Darwin-istic question

PoppinFresh · Aug 6, 2007

I was just thinking about evolution in general and it leads me to wonder about the evolution of marijuana. I ask this because I think about how the teeth of different animals develop over thousands of years in response to diet. I think about how that plant that flowers every 10 years smells like dead, rotting bodies. All of these developments in all life on this planet have occurred for some reason or the other.

So with that in mind, what do you guys think is the reason marijuana started producing THC? Was it a defensive response like the bright colors of a poisonous toad (you know what I mean lol)? I simply couldn't think of a good reason as to what benefits the plant got out of producing THC. Is it like some weird mutation that simply stuck?

Anyway, I can't think of it. It's one of those questions I prefer to chalk up to God but I've never liked going that route. Anyway, any ideas?

bdlt · Aug 6, 2007

It probably has a lot to do with the beneficial properties of THC and mans desire to cultivate and refine the plant because of said properties. There has been an amazing leap in understanding of the plant in the last 100 years. Arguably MJ is one of the most genetically diverse plants on the planet and is only getting more so.

Lemon · Aug 6, 2007

There is no confirmed reason. Lots of people speculate that it is to intoxicate animals which may try to eat the plant. Others, mistaking resin and THC to be synonomous believe it is to trap small insects in a flypaper type manner, but many plants produce resins, and the THC its self is not resinous, it is merely found within the resin of the cannabis plant. Some say it is to protect from ultraviolet radiation, but as with the previous point, this is a property of resin, which many plants have, minus THC.

Keep in mind that most of the people speculating about these things aren't chemists or biologists or so forth, they are usually people just like you and me sitting at home on a computer browsing a forum on the internet. No qualified person has ever proved and documented an evolutionary purpose, but merely offered a subjective guess as well. As is most likely, THC is just one of the hundreds of coincident chemicals found in nature which serve no evolutionary purpose. Not all of the chemicals in the human body, for instance, have a use either. But hey, now I'm speculating too :smile:

PoppinFresh · Aug 6, 2007

LOL! I guess this will be one of the great mysteries of the world. Let's chalk it up to God for now!

What do you think made people decide to smoke it? What made people decide to smoke tobacco? or eat coca leaves like they still do today in South America? peyote?

As far as smoking marijuana, I am thinking local people, where ever "local" is, just needed some fire wood one day, saw a huge field of 10-12 foot jorge cervantes sized marijuana trees (lol), dried it out cuz they knew moist wood didn't burn well, threw it on top of an already burning fire to keep it going and got F***** UP!

Then, as people started migrating across the globe and came into North America over the Bering Strait from Russia, they said... F*** WE FORGOT THE MARIJUANA. Then they just started smoking all kinds of shit, got pissed, and settled on tobacco!

As far as eating, I think people in general were just friggin hungry! So, they start Garfielding what looked ok! Some guy took a bite of a coca leaf and built a pyramid... by himself lol.

anyway, i hope other people have some ideas as to the evolutionary purpose of THC in marijuana!

Lemon · Aug 6, 2007

PoppinFresh said:
As far as smoking marijuana, I am thinking local people, where ever "local" is, just needed some fire wood one day, saw a huge field of 10-12 foot jorge cervantes sized marijuana trees (lol), dried it out cuz they knew moist wood didn't burn well, threw it on top of an already burning fire to keep it going and got FUCKED UP!

Then, as people started migrating across the globe and came into North America over the Bering Strait from Russia, they said... FUCK WE FORGOT THE MARIJUANA. Then they just started smoking all kinds of shit, got pissed, and settled on tobacco!

As far as eating, I think people in general were just friggin hungry! So, they start Garfielding what looked ok! Some guy took a bite of a coca leaf and built a pyramid... by himself lol.

Ahahah, you never know :biglaugh:

bilbo baggins · Aug 6, 2007

Well, the evolution of the plant is one side of it but another was the co-evolution of the plant with its cultivator. When a man plants a seed, he picks the seed from the best looking plant. I think MJ evolution has been dramatically sped up in the past 30 years or so. Breeders looking for the best genetics. Many OGers say that there is better pot around these days....

But as for the origination of THC, I'm with the earlier posters - it was a defense mechanism. Every chemical that a plant produces that doesn't go towards feeding itself or reproducing is produced for defense. Whether that is for the sticky resin to trap insects or the intoxicating effects of the chemical. I would have to vote for the intoxicating effects - plants usually like insects since they are great pollinators.

Boerman · Aug 7, 2007

Man's intervention may not be "evolution" at all. The qualities we look for and perpetuate may not be the same ones that would be the most advantageous to the plant in terms of survival and improvement. It could well be that the traits we breed for would be traits that would make the plant more attractive to its natural enemies.

PoppinFresh · Aug 7, 2007

Boerman said:
Man's intervention may not be "evolution" at all. The qualities we look for and perpetuate may not be the same ones that would be the most advantageous to the plant in terms of survival and improvement. It could well be that the traits we breed for would be traits that would make the plant more attractive to its natural enemies.

lol like spider mites :cuss:

Local420 · Aug 7, 2007

According to "Botany of Desire" described by Michael Pollan.

"Many botanists speculate that THC initially evolved as a toxin to deter herbivores. But this evolutionary strategy was diverted when THC became attractive to humans."

I also read somewhere that THC is used as a defense by gumming up insects jaws who try to eat them.

I don't think we'll ever find out the true beginnings. We should start an ICMAG archelogical (sp?) dig where some of the first plants grew.. :rasta:

PoppinFresh · Aug 7, 2007

Local420 said:
According to "Botany of Desire" described by Michael Pollan.

"Many botanists speculate that THC initially evolved as a toxin to deter herbivores. But this evolutionary strategy was diverted when THC became attractive to humans."

I also read somewhere that THC is used as a defense by gumming up insects jaws who try to eat them.

I don't think we'll ever find out the true beginnings. We should start an ICMAG archelogical (sp?) dig where some of the first plants grew..

ohhhhhhh the buds would be really nice and cured after a million years huh.
:joint:

but seriously, that sounds feasible. now, i wanna feed an insect some thc directly to see how the it would gum up the jaws especially since i caught a damn bug sucking straight from the damn stem. now his ass is cut in half laying on the floor lol.
:bat:

anyway, makes me feel like we shoulda waited a few more thousand years to cultivate. might have had resin glands on the stem too.
:muahaha:

Local420 · Aug 8, 2007

PoppinFresh said:
ohhhhhhh the buds would be really nice and cured after a million years huh.

Hell yeah they would.

One can only imagine they strains that were around millions of years ago...possibly even hidden away in some seed you might have laying around

HCSmyth · Aug 9, 2007

Lemon said:
Some say it is to protect from ultraviolet radiation, but as with the previous point, this is a property of resin, which many plants have, minus THC.

I thought the theory goes that the specific canabniod: Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol or THC for us layman, entire purpose for being is to actually protect the plant from the sun's UV-B radiation?

PoppinFresh · Aug 9, 2007

HCSmyth said:
I thought the theory goes that the specific canabniod: Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol or THC for us layman, entire purpose for being is to actually protect the plant from the sun's UV-B radiation?

interesting... thinkin thc might be useful for suntan lotion with our depleting ozone. then again if the necessary concentration is too high, it might be used like honey oil lol. "oooo your blunts are sooo smoooth!"

i wonder if they have done any testing with that.

HCSmyth · Aug 9, 2007

Back in the day when I grew, I use to watch Marijuana Man's The Grow Show. So every once in awhile I still check out his show.

In his latest show he talks about THC/UV-B possible sun protection relationship and it makes some sense to me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPcpt3Be28o

While he may not be a true expert you can not deny the guy's interest in THC and cannabis. So I am curious about what UV-B supplementation would do to an indoor garden.

PoppinFresh · Aug 9, 2007

HCSmyth said:
Back in the day when I grew, I use to watch Marijuana Man's The Grow Show. So every once in awhile I still check out his show.

In his latest show he talks about THC/UV-B possible sun protection relationship and it makes some sense to me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPcpt3Be28o

While he may not be a true expert you can not deny the guy's interest in THC and cannabis. So I am curious about what UV-B supplementation would do to an indoor garden.

yeeeaaaaah... that's what im talkin about. increase that stress factor and the plant may be forced into building a greater defense by creating more thc glands. throw in a little mad science across a few strains and, in a few generations, we could have MEGAWEEEEED!
:jump:

EDIT
Just finished watching the video... seems like we wouldn't even have to wait a few generations, the plants are doing it now. i think when the plant starts producing thc, it would be the best time to introduce a UVB light. now where to get one lol..

Check this out
http://www.futurepets.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=ZMFSC10

maybe a 5.0 (5%) UVB light will be good as not to over do the light. it looks like the same type of cfl im runnin now cept that one is 20-something mine is 125/dual spectrum. im thinkin run it on separate timers for that 5 hours a day that was mentioned in the video. man i'm first time grower. im not ready for this shit. lol. and that's why i put this question in the grower's forum. maybe i should ask to move it to the breeder's forums. but i'm going to try this one out on my next grow attempt tee hee hee!

:chin:

HCSmyth · Aug 11, 2007

PoppinFresh said:
yeeeaaaaah... that's what im talkin about. increase that stress factor and the plant may be forced into building a greater defense by creating more thc glands. throw in a little mad science across a few strains and, in a few generations, we could have MEGAWEEEEED!

EDIT
Just finished watching the video... seems like we wouldn't even have to wait a few generations, the plants are doing it now. i think when the plant starts producing thc, it would be the best time to introduce a UVB light. now where to get one lol..

Check this out
http://www.futurepets.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=ZMFSC10

maybe a 5.0 (5%) UVB light will be good as not to over do the light. it looks like the same type of cfl im runnin now cept that one is 20-something mine is 125/dual spectrum. im thinkin run it on separate timers for that 5 hours a day that was mentioned in the video. man i'm first time grower. im not ready for this shit. lol. and that's why i put this question in the grower's forum. maybe i should ask to move it to the breeder's forums. but i'm going to try this one out on my next grow attempt tee hee hee!

Well it could work but I highly suspect you will need a regular 400 watt HPS plus the 10.0 UVB Desert lamp to notice anything special, if at all. If I was to grow I would go with 2000 Watts of regular HID light in my flower room and then supplement with 2 to 4, 10.0 UVB Desert Compact Fluorescents. I would also do another flower room with the same clones with no UVB lights and compare the pot! Focus on perfecting your grow skills first and then experiment as you get better!

Finally, different clones will likely respond to higher UVB levels I suspect so there is your natural selection in progress!

beej · Aug 11, 2007

This is quite interesting. I love doing experiments and stuff, but I don't have the equipment to do a controlled experiment like this. I definitely will stay on this thread to see what comes of it. I'm really surprised somebody hasn't done something like this before.

peace

tankgunner · Aug 11, 2007

Darwin was full of shit on the evolution theory! he even denounced it on his death bed. he better had or he would be burning in hell as we speak! he was smokng to much crippy i guess!

PoppinFresh · Aug 11, 2007

beej said:
This is quite interesting. I love doing experiments and stuff, but I don't have the equipment to do a controlled experiment like this. I definitely will stay on this thread to see what comes of it. I'm really surprised somebody hasn't done something like this before.

peace

well this is what i was getting to. i was going to make a thread asking about UVB light specifically but i found someone already started one not that long ago lol.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?postid=1001055
and
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?postid=1054089

...and there were a few others. i was going to bump the first one yesterday but it would seem that not a lot of people have used it at all. seems just one person tried it and wasn't very enthusiastic. but i think the use of UVB may be related to the rumor/gossip/old (or new) wives' tale regarding black light use in a possibly silly way. i figure someone just had the right idea about the spectrum direction but not about the intensity.

anyway, i did do a search for those particular lights and came up with
http://www.zoomed.com click on lighting in the menu, then take a peek at the first three links available.

i figured if i could find it this easy, and the pricing was pretty low for such additions to a grow room, then others must have found it long before me but for whatever reason didn't want to mess with it. but if anything, i would just bump that old post instead of start a new one.

i would try it and post results but im a lil over a month into my first grow. i ain't ready to play scientist just yet. im still learning lol.

HCSmyth · Aug 11, 2007

tankgunner said:
Darwin was full of shit on the evolution theory! he even denounced it on his death bed. he better had or he would be burning in hell as we speak! he was smokng to much crippy i guess!

Nope he was right, he just probably did what many humans do in a moment of weakness abandon reason in favor of fear.

Darwin-istic question

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