Nitrogen/other deficiency?

phattybudz · Feb 6, 2008

What system are you running? RDWC
What STRAIN are you growing?I think mango but not sure
What was the establishing technique? clone
What is the age of your plants? about 3 weeks..?
How tall are the plants? smallest is 3 in., biggest is about 5
What PHASE are the plants in? They're vegging on flourescents.. or is that seedling?
What Technique are you using? Uhh..technique?
What substrate/medium are you using? rockwool/hydroton
What is the Water temperature? 79
What color are your roots? The ones I can see are white
What Nutrient's are you using? Botanicare
What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using? 300ppm nutes, total ppm is at 550. BUT the nutes were at 100ppm for like 2 days before this started.
What is the pH of the "Tank"? 5.3 right now but I keep having to adjust it because it's rising
Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equiptment? Not 100%.
When was your last watering? Filled the res. yesterday, I have them dripping 15 min. every 3 hours
How often do you clean your system: 2 weeks, but I haven't had to yet.
What size bulb are you using? 5 flourescents - 1 is 80w and i think the rest are 40
What is the distance to the canopy? 6 inches
What is your RH Factor(Relative Humidity)? about 60%
What is the canopy temperature? 77
What is the Day/Night Temp? Haven't kept track of that
What is the current Air Flow? Just have a clip-fan running
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? Yep
Is your water HARD or SOFT? Moderately hard
What water are you using? Tap (let it sit overnight)

:bashhead:

So there's this yellowing...think it will get better now that I increased the nutes? I'm guessing it's a nitrogen deficiency but I'm a first timer, clueless, and frustrated beyond belief. It's in an original hydrohut 52x52x7 but I had a buddy use it before w/no problems. TIA for any help. Btw, if it is a nitrogen/other deficiency, is it salvageable? there are 5 brothers who are in the same condition.

*edit* Forgot, I also tossed in thrive-alive when I filled the res yesterday.. 1ml per litre of water.

HeadyPete · Feb 7, 2008

Iron deficiency, nutes were a little low. Feed some CalMag, it has iron and the cal and mag will help too.

Your ph is too low. 5.8 at least. This isn't causing the iron def, but it is causing the krinkling and twisting of your leaves.

Your rez ph will rise as a natural process when the plants take nutes from the solution, and rockwool is alkaline until the cal and mag leach out of it.

Check and adjust ph daily! Welcome to hydro!

phattybudz · Feb 7, 2008

Thanks, so 300ppm is good until they go under the MH then? I got the 5.3-5.5 number from blazeone's dwc tutorial, you think it should be higher though eh? I will trust you.

You think they'll bounce back and be ok though? I'm really scared I'm going to murder them...I'll pick up some cal-mag on the way home tomorrow and give em love, thanks again!

MynameStitch · Feb 7, 2008

I think that may look more like sulfur than iron, but either way they are hungry and like petey said, take his advice and your problem will be fixed.

Phatty, are you growing in a hydrohut?

sirgrassalot · Feb 7, 2008

It does kinda look like HH syndrome.

HeadyPete · Feb 7, 2008

You think it's sulfur? The two look very similar, don't they? On closer inspection I think you are correct. The small deformed leaves seem to indicate sulfur. My bad.

That's easy then, add 2 teaspoons Epsom salts per 1 gal nute solution, along with an increase in grow nutes, and all should be well. I'd still give a a dose of calmag, MJ loves cal and mag and chances are you will need the boost soon enough. I usually add 5ml/4L every 4th watering or so, depending on strain.

Guest · Feb 7, 2008

Unfortunately I dont know where the link is but cana did a series of deficiencies...

one of which was sulfur(they also did iron)

There were a few things canna said that sticks in my memory...

1. sulfur normally shows at the bottom of the plant.... they said they were suprised since they expected it at the top...

2. they exhibited red petioles...

3. the leaves were perfectly normal (no deformities)

4. it appeared to me the that overall leaf yellowed at the same time....

This fits my view of iron def....

that is green tips....and yellowed interiiors....

however this does seem to show diminished leaf size which doesnt normally occur with iron def....

If anyone knows about the canna link please post it....

MynameStitch · Feb 7, 2008

Every problem that I have seen like this though and I told them it was sulfur and they fixed it with sulfur though........ I never seen a sulfur problem not start on the top plant though......... however, we can find out whos right and fix a problem if I am wrong....

ASk him to use sulfur based nutrient with no iron and see what happens

Guest · Feb 7, 2008

As I have heard you say..... sulfur is need in very small amounts....

In some experiments I saw....

they were having trubs getting plants to show sulfur def because of the sulfur in the air.......

this was in europe...

but its an easy thing to test....

epsoms only has magnesium and sulfur.....

do nothing diff and add epsoms for the test....

Oh and by the way.... remember that big thing about the canna pics in your sick plant guide from og....

you dont know where that canna stuff can be found do you???

Id like the link....

as I recall they did....

magnesium...
sulfur
iron
phos
potassium...

maybe one more....

phattybudz · Feb 8, 2008

well I just wasted a lot of time and money haha.. I accidentally put in 2x the amount of epsom salt that was necessary. flushed nutrients, thrive alive cal-mag, ph-down and epson salt down the drain....I feel like such an idiot..... draining and refilling, is it smarter to refill it right away or let the water sit overnight and have them be without water and nutes for 12 hours?

MynameStitch · Feb 8, 2008

I will find the link for ya pepe, I still have it somewhere gimme a little bit and I will go through them, it's like going through a libaray of information lol.

I do still have some of the canna pics on a disc though if you want to see them.

How much epsom salts did you use?
you using RO water or tap water? If you are using tap water then you should always let it sit out before using it.....
Chlorine can damage the plant depending the amount in there.

Ya, I would avoid using thrive alive, it's a vitamin supplement and stress reducer that should only be used very carefully.

HeadyPete · Feb 8, 2008

I don't think DWC plants can go without water for 20 minutes, let alone 12 hours....

Even if the pump fails you could have trouble quickly from root rot.

You can bubble tap water with an aquarium stone to speed up the gassing off of the chlorine.

phattybudz · Feb 8, 2008

just tossed in 20 gallons of water, a little under 100ml Epsom salt, 100ml calmag, and 100ml thrive-alive, and my ppm went from 200 to 1200. Did I screw something up already? This seems ridiculously high...

HeadyPete · Feb 8, 2008

Stitch told you to avoid using thrive alive and you throw in 100 ml?

Why are you guessing at this? You still are not feeding any balanced food. Calmag has N but that's it. Epsom isn't food, nor is thrive alive. T-A can not boost growth if there is nothing to boost.

Also, you have now doubled the magnesium between the epsom and the calmag. If you have calmag you don't need epsom too.

Yes, your ppms are RIDICULOUSLY high and I'd be surprised if the plants make it through the night....

:badday:

again, why are you just guessing at this? Stitch is gonna shit herself......

I'll leave it to her to help you out of this one.....

phattybudz · Feb 8, 2008

haha man.. Have mercy, I feel bad enough about this as it is... I misunderstood and thought it needed both, and I tossed that in before I read stitch's post. I haven't been feeding it that, I just mixed it. So, it should have been 20 gallons of tap water that sat overnight, 100ml of calmag and 300 ppm power plant then right? I will let the water sit and feed them tomorrow morni g unless you guys think they're unsalvagable at this point...

lordjack · Feb 8, 2008

the more mistakes u make funnier you find it? -judging your haha's.
not the way to go.

if i were you i would be crying by now not laughing....

phattybudz · Feb 8, 2008

Im very upset about it actually... Its just that I'd rather laugh it off than cry & dwell on it...I mean its not the end of the world. Worst case scenario I might lose like $50 and some hours. (and never be able to live with the fact that I was a negligent parent...

)

HeadyPete · Feb 8, 2008

good news you didn't feed that mix.

Stitch will help you with your fert regime.

Laughing is better than crying....good attitude on ya! :yes:

MynameStitch · Feb 8, 2008

HeadyPete said:
I don't think DWC plants can go without water for 20 minutes, let alone 12 hours....

Even if the pump fails you could have trouble quickly from root rot.

You can bubble tap water with an aquarium stone to speed up the gassing off of the chlorine.

Yup, very true, that is why peeps use 2 pumps in one bucket sometimes, in case one fails you have a backup, roots sitting in stale water for around 15 min will start to show problems afterwards all the h2o in the water is removed.

It's a good thing I read the whole thread before I post, cause I would have been like !*&&*Q^@&*!^(@(&*!^@ WTH 100ml?! Omg dude, /me gets the violin out.

thrive alive is strong, good micronutrients, but it also has vitamins in it, which build up quickly, that was like pouring a half a bottle of superthrive in there.....

phattybudz · Feb 8, 2008

Thx for the encouragement Pete.

Stitch/Pete, do you think they're worth trying to save? By the time I feed them (I have to let water sit till tomorrow morning,) they'll have been without food and water for 2 days... I'm wondering if I should just try and get some new healthy babies or if I should try to bring these back to life....?

Nitrogen/other deficiency?

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