10 Common Indicators for Highway Drug Interdiction

[Julian]

I said that on my way to Chicago, I don't see drug interdictions.

Unless there and present, how do you know?

You've never seen any vehicles pulled over?
You've never seen evidence of any searches?
You've never seen a k9 unit?

To Chicago from Indy? (Isn't most of that skyway anyway?)

You then verified that. I also then mentioned that traveling on a highway to Chicago to pick up is not without risk. The risk may not be drug interdiction squads, but a risk of being assaulted by police.

Illinois or Indiana State Police are going to assault you on the interstate?.....

I'll welcome you to do your own homework, and research:

Illinois state police-interstate/highway drug interdiction
Indiana state police-interstate/highway drug interdiction
Metropolitan Enforcement Group (MEG-many different regional branches)

and no drug interdiction squads.

You know what I've never seen?

A pony. ......I'm certain though they exist.

I'm not saying they don't exist, it seems they are everywhere in the states you guys speak of

Your welcome to research.

(insert state/region) interstate drug interdiction

As above.....you seem to be under the impression they carry a billboard with them......(sometimes, some places, they are indeed fully marked as such.....most of the time, not.....just "another cop"....(until you notice that "trooper" is only wearing jeans and nikes and Busts out a CT-30 kit

 

[Julian]

This is funny....

He is directly behind me. He did not ask for anything, license or papers

I got stopped westbound in Oklahoma once late night on a weekend....

Same deal....."drinking tonight"?....."Nope, haven't in years, on my way to XX"....."really?....how long you been driving"....."xx hours, trying to make up some time"....."wow.....have a good one"....

(As I was holding license, insurance and registration out the whole time ........)

Note: Seemed like they were doing a major weekend DUI push.....that was their only interest......I was filling up at a gas station close to a huge, huge night spot and pulled right on where they were swarming everywhere.....

Least I didn't have to explain and have him disarm me (had concealed weapon, with permit)

 

[tetragrammaton]

Dude, you are really offending me. You are not understanding what I am saying, and you are patronizing me.

I have read this thread fully. I acknowledge we are speaking about different things, and different states.

You guys have specifically stated your experiences where you've personally witnessed these drug interdiction squads, that are set up over miles. Where you have literally seen people getting pulled over one after another, and searched.

I have not travelled through those states, but in the states that I've travelled through, I have not encountered any such thing. I acknowledge that they exist. I am not doubting they do. I just personally haven't experienced it. That's all.

I'm not contradicting anything you say, so you really need to relax. There's no reason to get sarcastic with your fucking Pony comment.

And you totally misinterpreted my comment about being assaulted.

I'll break it down for you.

In MY PERSONAL experiences, there is more of a risk getting harassed by cops who see you are an out of towner or out of stater, in a drug neighborhood, than the actual drive to and from. I never claimed State Police or any cop on a highway is going to pull you over and assault you. And I am specifically speaking about Chicago. Nothing else, although I'm sure crooked cops are everywhere. I've been a passenger in a car in Indianapolis where the driver met up with a fucking cop who was driving around a local heroin dealer, we followed the car to an apartment complex, and my friend made the transaction. The past year, Indianapolis let go of a shit load of corrupt officers who are selling drugs and/or providing protection for the spots.

And yes Julian, in the states that I have experience with, even if they are unmarked, you can tell by the plates, model of car, etc... if they are undercover.

I am not under any impression. You are. You are under the impression that I am speaking out of my ass. No, I am speaking of what I have direct experience with, just as you are.
Sorry they don't match up.

 

[iSMOKE.KUSH]

And yes Julian, in the states that I have experience with, even if they are unmarked, you can tell by the plates, model of car, etc... if they are undercover.

just one thing. i've seen cops in eastern states driving around in fucking broken down looking mountaineers usually narcotics officers don't even drive unmarked cars. they drive w.e they damn well want to. or can.

i didn't mean to be patronizing to anyone btw. just stating. there ARE drug interdiction teams in every single state. so the states you have experience in you obviously don't have enough experience in because i've seen drug interdiction teams in the midwest for sure.

 

[iSMOKE.KUSH]

I'm not saying they don't exist, it seems they are everywhere in the states you guys speak of, but what you are saying, and what I am saying go hand in hand.

they are EVERYWHERE and NOWHERE at the same time. that is the whole point of drug interdiction units. they don't want to let the "bad guys" know where they are. just because you don't seem them doesn't mean they aren't there. they are in every state. spend some more time on the interstate you'll seem them.

as for what part of indiana i drive through. i'm talking about 80.

 

[tetragrammaton]

Right man, I never claimed that they don't exist in the midwest, I just personally haven't experienced them.

I think by stating that multiple times, makes it clear I don't have as much experience as you guys.

I'm also not going around with LBs in my car, so these interdictions are really little concern to me. Thanks to information like this thread has, I feel safe driving with an amount that can be stored on my person, and when it's a large amount, I do not need to drive to get it, so I take no risk there.

The fact is, I've travelled to the east coast every summer and christmas, which I guess are popular travel times, so I guess I blend in. I've never seen any Drug Checkpoint, or OBVIOUS drug interdiction squad. I never said they aren't there or don't exist, I just haven't seen them, and they haven't fucked with me.

That's all. I have no issue with any of you guys, we just had a misunderstanding.

Peace.

EDIT: When I speak of traveling in Indiana, I am only speaking about an hour drive on 70, in order to reach Indianapolis. So, while it's not as big of a risk as driving cross country, it STILL IS a risk if you're carrying weight. So knowing how to handle yourself is important to everyone, as there is valuable information here that can apply to any traffic stop.

 

[iSMOKE.KUSH]

The fact is, I've travelled to the east coast every summer and christmas, which I guess are popular travel times, so I guess I blend in. I've never seen any Drug Checkpoint, or OBVIOUS drug interdiction squad. I never said they aren't there or don't exist, I just haven't seen them, and they haven't fucked with me.

just fyi...read on drug checkpoint so you know..i posted this earlier in the thread. no such thing as a drug checkpoint...knowledge is power.

"another fucked up thing i saw one time in nebraska.

a bunch of signs saying "drug check point 1 mile" with cops everywhere on the side of the road. there was an exit in a half a mile.

it is illegal for cops to set up any sort of road block on an interstate.

what they were looking for:

idiots trying to toss shit.
people looking nervous and driving erratically not knowing what to do
people getting off the next bumblefuck nebraska exit with no gas station at it for no reason

i decided to drive through because i knew what was up. needless to say. there was a checkpoint on the road off the exit. there ended up being no drug check point and everything was fine. so if you see someone like that, don't freak and just keep driving."

 

[Julian]

So much for reading thread

Btw, haven't mentioned Operation Jetway:
Operation JETWAY-Federal, state and local law enforcement personnel assigned to airport, train, bus, parcel or hotel/motel interdiction units. DEA policy states that this a mandated training program for all DEA Special Agents and Task Force Officers assigned to these types of transportation groups. The proponent for this course is the El Paso Intelligence Center, State and Local Liaison Unit.

Indiana-
Zone _ _ Highway Criminal Interdiction Units

Ohio-
Ohio State Highway Patrol’s Traffic and Drug Interdiction Teams (TDIT)

Pennsylvania-
In April 1986, the Department announced "Operation Whiteline," a program aimed at the interdiction of drug trafficking on state highways.

Btw....
May 7, 2010
Multi-state enforcement initiative “Operation Safety Net” this summer

The Ohio State Highway Patrol will join the New York State Police, Pennsylvania State Police, West Virginia State Police and U.S Border Patrol in a concentrated traffic and criminal patrol operation starting this month and continuing throughout the summer to reduce fatal and injury crashes, while interdicting the criminal element

 

[iSMOKE.KUSH]

May 7, 2010
Multi-state enforcement initiative “Operation Safety Net” this summer

The Ohio State Highway Patrol will join the New York State Police, Pennsylvania State Police, West Virginia State Police and U.S Border Patrol in a concentrated traffic and criminal patrol operation starting this month and continuing throughout the summer to reduce fatal and injury crashes, while interdicting the criminal element

should be a fun summer thanks for the heads up. for real.

 

[Julian]

EDIT: When I speak of traveling in Indiana, I am only speaking about an hour drive on 70,

One of earlier liks, first sentence-Dangling a cigarette out the window of his Indiana State Police cruiser, the trooper squints at the traffic roaring eastbound on Interstate 70

 

[!!!]

In this case, the subject is trying to distance himself from something he wants to hide from you. Keep in mind, this indicator can be a sign of something less sinister than drug trafficking, e.g. the subject might be have a weapon in the car, an open beer, etc..

Wait, so a weapon or an open alcohol bottle is LESS sinister than moving a few zips of bud across the road?

 

[iSMOKE.KUSH]

you should address angles though. really curious about that.

 

[10k]

Gentlemen, I have removed several posts which had messed up this thread and someone will pop in from time to time to see that this thread isn't derailed again.
So please lets not have any further off topic nonsense regarding whatever the squabble was about.

Interesting thread btw, pulling up a chair

 

[Julian]

To summarize thus far:

You have Pipeline/Convoy/Jetway mandatory training for all Federal, State and local participants on task forces.

Optional training for all 50 states, all counties, and cities in US.

Any officer, from any department may undertake such training.

Each state, and in some regions county, and city may be running their own programs, or have officers part of a joint task force.

(Portion of all proceeds seized goes back to case agency, along with funding proportionate with seized product. All agencies above also approach all Air, Rail, Bus, Parcel, Motel/Hotel operations and 20%-25% of seizures are offered to all employees of said operations)

LE Training/procedure includes:
1. Vehicle years and models, physical condition as indicators.
2. Vehicle interior indicators
3. Subject (driver/passenger) indicators.
4. Psychology/Behavioral/Speech indicators during interview
5. Physical indicators

Applying may be reason for initiating stop, or may be due to traffic violation. Most teams will tend to pick and choose targets wisely depending on their expertise.

At time of initial stop, nothing is known. That is learned through observation and interview. (Video above. Interview and observation used to strengthen or weaken initial suspicion)

Interview and observation of behavioral issues, body language, micro expressions, speech patterns and usage, physical reactions to questions and stress levels, and also further observation of vehicle will lead initiating officer to develop plan how to proceed, if at all.

Legal:
Driver is always allowed to leave prior to request for consent. (Unless k9 initiates the stop, or accompanies unit that initiates. There are many cases of k9 units present at stops not doing a free air sniff/walk around but one wouldn't be wise to rely upon it.)

Interdiction Team members will have most likely the kit referenced above. (CT30...density meters, fiberscopes, etc)

In many areas of US, many agencies, from state through county, task force and cities will be present simultaneously, and assist with each others matters, including sharing k9 resources,as illustrated above.

Certain states, such as Arizona have implemented "reasonable articulable suspicion" is required in order to request a consent to search. (This arose from allegations of profiling. They are now required to provide details about any request to consent, and why they requested such. This may very well appear in the 170 page 2 year study linked above which I suggest people review for an accurate picture of the volume of stops and the details regarding those stops.)

One will also note there is no shortage of cases found which will find interdiction units at service locations at certain exits picking and choosing who to approach.

 

[Julian]

Training, as referenced in link above, does include the behavioral variables/differences regarding an "attitude" refusal vs. a "dope" refusal, just as earlier, a certain amount of anxiety/resistance/difficulty/ etc from the "average" person is expected, and a different behavior from the "guilty"...

Example: Someone with nothing to hide may very well resent the stop and the inquiries and the questions in the first place.

Which is it?.....well, that puts their training and observation skills to the test. That's what it's all about. Trying to determine who is telling the truth, and who is lying.

There is no firm answer or action that applies across the board to any given scenario. Each is different.

 

[statusquo]

Mods...lol. Don't know why my post was removed and I don't recall any squabbles really. Just attempts to clear up miscommunications/reading comprehension problems. Anyways I am curious as to what Julian/IsmokeKush would think about the following:
Do you guys think a dog would be able to detect anything that was in air tight mason jars and the outside of the jars have been washed with 99% iso alcohol? I always do this when doing any kind of long drive (everything goes into bags because you need consent to search bags) or mailing.

 

[iSMOKE.KUSH]

dogs technically can't smell through anything. the smell eventually permeates through whatever kind of container it's in. that is why it's important to be diligent when packing a load. vinyl gloves, multiple layers, with washing/switching gloves between each layer. RIGHT before you are about to set off. eventually smell will find w.e little crevice there is between the inside and the outside air of w.e it is in. that's why vacuum sealing is a must. mason jars work well, but are a little bit bulky compared to a vacuum sealed bag put inside turkey bags(cellophane)...if you are mailing i suggest reading the mail interdiction thread. it's in julians pas posts.

have a good one

 

[Julian]

One will find an endless stream of seizures, with them standing in front of sometimes multiple sealed vacuum packages.

How can this be?.....double, triple, even quadruple sealed?.....

Cross contamination (maybe vehicle was used 40 times before with nothing sealed). Maybe ps was kept in console for last 3 years. Maybe seals failed due to various things (inferior equipment, inferior bags, and so on.....)

Permeation is directly related to OTR's. (Oxygen Transmission Rates).

A vacuum sealed package will indeed let air/the scent through the package at various rates, all affected by the big 3 (Heat, Movement, and Time).

Seal a package properly, throw it in front of a dog, and they very well might not smell anything.

10hrs. later, at 90 degrees and bumpy road?, may no longer be the case.

20hrs. later in below freezing temps? May still be. (No one has a firm answer to these.)

One might assume many cases would be matters of cross contamination. Load sitting too long before packed. Load sitting too long after packed. Load might have been fine but vehicle previously contaminated. Load fine but people who packed then same clothes and un rinsed (hands and arms) packing it.

The difference in vacuum sealers btw is in the amount of vacuum/pressure/seals, and in the bags (OTR's, material).

One will also note reviewing seizure photos how many bags shown have obvious broken seals on packages...(double bagged, but first bags seal broken, and so on.....)

(Then you have the issue of where it is packed, as if scent escapes and is trapped in an area, just creates a pocket of scent....)

But, not really applicable to overview, as they have to initiate the stop and develop suspicions before that point anyway. Really, again, no answer which applies to any and every situation.

(I watched once someone go through correct procedure for entire process, (including washing hands and arms down (alcohol scrub), taking shower, clean clothes, and then sitting down, busting up some and rolling a joint, lighting and smoking said joint, and getting into vehicle while still smoking .....(of course, after breaking that up with hands, then having those hands on door exterior, dash interior, and so on.....)

Packing is probably flawed in 98% of all cases...because there is no reason a properly packed and sealed package should be able to be detected. (One will even find this statement made by k9 trainers.....)

 

[Julian]

Florida:
Fifty specially trained troopers designated as felony officers and canine handlers comprise twenty felony teams. Each felony team consists of two troopers and one canine, and is assigned to patrol the interstate system and other major highways throughout the state in order to interdict drug trafficking. Currently, the interdiction program has 31 dogs, 11 fiber optic scopes, and 22 BUSTER drug detection devices.

Utah DPS:
Criminal Interdiction Team Troopers conduct high volume traffic enforcement, supporting the Highway Patrol mission of traffic safety. During these traffic stops, team members apply their specialized training in discovering indicators of criminal activity. When indicators of criminal activity are present, Troopers investigate the indicators until either the suspicious circumstances are alleviated or criminal activity is discovered.


It should also be noted chosen route(s) in relation to source/origin and destination are also considered indicators. (ie: Not taking the straightest and most logical route, especially if route takes one away from specific areas known to be Interdiction "hot".)

Wyoming:
Wyoming Highway Patrol—in partnership with the Wyoming Regional Enforcement Teams. Highway patrol officers engage in drug interdiction efforts as a part of their routine duties on the Wyoming highways and interstates. Four officers are designated HIDTA K-9 units with interdiction responsibilities. The highway patrol through its interdiction efforts targets drug smugglers and transporters responsible for significant loads destined to or through the State of Wyoming.

Colorado:
Colorado State Patrol—through HIDTA, the state patrol initiated an aggressive drug interdiction program by establishing six K-9 teams to enhance their efforts. Interdiction of drug loads utilizing Colorado interstates and highways is the focus.

Also a participant of the Rocky Mountain HIDTA:
U. S. Postal Interdiction Program—the program mission is to identify and arrest drug traffickers using U.S. mail to distribute drugs and receive drug payments. The program consists of HIDTA K-9s. Primary targets are drug distributors who use the U.S. mail to transport drug and money shipments.

Ohio:
Ohio State Highway Patrol Criminal Patrol Unit-17 K9 canines and handlers (Troopers).7 Sergeants (Criminal Patrol Supervisors), 1 Lieutenant. (Link is a OSP PDF and contains full details on unit and cooperating agencies and efforts)


A moment to share a reminder, and the sad truth:It's all about the Money. Most interdiction programs were established to generate revenue. To "make money".

 

[tetragrammaton]

Julian, I'd like to apologize for my behavior last night, whether you care or not.

The information you are sharing is priceless, and can save many. Thank you for that.

Peace.