lies population resilience and vigor) is diminished.
If they all share common ancestry then it's is not long until negative traits are stacked.

But bringing separate lines together should definitely be encouraged.
You could potentially bring out novel or lost phenos though recombination

 

[Osama Bong Loadin']

Very interesting, thank you.

It's always been a question of mine, why do people keep introducing indica genetics when they could just try to bring down flowering times in pure sativas. I know it's extremely hard to do, but it seems like the results would be worth the effort.

DNA did that by introducing a fast flowering Mexican sativa in the Cannalope Haze cross. And Ace uses fast sativas to bring down flowering time.