10 - Agrobar 720s over 6 - 4x8.5 ft rolling benches. F & D FTW

[Crooked8]

When buds shine like that thats the quality for shure....or like you said before 2 me its harvested to early .
Seems that some cultivars you dialed in to perfection this time.
Its always good to lower humidity and temps last few weeks,anyway nice harvest.

You are confusing me with Hammer, i saw that comment. Clear, Cloudy and amber trichome heads all glisten. I do think other things in your product indicate an early harvest but what you like is all that matters when its for personal. Often times photos dont show sparkle very well. Thanks for the kind words.

 

[Ca++]

Nicely done. I can see you got at least 130g per foot, judging by the 100g pics. Your scales must be broke

I respect you for your honesty. Yields in the mid 20s per meter are as much as anybody should expect. If you search the seed sites, or even google for high yields, you will see it's top of the shop. I just found one site claiming higher, with bubba kush and super silver haze listed 600-1500gpm. They may have pretend diaries to support these claims. However, we know these plants, and can see the band of 600-1500 is just far too wide. Purely to cover the people who get 600g, but wanted 1500. It may even be the outdoor figure.

I spent some time on the highest claiming seeds. Things in the 650-800g bracket, where no real seed bank will venture beyond in it's advertising. I was up against a wall at around 650, with weed that was bred with such focus on yield, that is was mids, if I'm being polite.

Someone will always have a bigger one. Then someone else's will have to be bigger. Message one, asking if you know them, as your mate also averages 100. Pointing out it's an average though. Sometimes he does some low yielding but nice stuff, and only gets 650, but other times they get 120 or even 130g. They will be straight back agreeing theirs is an average, and they also sometimes get 130 or ever 140. Along with something to garner some worship.

However. If you were to do just 1sqm, the situation changes. You might have that 1sqm canopy, and another 4sqm around the sides. If you want more yield, you need to think about more bud sites. That way, you are not cramming more into your canopy to rot it. Instead, you need new bud sites away from the canopy. We know your available power won't allow it there, but perhaps one day you can pull reasonable bottoms. Something you could mix in, or process, and most people are certainly adding to their weigh-in. The stuff like this, that you personally don't let develop

That is that 6g twig I was following over it's 8 weeks, in an unfavourable location. The worst of my bottoms. There is a fair 4g there though. With more light, I feel you could certainly do more yield. With more space, such as a center isle, the situation gets better.
100g is conceivable, which is why some will say they have done it. I don't think it's coming from the heads alone though. Which is your market.


I really think you are doing fine, and your rationalisation of the situation, is worth a lot more than superficial internet claims. You have been to the pub, or fishing, and heard the claims. 40% of people admit they just lie (when anonymous studies are done). Pick at least 10% of claims to be outliers, and what's left is worth competing with. You are very close to godliness, and your plant health and bud quality suggest you will soon be walking on water

 

[CannaT]

You are confusing me with Hammer, i saw that comment. Clear, Cloudy and amber trichome heads all glisten. I do think other things in your product indicate an early harvest but what you like is all that matters when its for personal. Often times photos dont show sparkle very well. Thanks for the kind words.

as far as I can see, there are still brown and bronze spots on the leaves, a man learns as long as he lives. One day you will hopefully correct that too.
🫡

 

[Crooked8]

as far as I can see, there are still brown and bronze spots on the leaves, a man learns as long as he lives. One day you will hopefully correct that too.
🫡

Thanks master gardener sir. 🫡

 

[Crooked8]

Nicely done. I can see you got at least 130g per foot, judging by the 100g pics. Your scales must be broke

I respect you for your honesty. Yields in the mid 20s per meter are as much as anybody should expect. If you search the seed sites, or even google for high yields, you will see it's top of the shop. I just found one site claiming higher, with bubba kush and super silver haze listed 600-1500gpm. They may have pretend diaries to support these claims. However, we know these plants, and can see the band of 600-1500 is just far too wide. Purely to cover the people who get 600g, but wanted 1500. It may even be the outdoor figure.

I spent some time on the highest claiming seeds. Things in the 650-800g bracket, where no real seed bank will venture beyond in it's advertising. I was up against a wall at around 650, with weed that was bred with such focus on yield, that is was mids, if I'm being polite.

Someone will always have a bigger one. Then someone else's will have to be bigger. Message one, asking if you know them, as your mate also averages 100. Pointing out it's an average though. Sometimes he does some low yielding but nice stuff, and only gets 650, but other times they get 120 or even 130g. They will be straight back agreeing theirs is an average, and they also sometimes get 130 or ever 140. Along with something to garner some worship.

However. If you were to do just 1sqm, the situation changes. You might have that 1sqm canopy, and another 4sqm around the sides. If you want more yield, you need to think about more bud sites. That way, you are not cramming more into your canopy to rot it. Instead, you need new bud sites away from the canopy. We know your available power won't allow it there, but perhaps one day you can pull reasonable bottoms. Something you could mix in, or process, and most people are certainly adding to their weigh-in. The stuff like this, that you personally don't let develop
View attachment 19001712
That is that 6g twig I was following over it's 8 weeks, in an unfavourable location. The worst of my bottoms. There is a fair 4g there though. With more light, I feel you could certainly do more yield. With more space, such as a center isle, the situation gets better.
100g is conceivable, which is why some will say they have done it. I don't think it's coming from the heads alone though. Which is your market.


I really think you are doing fine, and your rationalisation of the situation, is worth a lot more than superficial internet claims. You have been to the pub, or fishing, and heard the claims. 40% of people admit they just lie (when anonymous studies are done). Pick at least 10% of claims to be outliers, and what's left is worth competing with. You are very close to godliness, and your plant health and bud quality suggest you will soon be walking on water

I really appreciate it man. Not easy dealing with all of this but i love it a lot. Im limited powerwise for sure or maybe i could dial into higher numbers more easily. Every run is a fresh start and an opportunity to do better. Tweaking a few things this run, gotta keep trying! Thanks for the encouraging words my friend.

 

[Alatrist]

Such an amazing grow @Crooked8

I love to see such a nice yield, such kind of buds and that dense canopy...
May I ask how deep your canopy is?
I guess you dont have any larf as it all looks big and hard...
Thanks for showing this as it inspires a lot!

Cheers!

 

[RoostaPhish]

Used a similar style for years, sans the led, wasn't really a thing yet. And instead of the slabs, I would fill the trays with a 1 to 2 inch layer of the grow cubes/chunks, then cover it with panda film white side up and cut squares out to set the blocks on top of. Created a huge slab that had amazing aeration. Kept feeding frequency down as well, which allowed for better observation of how the plants were reacting to what they were being fed. Not to mention lots of room for roots to spread out.

 

[Crooked8]

Such an amazing grow @Crooked8

I love to see such a nice yield, such kind of buds and that dense canopy...
May I ask how deep your canopy is?
I guess you dont have any larf as it all looks big and hard...
Thanks for showing this as it inspires a lot!

Cheers!

Thanks so much I love what I do , I thank you for checking it out!

 

[Crooked8]

Used a similar style for years, sans the led, wasn't really a thing yet. And instead of the slabs, I would fill the trays with a 1 to 2 inch layer of the grow cubes/chunks, then cover it with panda film white side up and cut squares out to set the blocks on top of. Created a huge slab that had amazing aeration. Kept feeding frequency down as well, which allowed for better observation of how the plants were reacting to what they were being fed. Not to mention lots of room for roots to spread out.

I used to run my trays ebb and flow with chunks when i first started out with hydro. It gave some good results but it was a huge mess. Removal was a pain in the ass for real. Debris everywhere….When i started with slabs it was a holy moment for me. Better control/consistency with drying back and not even 1% of the mess the chunks were. Its also cheaper than the number of bags of chunks required. The slabs are just more consistent, cost effective and way easier to remove. Thats been my experience anyway. If you look back at some of my media from like 2013-2014 youll see trays under hps with chunks.

 

[Crooked8]

Such an amazing grow @Crooked8

I love to see such a nice yield, such kind of buds and that dense canopy...
May I ask how deep your canopy is?
I guess you dont have any larf as it all looks big and hard...
Thanks for showing this as it inspires a lot!

Cheers!

Thanks so much! The canopy is about 18-24in deep id say, if you notice in the photos, the trellis is basically designed to have a sort of basket on stilts look. I try to train everything to “stay in the basket” so to speak. Each one is about 4 ft x 10 ft and about 2ft deep. Ill measure sometime, not exactly sure on the depth number. And the larf is absolutely kept to a minimum. There is still some stuff here and there that we bin for other use but its probably 1% or less total. Cheers!

 

[RoostaPhish]

Yes, they are more pricey than slabs. I never had any issues with cleanup really. It all became one huge single slab by the end. Again, I liked feeding the plants less consistently. Seems you prefer more cycles. Just a different way of doing things. I've definitely ran slabs as well. I couldn't always find the cubes/chunks. Slabs were always in stock.

 

[Dr.Dutch]

Hey,
love the setup you got there. Can't wait to see similar spaces in the CSCs here in Germany soon, maybe even lend a hand in managing a bigger grow.

Bummer about the nutrient issues you're dealing with. Seems like your fertilizer, typical of most hydro store stuff, might be the culprit. (If you've got specific data on ppm of micro and macronutrients, I could take a closer look.)
Since you mentioned Bugbee, I gotta recommend him too, especially for nutrient info. Detailed stuff on closed system nutrient management can be found here:

Principles of Nutrient and Water Management for Indoor Agriculture

Mass balance principles are a cornerstone of efficient fertilizer use and can be utilized to optimize plant nutrition without discarding or leaching solution. Here, we describe the maintenance of closed hydroponic and soilless substrate systems based on mass balance. Water removed by...

www.mdpi.com

The nutrient solution they use at his university here (for cannabis on page 4 and 5):

https://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1001&context=cpl_nutrients

A study where he looked into the effects of more P (and K through monoammonium phosphate). It strongly suggests PK boosters are unnecessary - as other studies have also indicated. Bugbee used to mention this in his old videos, growers tend to overdo it with P big time.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/364347275_Sustainable_Cannabis_Nutrition_Elevated_root-zone_phosphorus_significantly_increases_leachate_P_and_does_not_improve_yield_or_quality

I've been sticking to professional sources for very long now, ditched hydro store fertilizers altogether. No issues, plants stay perfectly green till the end.
You can cross-reference Bugbee's nutrients with the study, covers a wider range, should handle any extreme genetic outliers.

Hemp Leaf Tissue Nutrient Ranges: Refinement of Reference Standards for Floral Hemp | NC State Extension Publications

As a newly legal crop, little information exists about optimum nutrient levels in hemp. This publication provides additional information on hemp leaf tissue nutrient ranges from a survey conducted between 2017 and 2020.

content.ces.ncsu.edu

Fertilizers like AN, BioBizz and GH deviate a lot from these recommendations. No wonder nutrient problems are so common in grows. Only benefits the manufacturers. With a setup like yours, solid fertilizers like Haifa are not only cheaper but way better for the plants.
Attached a couple of screenshots from my Excel sheet, just so you know I'm not talking out of my hat (grow report's also in the German sub if you're interested - running coco/perlit, no flush and very low drain over the whole run - very similar to your e&f rock wool setup).
The solution is quite similar to what Bugbee used in the P study. Just more Mg and S (needed more for the last strain, but gonna dial it down next round and see if the new one copes with less).

Hope that helps a bit.
Cheers and peace

 

[CannaT]

Hey,
love the setup you got there. Can't wait to see similar spaces in the CSCs here in Germany soon, maybe even lend a hand in managing a bigger grow.

Bummer about the nutrient issues you're dealing with. Seems like your fertilizer, typical of most hydro store stuff, might be the culprit. (If you've got specific data on ppm of micro and macronutrients, I could take a closer look.)
Since you mentioned Bugbee, I gotta recommend him too, especially for nutrient info. Detailed stuff on closed system nutrient management can be found here:

Principles of Nutrient and Water Management for Indoor Agriculture

Mass balance principles are a cornerstone of efficient fertilizer use and can be utilized to optimize plant nutrition without discarding or leaching solution. Here, we describe the maintenance of closed hydroponic and soilless substrate systems based on mass balance. Water removed by...

www.mdpi.com

The nutrient solution they use at his university here (for cannabis on page 4 and 5):

https://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1001&context=cpl_nutrients

A study where he looked into the effects of more P (and K through monoammonium phosphate). It strongly suggests PK boosters are unnecessary - as other studies have also indicated. Bugbee used to mention this in his old videos, growers tend to overdo it with P big time.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/364347275_Sustainable_Cannabis_Nutrition_Elevated_root-zone_phosphorus_significantly_increases_leachate_P_and_does_not_improve_yield_or_quality

I've been sticking to professional sources for very long now, ditched hydro store fertilizers altogether. No issues, plants stay perfectly green till the end.
You can cross-reference Bugbee's nutrients with the study, covers a wider range, should handle any extreme genetic outliers.

Hemp Leaf Tissue Nutrient Ranges: Refinement of Reference Standards for Floral Hemp | NC State Extension Publications

As a newly legal crop, little information exists about optimum nutrient levels in hemp. This publication provides additional information on hemp leaf tissue nutrient ranges from a survey conducted between 2017 and 2020.

content.ces.ncsu.edu

Fertilizers like AN, BioBizz and GH deviate a lot from these recommendations. No wonder nutrient problems are so common in grows. Only benefits the manufacturers. With a setup like yours, solid fertilizers like Haifa are not only cheaper but way better for the plants.
Attached a couple of screenshots from my Excel sheet, just so you know I'm not talking out of my hat (grow report's also in the German sub if you're interested - running coco/perlit, no flush and very low drain over the whole run - very similar to your e&f rock wool setup).
The solution is quite similar to what Bugbee used in the P study. Just more Mg and S (needed more for the last strain, but gonna dial it down next round and see if the new one copes with less).

Hope that helps a bit.
Cheers and peace


View attachment 19002931 View attachment 19002932 View attachment 19002933 View attachment 19002934

I used Haifa nutrients for years and they are of highest quality. I recomend them to everyone in hydro setups.

 

[fonzee]

wow, so much info here, still page 2, good stuff

I love how clean it is, props.
Real nice buds too.

Drybacks are bad for terpenes and cannabinoids. These are secondary metabolites, and thus not produced when the plant is in stressing conditions.

The burn on second page was P toxicity but acidity and N are strong, I would guess it is just because of drying the substrate. Its just removing the water, you know.

Dont stress your plants, keep them happy. Good happy buds.

Cheers

 

[Alatrist]

Thanks so much! The canopy is about 18-24in deep id say, if you notice in the photos, the trellis is basically designed to have a sort of basket on stilts look. I try to train everything to “stay in the basket” so to speak. Each one is about 4 ft x 10 ft and about 2ft deep. Ill measure sometime, not exactly sure on the depth number. And the larf is absolutely kept to a minimum. There is still some stuff here and there that we bin for other use but its probably 1% or less total. Cheers!

Thank you so much! How close did you get the tops to the lights? They are so close but look so good! Are the top buds closest any less terpy/smelly or the same as the rest?

Cheers!

 

[Crooked8]

Thank you so much! How close did you get the tops to the lights? They are so close but look so good! Are the top buds closest any less terpy/smelly or the same as the rest?

Cheers!

They were too close this run. This is the closest ive ever gotten, some tops were 4-5ish inches away from bars. Way too close tbh. No less terpy, the only issue is the varied response when it comes to photobleaching. Our ogs all photobleached a little, the truffle and truffle mintz could be seriously 4-5 inches away and not one sign of stress or bleaching, its wild. This has been added to my list of things to consider when i place which strains in which location.

 

[urislav3000]

Hi very informative description of all your grows thanks for that.

I would be interested in your climate concept. What is the arrangement of your ac and your dehumidifiers. With the carbon filter I assume that you are not running a closed system? Is your mum and colne room also connected to it?

 

[fonzee]

Read this whole thing
Good stuff, thanks

You seem to operate the grows very profesionally, and your numbers are impressive

Want to drop this one off

Effect of Potassium (K) Supply on Cannabinoids, Terpenoids and Plant Function in Medical Cannabis

We have demonstrated in previous studies that the essential macro-nutrients nitrogen (N) and phosporous (P) have profound effects on the production of cannabinoids and terpenoids in the cannabis plant. The present study was undertaken to evaluate the hypothesis that potassium (K) supply, which...

www.mdpi.com

This regards quality drops with K increase
I have been seeing same effect in my experience

And what about light reflectors for the sides?

 

[weedemart]

You can't achieve top tier results if you dont have everything dialed in and as other and I stated your nutrients solution is not optimal , other than that I think you could be limited by the size of the slab. Would be interesting to know how much you yield by slab on average. If you let the slab dry too much it will affect yield too.

Anyway it all depend on various factor.

theorical yield is dli * yield factor * number of days / surface

at constant dli , the number of days will have significant impact on the final yield, in theory.

thats why you can achieve incredible result on some metrics but it doesnt tell you if it outperformed a different scenario because it took longer time to achieve those result.

the sqft metrics have to be in balance with the effiency of the method to be cost-effective.

 

[Crooked8]

Happy Ladies
Week 3