It's workin it's way up my ladies

icky420 · Nov 10, 2006

OK I'm starting to have this habit with plants and I dont like it. I lost a crop from something similar and I need to figure it out. I never had a problem untill I started using a PH pen and EJ UP/Down. Before I would just use EJ nutes and never worry about PH, never had a problem. This really makes me mad because I have run a few crops in this box and I'm trying to dial it in....

So...all organic soil grow...2x 250HPS...4x2x4 box...temps sit around 78F (cool day) and around 82F (normal day..it's the best I can do) 1wk into flower..

Foreknowledge- I have taken all basic steps to correct this. Flushing tommorow, oh wait today.

So here is the problem. I have leaves workin in these deteriorating stages. Workin from the bottom up. ((it's gonna get my buds))

They start lookin something like this:

Then....

After that..

Almost dead...

Falling off.......

Shot of the canopy.

Core · Nov 10, 2006

im no plantdr but it seems that it is a mag def...i had a similar prob a few weeks ago....but just wait for other repley's .....(my 2cents)

whats your soils ph?

good luck my friend :joint:

glock23 · Nov 10, 2006

Try some dolomite lime. stop messing with the ph up/down. just use dolomite lime and you'll be fine

sproutco · Nov 10, 2006

Uh oh, don't blame Sproutco ®

Uh oh, don't blame Sproutco ®

it's gonna get my buds

Spray both sides of the leaves with 1 tablespoon epsom salts per quart/liter of water. :sasmokin:

Next day, respray with plain water but not so much that its dripping off the plant.

In the future to prevent this:

Even with a low rate of dolomite lime and gypsum in the soil, I suggest adding a low rate of cal., mag., sulfur along with the regular fertilizer in the water. 1/4 teaspoon of both epsom salts and powdered gypsum can be added per gallon of water (3.8L) every third or fourth time you fertilize. Do this every time if cal mag supplies in the soil run low or no dolomite lime. This provides about 30 ppm magnesium and 70 ppm calcium.

icky420 · Nov 10, 2006

I'm using Fox Farm Happy for soil. It has oyster shell in it to balance PH, plus I added about 1tbsp lime to the 5gal soil I mixed before transplanting. My PH is constant 6.8-6.9. I also have/use Metanatuals Calcium, and Cal-Mag Plus. I was really thinking it might be a Potassium deficiency but more, a Calcium Toxicity. My biggest problem is I have supplemented EVERY need in proportion.

Does anyone think there may be a Toxicity of something not just a Deficiency? We really need to work this out for the better of the community. I see this all time and it dosent look like anything thats being said, helps. I should run a crop and specificly leave out centain nutes to make a good write-up on deficiencys. Hmmm

glock- I only use the PH UP/Down when I mix my nutes. After I add my nutes the water PH is like 4-4.2. Are you suggesting I feed them at that PH? I mean that is what I did before and never had a problem. But then my buddy was like thats prob something that would make things better for ya, he thought I was crazy to be feeding them that low of a PH.

sproutco · Nov 10, 2006

Once a mg deficiency occurs, it is very difficult to correct, particularly if the deficiency occurs in the mid point in the growing season. In those plant species that have a high mg requirement, the deficiency may be triggered by various environmental and physiological stress...An interesting side effect of mg deficiency is the possible increase in susceptibility to fungus disease.

You might just need more magnesium. Other factors to consider...
> your ph is too high
> too much calcium or potassium or both

Spray 1 tablespoon epsom salts per quart/liter of water. :sasmokin:

(For the weak of heart :frown:

, drench instead once with 2 teaspoons epsom salts per gallon of water.)

weed_snob · Nov 10, 2006

I dont trust ph up or down personally, i think it modifies the chemical structure of the nutes makeing some chelated elements unavailable.

If the soil can buffer the nutes then let it do its job. As long as your run off is in the right range then fuck the rest of it.

Btw when this happened to me (progressive yellow top to bottom old to young) i didn't loose any buds. I did loose some production but the buds still turned out fine, nice and crystaly

Kush · Nov 11, 2006

Your ph seems a lil high for soil, i personally stay around 6.5 for soil and have no problems , your deficiency is magnesium as others have said. Follow sproutco's advice and it should fix itself. Even if your soil has oyster/lime already in it you'll still need to supplement magnesium along with your npk ferts. Good luck and i hope it turns around for you.

420KushMaster · Nov 11, 2006

hello icers & boners
if it was working for you before then stick with it dude. shove that ph meter up some boners ass. ph up and down is just a quick fix and dont solve your real problems.
ahh when in soil ph is not that big of a factor 6.8 6.9 is fine in your organic mix. only when dealing with hydro is when ph is a big factor.
you that dont grow organic should not post your weak comments.

icky420 · Nov 27, 2006

OK..things are not looking to good here. I have followed sproutco's advice with the Mg, and although I can say there was a noticable change in the new growth. I never got any of the older leaves to green up. The tops and new growth are doing better and growing green, but all my lower leaves are just turning a kind of dark yellow and then falling when touched. I dont see any burning or any other distinguishable problem. Bud production sure hasent stoped, I've never had such blowing up plants. I sure dont get this.........

sproutco · Nov 27, 2006

icky420 said:
I have followed sproutco's advice with the Mg

How much epsom salts did you use? Did you drench the soil or spray both sides of the leaves? You are feeding the plant npk + micros in your water, right?

dre86 · Nov 27, 2006

Seems like all the leaves will die off soon, how many weeks flowering is that plant? I'm guessing 3th week?

icky420 · Nov 27, 2006

I gave them about 1/2tsp in a 36oz spray bottle on the 10th, then on the 11th I gave them the same streangth with a little added B.C. Seaweed for potas. Thats when I saw green come back in the new growth. But the lower leaves were still turning yellow and droping. (This are my exact activitiys since then)

14th I watered with Epsom 1/2tsp:1gal..

16th I got worried and flushed, then watered with Liquid Karma 2tsp:gal and EJ Microblast 1/4tsp:1gal..ALSO foliar fed a 10ppm N mix

19th Small amount Metanaturals Base 3-3-3 1/4tsp+8tsp Tiger Bloom:1gal

22th Made a tea of BudSwell 2tbs+ EJ Catalyst 1/2tsp+ 1tbs of some carbs in 1gal..Bubbled for 24hr on top a heating pad on low

And on the 24th I watered with a little epsom....

They are do to be watered/fed tonight when they wake up. Any suggestions? 26days into flower. Good guess dre86

sproutco · Nov 27, 2006

Spray both sides of the leaves with 1 tablespoon epsom salts per quart of water. Add a good dose of npk fertilizer to the soil. Not weak. Not just phosphorus.

SEEDYNONO · Nov 27, 2006

i always seem to get terrible problems when i use general hydroponics ph up and down stuff. my tap water comes out too high so i ususally just use the down.

but what's the real truth here can ph up and down hurt more than it helps? does it kill bacteria or alter anything in the composition of the nutes (pbp), addatives (like lk or cal/mag), or soil medium itself (ffof)? someone must know.

i hate getting tips like 'use h2o2 to kill root rot' only to find out that the h2o2 killed ALL the bacteria in the soil and now the plant has no food.. needs to be transplanted to new soil. this should be mentioned to organic growers! i wonder now if this ph chemical stuff is the same way. i'm convinced its not helping my grow at all. everytime i use it more things go wrong. i made a foliar spray (which i still am not convinced actually works with mj either) with a very light (1ml per gallon) nute solution and ph adjusted it. sprayed the plants down during lights off and by the next day the leaves are all screwed up. definetely never using this ph adjuster stuff anymore. my plants are much happier in 7.0 ph environment than a 6.2-6.5 made that way by this orange acid.

maybe i'll mess with it if i can find an all organic one that is guaranteed safe for the plants. i won't even trust someone saying 'i use gh ph up and down without any problems' cause i have problems.

btw i ran my last grow without any ph adjusting and went back to it for my newest grow to see if i had different results. the grow done entirely with no adjustment was much healthier and hickup free.

icky420 · Nov 27, 2006

Funny I was just lookin at sproutco's avatar and my techno music was going great with the club......Party on...

.......Singing.......
Freestyle's kickin' in the house tonight
Move your body from left to right
To all you freaks, don't stop the rock
That's freestyle speakin' and you know I'm right

All you ladies interested in the words I speak
We will be rockin' like this every night of the week
And all you fellows tell the ladies "Don't Stop the Rock"
Because you know that we'll be jammin' all around the clock
I went to a party and what did I see
The girls were wearing leather skirts and see thru jeans
I asked the deejay to tell me what was going on
He said Freestyle's having a Freak-A-Thon :woohoo:

Guest · Nov 27, 2006

Spray both sides of the leaves with 1 tablespoon epsom salts per quart of water.

How many times?

icky420 · Nov 27, 2006

SEEDYNONO said:
i always seem to get terrible problems when i use general hydroponics ph up and down stuff. my tap water comes out too high so i ususally just use the down.

but what's the real truth here can ph up and down hurt more than it helps? does it kill bacteria or alter anything in the composition of the nutes (pbp), addatives (like lk or cal/mag), or soil medium itself (ffof)? someone must know.

i hate getting tips like 'use h2o2 to kill root rot' only to find out that the h2o2 killed ALL the bacteria in the soil and now the plant has no food.. needs to be transplanted to new soil. this should be mentioned to organic growers! i wonder now if this ph chemical stuff is the same way. i'm convinced its not helping my grow at all. everytime i use it more things go wrong. i made a foliar spray (which i still am not convinced actually works with mj either) with a very light (1ml per gallon) nute solution and ph adjusted it. sprayed the plants down during lights off and by the next day the leaves are all screwed up. definetely never using this ph adjuster stuff anymore. my plants are much happier in 7.0 ph environment than a 6.2-6.5 made that way by this orange acid.

maybe i'll mess with it if i can find an all organic one that is guaranteed safe for the plants. i won't even trust someone saying 'i use gh ph up and down without any problems' cause i have problems.

btw i ran my last grow without any ph adjusting and went back to it for my newest grow to see if i had different results. the grow done entirely with no adjustment was much healthier and hickup free.

I hear you on this ph UP/Dwn sht. I use Earth Juice, Says ORGANIC...BUT thats when I can say I started having any problems. But how could I think it was that? Everyone BALANCES there nutes why dont I have to? ya know...I thought it was basic knowldge and I was just missing something before when I never even tested PH..

What do you do when you make a nute mix using clean water out the tap at 7.1 and end up with a PH3.8 besides add PH UP all the way up to 6?? And please dont say bubble, because that never moved it much for me.

SEEDYNONO · Nov 27, 2006

its just weird to have a product that warns you not to let it come in contact with your skin.. but you can feed it to your soil's bacteria?

five0addict · Nov 27, 2006

what you dont get is your infact neutralizing your water. yes the things you use to ajust ph are corrosive but when you get the ph balanced it is safe.

It's workin it's way up my ladies

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