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How Les is Currently Germinating Old Seeds

Lester Beans

Frequent Flyer
Veteran
I posted this in Mate Dave's thread but decided to make a thread so I could find it again and modify the thread as I learn. This is how I attempt to germinate old improperly stored or just hard to crack seeds. In plain English because I'm a simple farmer and speak from only my experiences, which most came from just growing all plants for years and the valuable knowledge I have gained from this wonderful site. Thanks Gypsy!

Disclaimer. For my science education, I went to the University of In the Field, where I feel I was out standing, but that's just me! So take this as you will! If it helps cool, if not I can re read it and keep myself honest.

Of course it's so easy with newer seeds. Just plant in soil, add water, warm, and light. Done. Who can't do that?

I think more the point here is getting old seed to not just crack a white tail, but successfully turn into a plant.

I have been working hard on trying to germinate some old cannabis seeds and some old vegetable seeds, mainly tomato.

My recent failures lead me to believe non viable seed is just that, she ain't gonna go. But I wanted to know that I did everything I could without a lab or chemicals. I always save some of those "dead" seeds, the future...who knows?

First read Chimera's method of starting seed. I can't find the link, sorry. He is the smartest dude I "know thru the intrawebs".

Here are some things I have tried.

First thing I to do is to get the seeds in the fridge for no less than 48 hours. I store my seeds in the fridge, those always pop so not the point of this. It's the seeds someone found in a garage and say 1972 on them that we want to work on.

So into the fridge they go. I like a week, to make sure they are fully chilled, in the dark. This is in my seed fridge which doesn't get opened often. If in regular fridge, put in light proof container.

From there I wash the seeds. Chimera's seed starting method employs multiple washes. This I wasn't doing. I was washing once. I feel as many washes as I can stand doing is worth it. The better washed seed seems to actually keep growing far better than the lightly washed seeds that sometimes germinate a white tail and then rot. Makes sense right. So don't be lazy and skip washing, it really makes a difference.

I use a small strainer. Obviously the mesh is fine enough so there is no way the seed can get through under pressure. Sounds dumb but it happens. Double screened strainer I found at Dollar store. I wouldn't be going through all this for seeds that weren't rare or valuable to preservation.

I blast them with the sink sprayer and swirl them around as long as I can take it. 3-5 min is as far as I can usually get haha.

Then a soak in bleach water or some people use h2o2. I don't like h2o2 because they used to call me Mr. Whitefinger. Y'all know what I mean.

A rocks glass of tap water and 5 ml bleach. Soak for an hour.

Back to the strainer for another wash.

Now I pat them dry in a clean paper towel. With gloves on and a very clean pair of needle nose pliers I ever so slightly crack the seed as little as possible. It take a few to get the hang of it. Someone makes a tool for this, looked bitchin'.

Once cracked back to another wash, stainer, tap water through sprayer.

Now directly into a rocks glass with tap water and a drop or two Botarnicare pbp grow. I don't like Super thrive, Vit B, etc because there is too much concentrated nitrogen. A few drops of base nutrient is fine.

Soak overnight or 12 hours.

From here I wash again and with gloves I sow 1 each into a rockwool cube (previously charged), seed starter mix, and straight earthworm castings or high quality compost. These are in a flat, on heat mat, under dome.

You need the heat mat.

Now we wait. I feel after all of this if they go they go. If not I did what I could. I've tried some Ga3 and such but results weren't any different.

Results are usually one of the three medias will work. The hardest oldest deadest stubborn seeds I have had success with have come from the earthworm castings sowed seed, on the heat mat. Temp 85-88.

A Member on ICMAG was sowing in earthworm castings, credit goes to them for that solid gold tip, I wish I could remember who you are.

I believe the living organisms in the castings combined with the emergence from the cold, super decontaminated, previously cracked, nutrient hydrated seed, clean water, heat, and light is the fairest shot for that seed to become a plant. Basically high quality artificial nature my friends. Zero investment needed, all it takes is time.

Once they crack and form cotlydons I baby the heck out of them, venting the dome, removing it completely once a day, etc. This you can do as you please.

A word about the environment. The germination area is a box I made. Cardboard or a tent works. Big enough for a flat with a dome and a cfl light right above the dome. Keep the box in the 80's which it does with the heat mat and the light. Vent if gets too hot.

A couple things I avoid.

Paper towel method. Sure it works and is great for fresh seed. I just don't do it with old seed. I believe seed needs air. Even under a dome there is more air than a ziplock. I just don't like the variables of dark wet airtight environment for a living organism.

Scuffing. I just think with the amount of washing I'm doing, if I scuff I'm going to be making the seed rougher and harder to get clean. And how do I sterilize the scuffing device? Cracking seems quicker, cleaner, and importantly easier.

I can add some pics and links later, I just got baked with my coffee and decided to blurt this out. It is spring and popping seeds is on my mind!

Very special thank you to all the ICMAG family who contributed to this over the years and especially Chimera!
 

Shmavis

Being-in-the-world
I've seen Chimera's method reposted a few times but I don't think it ever includes the additional reference/research links he provided in the original share. So here it is:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7826710&postcount=57

I plan to try to pop 75 Ancestral Skunk #1 seeds come early July. Thanks Lester for the tips! I especially like the idea of cracking them with pliers. Think I will give that a whirl.

Best of luck to all who are trying to pop those old gems!
 

thailer

Well-known member
the guy who made the seed cracker calls himself Woodshed and he is on instagram. i don't know how much they sell for currently but last i heard was $40. everyone who bought one said their germinating problems were over but everyone was germinating new seed. its like a nutcracker that uses a screw to tighten till you hear the pop. it holds the seed in a position that it cracks without breaking.

when i've added ewc to my potting soil for germinating seeds, sometimes the soil gets really hard on the top and i find the germinated seed with the tail poking out still in the soil. i've waited several days and they still won't pop. It just happened to some seeds i was really hoping to get all five to pop. are you using fresh homemade castings or buying it bagged? thanks!
 

Shmavis

Being-in-the-world
the guy who made the seed cracker calls himself Woodshed and he is on instagram. i don't know how much they sell for currently but last i heard was $40. everyone who bought one said their germinating problems were over but everyone was germinating new seed. its like a nutcracker that uses a screw to tighten till you hear the pop. it holds the seed in a position that it cracks without breaking.

when i've added ewc to my potting soil for germinating seeds, sometimes the soil gets really hard on the top and i find the germinated seed with the tail poking out still in the soil. i've waited several days and they still won't pop. It just happened to some seeds i was really hoping to get all five to pop. are you using fresh homemade castings or buying it bagged? thanks!

I don't know anything about Instagram. Do you just find the guy on there to arrange a private sale, or do you somehow purchase through there? I mean, are all the details there about how it functions, looks, etc.?
 

thailer

Well-known member
I don't know anything about Instagram. Do you just find the guy on there to arrange a private sale, or do you somehow purchase through there? I mean, are all the details there about how it functions, looks, etc.?

i haven't ordered from him but i went to his instagram to see if there's a website and there isn't. you would have to sign up to instagram and send him a message. he has posts about people sending him messages, called a DM (direct mail) over there. says he takes paypal. his full name is @woodshed13

He was sharing details on how it functions when he first released it but it's been out in the market for so long, it basically sells itself. I'm sure there's some pics and videos if you scroll down his page back for past posts. wish i could be of better help but i don't follow him. just heard about him and know people who've bought it and liked it.
 

Shmavis

Being-in-the-world
i haven't ordered from him but i went to his instagram to see if there's a website and there isn't. you would have to sign up to instagram and send him a message. he has posts about people sending him messages, called a DM (direct mail) over there. says he takes paypal. his full name is @woodshed13

He was sharing details on how it functions when he first released it but it's been out in the market for so long, it basically sells itself. I'm sure there's some pics and videos if you scroll down his page back for past posts. wish i could be of better help but i don't follow him. just heard about him and know people who've bought it and liked it.

Greatly appreciate the info. And help. I will check into it. Very interested in seeing it. If still around that same price point I may end up getting one. If so I will report back on its efficacy.
 

thailer

Well-known member
Greatly appreciate the info. And help. I will check into it. Very interested in seeing it. If still around that same price point I may end up getting one. If so I will report back on its efficacy.

just don't use facebook to sign up or link your account. it will show people certain things on facebook. one friend didn't realize and got quite the scare. i keep mine separate.
 

Chunkypigs

passing the gas
Veteran
I made one of those seed crackers with an inch slice off a 2x4 then drill two holes like you made for a pipe in junior high. Screw a #10-32 screw down the small hole and put seed under screw in the big hole, apply pressure.

Dude on IG is building something strong enough to crack a black walnut, balsa wood is strong enough to crack weed seeds lol.

Make one for free in 90 seconds.

Check out how giant pumpkin growers start seeds. https://www.bigpumpkins.com/ViewArticle.asp?id=66

Gotta remove the s in the https for that link to work, yet another reason nobody uses ICmag anymore...
 

aridbud

automeister
ICMag Donor
Veteran
After seeds have been damp, sterilized sewing needle to penetrate shell helps, soaking in diluted food grade hydo perox and a dash of mycorrhizal inoculant.
 

Shmavis

Being-in-the-world
just don't use facebook to sign up or link your account. it will show people certain things on facebook. one friend didn't realize and got quite the scare. i keep mine separate.

No worries. This is the extent of my “social media” memberships. ;) I was able to google the name and see pictures without joining. Pretty slick looking. Looks built to last. I have a friend with an account inquiring about current pricing and availability. Seems a reasonable price for something that should last me the rest of my seed popping years. Especially considering I wouldn't use it for fresh seeds. Thanks again.

I made one of those seed crackers with an inch slice off a 2x4 then drill two holes like you made for a pipe in junior high. Screw a #10-32 screw down the small hole and put seed under screw in the big hole, apply pressure.

Dude on IG is building something strong enough to crack a black walnut, balsa wood is strong enough to crack weed seeds lol.

Make one for free in 90 seconds.

Check out how giant pumpkin growers start seeds. https://www.bigpumpkins.com/ViewArticle.asp?id=66

Gotta remove the s in the https for that link to work, yet another reason nobody uses ICmag anymore...

Now that I have seen the cracker, I have a better idea of what you are saying - in junior high we just grabbed a toilet paper tube or empty can, lol - and like the idea. But was wondering about sterility. I suppose you could put a removable insert of stainless steel in there to crack upon, or some such surface that's cleanable.

Just not sure about cracking precious seeds on treated wood. But I guess if the seed itself is cleaned/sterilized after, it shouldn’t be an issue.

Whether I buy one or make one, I like the idea.
 

Lester Beans

Frequent Flyer
Veteran
I am going to prepare some really old seed today and see if we can't get them to go.

From 1996 skunk, blueberry.

Some old Affie, Zamal, and some ancestral skunks

My wife had a pill bottle of seeds from when we were just out of high school. Most likely seed from my herb back then. Have had zero success so far.

Ah man, just realized I am completely out of castings. May have to use compost. Castings place is quite drive. Insert cursing here.

Sprouting seed in compost experimient anyone? Haha!

.
 
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Crazy Chester

Well-known member
I am going to prepare some really old seed today and see if we can't get them to go.

From 1996 skunk, blueberry.

Some old Affie, Zamal, and some ancestral skunks

My wife had a pill bottle of seeds from when we were just out of high school. Most likely seed from my herb back then. Have had zero success so far.

Ah man, just realized I am completely out of castings. May have to use compost. Castings place is quite drive. Insert cursing here.

Sprouting seed in compost experimient anyone? Haha!

.
I'd like to see a casting old seeds in compost experiment, Lester!
 

Zeez

---------------->
ICMag Donor
If the seed shells appear to be stuck on the cotyledons, at what point is it time to physically remove it. Is there a best surgical technique for removing it, like maybe cut the shell where it clamshells together? I know for a fact that just grabbing it with hemostats is a bad idea. Real delicate.
 

Crazy Chester

Well-known member
If the seed shells appear to be stuck on the cotyledons, at what point is it time to physically remove it. Is there a best surgical technique for removing it, like maybe cut the shell where it clamshells together? I know for a fact that just grabbing it with hemostats is a bad idea. Real delicate.


It IS real delicate, but, the clamshell is not attached to the actual cotyledons, it is attached to a thin membrane on the cotyledons - the trick is to loosen that membrane and then the clamshell will pull off of the cotyledons. It all depends how firmly the membrane is still attached to the cotyledons - sometimes the clamshell comes off and sometimes you just end up ripping the top of the seedling off and it's over...
 
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Zeez

---------------->
ICMag Donor
The times I tried to remove them, they were hard. Old seed.
I ended up with a stump a couple times on seeds that were important. The cotyledons came right off.
 

Crazy Chester

Well-known member
The times I tried to remove them, they were hard. Old seed.
I ended up with a stump a couple times on seeds that were important. The cotyledons came right off.


I'm sorry for you Zeez - if only there were a way to soften the membrane's grip on the cotyledons. Perhaps manually slathering on some coconut oil (maybe with a q-tip) and letting it sit for a few minutes would help?
 

Betterhaff

Well-known member
Veteran
If the seeds have germinated and are still holding on to their seed coats, gentle misting can help with the removal process. I mist, wait a few minutes and use a toothpick to try and nudge things off. May take a few mistings and nudging with a few breaks in between. It can be a slow and delicate process but you need to get the membrane off.
 

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