Hello, first post, first seeds. Kali China and Orient Express

Dear friends,
Hola amigos,


OK, here I am, total newbie finally overcoming the lurking mode. Please allow me to introduce myself to your friendly community as I am starting my very first grow.



I first came into contact with cannabis in the early 1980s and have been an on and off occasional consumer with no regular source in a country still in full prohibition mode. None of my peers share the interest except for a longtime friend who moved far away. So no, I am not very young any more.


As it happened, I am completely without stash since last June, which is OK for a while but obviously unacceptable in the long run. Buying from unknown source from strangers on the street is no option for me.


What comes in handy now is having a good wife who understands my secret passion and who actually gave me Jorge Cervantes “Cannabis Encyclopedia” for Christmas a couple years ago, that was definitely a surprise. I have read almost every chapter of that book.
She is OK with my trying for some homegrown and this is where I am finally at. Preparations took some time and I actually did have the practicing aspect in mind when I grew a bunch of chillies and tomatoes on our balcony the last summers (turned out really good).



I have also been reading on these forums for a couple of years now. Naturally, if you spend enough time on icmag you get to the Ace section and I must say I definitely got stuck. I am absolutely fascinated by the growing talent that is present here. Not only that, the warm and friendly atmosphere that is kept by all of you and especially dubi, as well as the level of support he provides, is unparalleled.


Now that I have been through most of the threads in the sticky section of this forum and through ALL of the strain info's on aceseeds.org, I have become completely hyped and absorbed by all these wonderful strains – even without ever tasting or growing one! I now feel I won’t live long enough to work myself through that catalog. But at the moment I have the feeling that’s what I have to do.


I decided to start systematically: with some Ace classics and move on from there. Recently acquired some Kali China, Orient Express and Zamaldelica. 5 pack fem seeds each. I recognize that Zamaldelica is not really for a beginner like me, especially in my small 60x60x160 tent, but it was available at the reseller where I picked up the seeds (I am a bit paranoid about mail ordering) despite them currently sold out at Ace’s. So I got them anyway for a later time and the first start is with Kali China and Orient Express. They got soaked in water for 6 hours and then put into their final containers immediately on November 30. Both poked through the soil on the 4th day and produced the second pair of leaves on the 8th day. So I guess I am still on track.


I know a million things can go wrong and I will probably mess it up at some point during this first take, but it has been fun so far. More on the grow later, this is just to say hello for now.


This may sound a bit weird, but it means something special to me to post my first message in the Ace forum on this site.



Have a good day and happy growing





This is a picture taken on day 7 after the seeds were put into the soil (unsprouted, just soaked for 6 h):

High & welcome! You might wanna cross post this to the Introduce Yourself subforum. https://www.icmag.com/ic/forumdisplay.php?f=5 No pressure though I really enjoyed doing coco in those airpots. I ended up in soil with cloth pots, because the cloth pots soak any over watering back into the bottom. But I really enjoyed those airpots. Since they are seedlings I would just water around the outside edge, so the roots want to spread out and find that moisture. Good luck!

Good luck with your growing journey. It does help to have an understanding wife. My wife, although not a smoker, is very accommodating to my needs and is also an avid ornamental gardener, so it helps tremendously.

Growing it yourself for your personal use is just the best way. You learn so much, and the product at the end is far superior to anything you will buy on the street. You get a real sense of satisfaction when you know you planted the seed for the bud that you are lovingly grinding up, enjoying it's intoxicating aromas as you roll it into a nice joint then inhale it's magical smoke.

Thanks everybody for the warm welcome. Watering around the edge makes a lot of sense to me, I will do that. At first, water came out from some of the air pot holes (I did fill the soil up above the top row of holes) when I did that, but I think the soil was still too dry and it seems to work better now since it is more moisted through.


I also cross referenced the thread in the introduction section


Here are some more infos about my setup:
Space: 60x60x160 tent (Homebox ambient)
Air: 12.5 cm Systemair LTI RVK Sileo 125E2 with a pk active carbon filter. The vent is rated at 220 m3/h and I felt it was way overkill for the small tent. I feared my plants drying out quickly and I also feared my wife's compliance drying out quickly because of the noise level, so I got a transformator to regulate the fan and it's now humming just nicely with about half the voltage. Definitely hearable, about like a loud computer, but not through a closed door. The temperature in the tent is now between 23 and 26 °C, humidity around 45%
Light: I went cheap here and found some (probably Chinese) SIL for E27 sockets, 25W, 8€ a piece in a fivepack. I got five "cool white" (6000-6500K) and five "warm white" (2800-3000K), so I can switch and mix as I like with a 7in1 E27 adapter.

I started out with one of the 25W bulbs directly above each seedling and have now already stocked up to 125W with the 7in1 adapter. The maximum would be 175W, but I could add more with additional bulbs and sockets of course. The plastic bulb diffusors from the LED bulbs came right off with some force, no tools needed. The perceived light intensity is insane.With the android app Light Lux Meter I measured about 35000 lux with just the one 25W LED above each seedling, now it's around 60000 or 65000 at leaf level, which is almost what I am measuring on my balcony on a bright day with the current winter sun.
Containers: I wasn't planning on the air pots, but I got them for a really good price and the guy at the shop recommended them, so I went for 2 of the 9L pots. I am only aiming for a very small harvest (I do not mind quality, of course) and smaller pots would have probably been enough, but I figured the system would be more stable with the 9L pots.

The soil I used is CompoSana "Quality Flower Soil" that states fertilized for 12 weeks. I have had good experience with this soil for my other plants, but feared it might be to hot for the seedlings, so I only filled up the pots with that about 3/4 full and added 5 L of CompoSana soil for seedlings and herbs on the top part. A little less for the Orient Express, a little more for the Kali China, since OE reportedly can use more nutrients. Let's see how that works. My intention was not having to transplant the popped seeds, seedlings or young plants and have them in their final container right from the start. That's why I only soaked them for 6 hours and then put them right into the moist seedling soil. I know it is not the usual way of doing it, so far it seems to work.
The light is on 18/6 of course.

hi common sense and welcome on board, Viel Glück for your first run and always remember, weed is unkraut, less is more.

Welcome! As a sort-of-newbie myself (with only about six years' growing experience off and on), I'm here to tell you that you can make lots and lots of mistakes and still wind up with bud that will make you very happy. Best of luck with your grow, and enjoy the journey.

last time I ran orient express in soil, she was a hungry gal, so plan on feeding her and expect her lower leaves to start to lighten up at some point, especially with only a 9L pot. Personally, I like to up-pot about a week before flip so that she has room to expand her roots and enough food to accommodate her stretch.

thanks everybody for their comments, they are very reassuring.


We now have 7 days after they stuck their heads through the ground and 11 days after I put the seeds in the soil. How is vegetative time counted officially? I could not find that information.
Orient Express seems to be a little faster, here are some pics:


Orient Express:



Kali China:



both stems were a little weak for the leaves the last day and bent under the weight, but seem to gain strength

first picture from last post is Kali China of course, sorry

Hi Common Sense. Welcome. Your seed starts look goos. Don't worry abut 'difficult strains'. It's a weed and it will grow. You have to be way off to hurt it and a few tricks will make it a cut above. I'll be glad to help any time. Not an expert but have been growing for a few years now. Can you tell us what country?

Common Sense said:

thanks everybody for their comments, they are very reassuring.


We now have 7 days after they stuck their heads through the ground and 11 days after I put the seeds in the soil. How is vegetative time counted officially? I could not find that information.
Orient Express seems to be a little faster, here are some pics:


Orient Express:
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=81844&pictureid=1994878&thumb=1]View Image[/URL] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=81844&pictureid=1994877&thumb=1]View Image[/URL] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=81844&pictureid=1994876&thumb=1]View Image[/URL]


Kali China:
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=81844&pictureid=1994875&thumb=1]View Image[/URL] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=81844&pictureid=1994874&thumb=1]View Image[/URL]


both stems were a little weak for the leaves the last day and bent under the weight, but seem to gain strength

Click to expand...

OE happens to one of Dubi's favourite smoke

You're doing fine, Common Sense, and your choice of strains to start with is excellent. It was noted above that dubi likes OE a lot; he also considers Kali China to be the 1 strain he'd like to have on the desert island Huge favorite of mine in all its crosses, too. Good luck and welcome aboard

Zeez said:

... Can you tell us what country?

Click to expand...

Well, I guess it is safe to say that I also posted a short newcomer note in the German section of the forum


Thanks to everybody else who commented! The small ladies are doing fine.

As for the "less is more", I recognize that. I do have a fairly extensive background as an aquatic gardener, as in fresh water aquarium plant care. There, I had a phase where I thought I need to go the high-tech route (HQI (MH) lighting, pH controlled CO2 injection, undergravel heating, RO water, expensive fertilizers...), spent a lot of money and time on that stuff. This works and can give spectacular results, but only if all components are finely tuned in like an orchestra. If one component is off, the system derails.
In the end I used tap water, cheap CF lights, no CO2, a much smaller pump and an army of Malaysian trumpet snails. Harvested buckets full of plants (throwaway and giveaway), the trick was simply to use the plant species and genetics that thrived under these conditions. (too bad now: I gave away the high quality pH meter with the refillable electrode)

Common Sense said:

As for the "less is more", I recognize that. I do have a fairly extensive background as an aquatic gardener, as in fresh water aquarium plant care. There, I had a phase where I thought I need to go the high-tech route (HQI (MH) lighting, pH controlled CO2 injection, undergravel heating, RO water, expensive fertilizers...), spent a lot of money and time on that stuff. This works and can give spectacular results, but only if all components are finely tuned in like an orchestra. If one component is off, the system derails.
In the end I used tap water, cheap CF lights, no CO2, a much smaller pump and an army of Malaysian trumpet snails. Harvested buckets full of plants (throwaway and giveaway), the trick was simply to use the plant species and genetics that thrived under these conditions. (too bad now: I gave away the high quality pH meter with the refillable electrode)

Click to expand...

Based on the above anecdote, not to mention your username, it sounds like you have all the experience you need to direct your new horticultural project to success! Complications can be fun and rewarding, but simple gets the goods every time.

Welcome into the fold, Common Sense.

Just wanted to offer a note of encouragement by saying that your tent is the same size as one of my tents, and I'm able to grow out pure sativas in it, so it's a perfectly acceptable garden size and it will do you a lot of good once you get it dialed in. Here's an example... This is a single Golden Tiger plant at harvest:

Click Here

I got somewhere around 8 ounces from that one plant. It did require some intensive training, but that will come with some time. Again, I just want to encourage you and welcome you. I grew out Orient Express once, and it was really fantastic. My favorite was the Vietnamese Black pheno. It ended up suffering from botyritis because of how massive the main cola was, so next time I would top it and shoot for multiple, smaller colas rather than the one gigantic one.

Hello hush, thank you for the welcome. I have been a quiet admirer of your (and of many others, some replied on this thread) grows in this forum for a while now and remember that Golden Tiger SCOG picture. That is truly impressive. GT is definitely on my list for the future. I am not sure what I would do with 8 ounces, though ;-) I have been more in the 1-3 grams per month range - if I could get ahold of something. I rarely smoke, however and the little Crafty vaporizer by S&B that I use goes a long way.

Update 2 weeks

Update 2 weeks

13 days have passed since the two plants appeared above the ground.
I had to replace one of the SIL bulbs, it kept shutting down to a low light flicker, apparently a thermal problem. These 25W LED get pretty hot. The (ceramic?, plastic?) cooling sockets definitely get too hot to hold. I have 5 of them in the 7in1 socket at the moment. 4 x cool white, 1 x warm white.
25°C 50% humidity

I am starting to have questions.
1. do I need a fan to create some additional air movement and strengthen the plants? I have the feeling the actual air exchange in the tent is sufficient. Temp is about 19°C before the lights go on and go up to 25°. Humidity stays fairly constant between 45 and 50%.



2. When to switch to 12/12h? This is probably more complicated. I am now at roughly 2 weeks of vegetative time (if it is correct to count from the time the seedlings came through the soil).
The "problem" I have is that I will be out of town for two weeks in the second half of March. I assume it would be smart to harvest before I go away (if I get this grow that far...). How to time this so the harvest does neither rot away (put in jars too moist without air exchange) or dry out too much?
I do not need to maximize yield. If I get 10 to 20 g good quality bud from each plant I would be super happy.
Would putting the harvest in the freezer for the two weeks and then proceed with the drying/curing when I return be an option?
This is all far from now, but I guess I need to consider this when timing the switch.


Thanks for your ideas

Well if it were me I'd want it cured down to 62% in the jar and stable at that humidity before I went away for the two weeks. This is my personal preference. That way I know it's going to be the best quality smoke and no need to complicate things by freezing etc.

Working on a deadline of 16th March and counting back, without knowing your setup such as room temps and humidity, I would plan on:

- Three weeks minimum for a dry and cure. Let's say 7 - 10 days to hang the plant and 10 - 14 to cure it in the jar burping once or twice daily

- That means latest harvest day would be February 24th 2020 (three weeks prior to 16th March)

- OE is the longer finisher at 8-10 weeks according to the ACE
website, so allowing for the longer finishing pheno, and considering you're growing from seed (and not, for example, clones from a mature mother) counting back 10 weeks from February 24th gives a date of 16th December to flip them. So if it were me I'd consider flipping them very soon.

Keep in mind that a lot of those figures are rubbery, for example your plants might finish in 8 or 9 weeks instead of 10, you might also only need to factor in 2 weeks instead of 3 for the drying and curing, and so on. If you end up on the earlier side of things, you'll have a couple of weeks spare to enjoy smoking / vaping before you go away.

This is only how I would work it out, but there multiple ways of getting around this being-out-of-town roadblock. It's up to you to come up with the best solution that suits you.

Ultimately it's also an example of the nature of what it is to grow plants, especially when you are not running the same strains from clones at the same time over and over again.

We have to accept that we never know precisely how long things will take, so we try to find the best balance between all factors and constraints, be they yield (time in veg and training of the plant), plant numbers (incl. fem vs reg), stretch and height restrictions, optimal harvest time, dry and cure, and our own personal commitments.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Common Sense said:

I am starting to have questions.
1. do I need a fan to create some additional air movement and strengthen the plants? I have the feeling the actual air exchange in the tent is sufficient. Temp is about 19°C before the lights go on and go up to 25°. Humidity stays fairly constant between 45 and 50%.



2. When to switch to 12/12h? This is probably more complicated. I am now at roughly 2 weeks of vegetative time (if it is correct to count from the time the seedlings came through the soil).
The "problem" I have is that I will be out of town for two weeks in the second half of March. I assume it would be smart to harvest before I go away (if I get this grow that far...). How to time this so the harvest does neither rot away (put in jars too moist without air exchange) or dry out too much?
I do not need to maximize yield. If I get 10 to 20 g good quality bud from each plant I would be super happy.
Would putting the harvest in the freezer for the two weeks and then proceed with the drying/curing when I return be an option?
This is all far from now, but I guess I need to consider this when timing the switch.


Thanks for your ideas

Click to expand...

On the 10th you said, quantity and not quality
A few days after,today,quality till mid March?
What exactly is your question?