Does a Male or Female Pass On More genetics to Their Offspring?

Burro Johnson · Feb 19, 2018

My question is quite simple.

If you want more of ones genetics in a cross do you use male or female?

I would love to hear and see your experience with males and females that have dominated in a cross.

How they dominated and what genetics were passed on, bud structure, leaf shape, smell, effect and potency.

Don't be afraid to show pictures.

brown_thumb · Feb 19, 2018

I'm curious about this too.

RELATED: I'm also curious how/why crossing the same strains (S1F + S2M vs. S1M + S2F) can be different. One example I can think of is Ace Seeds Malawi + Panama vs. Panama + Malawi. I don't understand the significance.

Burt · Feb 19, 2018

According to people I admire like JLP, the female passes on more traits in crosses.
Since you never know until you rest the offspring, I’ve always kept an open mind and not committed to hard and fast rules
The significance of the naming system is the following
Female X male
Since males and females contribute different qualities, it makes sense to go in both directions when crossing and creating new hybrids

Dropped Cat · Feb 20, 2018

The first cross is 50/50, and many agree males and females
pass their traits equally.

The next mating of the F1's to make F2 shuffles the genetics
and you get the variety that you select for your goal.

Much female smoked and tested leaves one to factor the lean
to female traits, as male traits are much less tested, until
prodigy.

Takes a few grows to filter out the unwanted traits.

Some breeders reverse males to accurately experience the
potential.

Good thread.

Natural high · Feb 20, 2018

It makes absolutely no difference which parent in a cross is male and which is female. The genetic potential of the offspring is the same either way. The only practical difference is the resultant seed size may vary depending on which parent is the female, and this is due to the size of the calyx on the female.

The phenotypes seen in the offspring from any cross or pollination are the result of the dominant alleles inherited from each parent.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:

baduy · Feb 20, 2018

This question keeps being asked because of a DJ Short statement about different traits being passed depending on male and female. Always sounded like total BS to me.
If a desired trait is recessive it will keep recessive wether you use a male or a female, same goes for the dominant traits. If a pure Landrace is crossed to a polyhybrid it will most likely dominate in the f2 be it male or female.

Gypsy Nirvana · Feb 20, 2018

Yeah, agreed....its pretty much a crap-shoot, all dependent on what alleles inherited are dominant or recessive from either male or female.

WaterFarmFan · Feb 20, 2018

Natural high said:
It makes absolutely no difference which parent in a cross is male and which is female. The genetic potential of the offspring is the same either way. The only practical difference is the resultant seed size may vary depending on which parent is the female, and this is due to the size of the calyx on the female.

The phenotypes seen in the offspring from any cross or pollination are the result of the dominant alleles inherited from each parent.

Hope this helps.

This sounds right. To answer the OP question, it will vary by strain. For some parental stock or lines, a female might be dominant, and other strains it could be male. In reality, most of today's strains are a mash up of poly-hybrids, that can only be analyzed for traits by growing out the offspring and sorting through massive variation looking for clues.

It seems that some strains also just have more dominant alleles than others. Karma has an older strain called Dominator, that he said was named because, no matter what it was crossed with, it's genetics would dominate the offspring.

Del_9_THC · Feb 20, 2018

Neither passes on more.

50% of the genes come from the female and 50% from the male.
Traits may be derived from both the genes and the environment. (I.e. Similar genotypes may exhibit different phenotypes, given the particular conditions.)
As mentioned by other posters, the dominant traits alleles, will tend to,be passed by the gender which has them.

Most of us kill off the males early (or just after pollen is collected if you breed), and so we don't watch the males characteristics. So the characteristics are observed in females, what we want are nice buds....(however you describe nice, potent, frosty,,terpene profile, dense, high-yielding, etc. )

WaterFarmFan · Feb 20, 2018

brown_thumb said:
I'm curious about this too.

RELATED: I'm also curious how/why crossing the same strains (S1F + S2M vs. S1M + S2F) can be different. One example I can think of is Ace Seeds Malawi + Panama vs. Panama + Malawi. I don't understand the significance.

Malawi x Panama is a a straight hybrid between the Old Malawi Killer, and the more refined Panama parental plants from latest generations, creating a 100% sativa F1 hybrid that combines excellent sativa genetics from Central Africa and America. In this F1, Malawi dominates with its structure and character, producing vigorous and high yielding sativas, which bring to the limit the best floral qualities of the killer Malawis: ultra resinous plants with huge trichomes, of very dense, resinous flowers of overpowering effect, where Panama contributes to the hybrid with its elaborated and complex lemony and incensey terpene profile. The effect is complex, trippy, crazy and introverted. Very deep and long lasting, both mentally and physically. Only for the harder and more experienced sativa travelers. Malawi x Panama produces consistently THC concentrations between 21 and 26%, and one of the most potent sativa alchemies.

Panama x Malawi is a straight hybrid among the best, most refined, stable and highly worked parental plants from these 2 incredible sativa strains. It is a direct cross between the Panama Goddess (10th generation), which we consider without any doubt as the best and most complete Panama parental plant we have, combined with the New Malawi Killer, which also adds the best highly worked qualities of our Malawi, creating a 100 % sativa F1 hybrid that combines excellent sativa genetics from Central Africa and America. In this F1, the Panama Goddess mother clearly dominates with its desirable structure and character, with its vigor, adaptability, versatility, great yield, and with its unbeatable central american sativa personality, where the New Malawi Killer adds even higher resin production, potency and complexity to the effect.

From Ace's website above. MxP uses Old Killer Malawi and a recent selfed Panama (but not Goddess?). PxM uses Panama Goddess and New Killer Malawi. So not apples to apples but I thought relevant perhaps.

WaterFarmFan · Feb 20, 2018

Del_9_THC said:
Neither passes on more.

50% of the genes come from the female and 50% from the male.
Traits may be derived from both the genes and the environment. (I.e. Similar genotypes may exhibit different phenotypes, given the particular conditions.)
As mentioned by other posters, the dominant traits alleles, will tend to,be passed by the gender which has them.

Most of us kill off the males early (or just after pollen is collected if you breed), and so we don't watch the males characteristics. So the characteristics are observed in females, what we want are nice buds....(however you describe nice, potent, frosty,,terpene profile, dense, high-yielding, etc. )

I think what people, like me, are confusing is the dominant traits expressing themselves versus the transfer of genetic material. It seems logical that is 50:50, but also given that no two females or males from any realistic poly line have the same genetics, is it possible that dominant genetic material could be passed better by a male versus female? I am not talking about fruit flys but cannabis. Basically that a superior male or males could be found in a pack with average or below females, or vice-versa depending on strain.

WaterFarmFan · Feb 20, 2018

Del_9_THC said:
As mentioned by other posters, the dominant traits alleles, will tend to,be passed by the gender which has them.

I think maybe another way to phrase my thoughts above is that cannabis has so much natural variety that a superior specimen can be selected from a female or male in a line. It is the basis of natural selection. So, I guess the consensus is that, if a male and female plants are homozygous, than they would pass traits along equally, but is that how it works with non-homozygous?

sourpuss · Feb 20, 2018

Del_9_THC said:
Neither passes on more.

50% of the genes come from the female and 50% from the male.
Traits may be derived from both the genes and the environment. (I.e. Similar genotypes may exhibit different phenotypes, given the particular conditions.)
As mentioned by other posters, the dominant traits alleles, will tend to,be passed by the gender which has them.

Most of us kill off the males early (or just after pollen is collected if you breed), and so we don't watch the males characteristics. So the characteristics are observed in females, what we want are nice buds....(however you describe nice, potent, frosty,,terpene profile, dense, high-yielding, etc. )

I agree with this and most other answers but its about traits and what gets passed down. You cant tell what traits a male has till you cross it and test the offspring. With a female you can test it in all aspects and will have an idea of what might get passed down. Without testing a male shows you size vigour shape of plant and floral clusters smell sometimes resin,

browntrout · Feb 20, 2018

DJSHORT
"The Blueberry (among others) was discovered and stabilized from an f1 cross between the P1 parents of a female Juicy Fruit Thai or a female Purple Thai and a male Afghani Indica. Thus there were two possible routes to essentially the same finished product. Blue Velvet and Flo seem more accessible via the Purple Thai route, while Blue Moonshine seems more accessible through the Juicy Fruit lineage. That is, there is a higher probability of occurence of the specific traits which I'm seeking, and so they're easier to "find".

Oddly enough, the opposite cross (female Afghani indica crossed with pollen from male Thai sativa) was not nearly as interesting. The f1's from this cross were more leafy and less desirable. They were also more hermaphroditic and subsequent breeding revealed them to be less desirable. It has been my observation that in a successful cross, the (usually female) sativa contributes the type of aroma and flavour, while the (usually male) indica contributes the amount of aroma and flavour to the prodigy. So far this observation has proven fruitful."

It's possible there is some truth when working with pure indica/pure sativa crosses or at least pure afghan/ pure thai genetics.

However if anyone has tried Cannacopia genetics (Clone only's crossed with a special Deep CHunk Male) then you might realize how true this statement really could be: "It has been my observation that in a successful cross, the (usually female) sativa contributes the type of aroma and flavour, while the (usually male) indica contributes the amount of aroma and flavour to the prodigy." Having tried a few of the cannacopia xxx X Deep CHunk male crosses, the mother flavour is untouched but only boosted and enhanced in most progeny phenotypes.

djonkoman · Feb 20, 2018

the genetics pass on equally.
both parents give half of the genes. there is no selection which genes get passed on based on gender.

there is only one thing unequal about the sexes in genes given trough, which are the genes outside the nucleus. mitochondria and chloroplasts have their own dna, and are directly inherited from the mother(the egg-cell is bigger and includes these organelles, while the sperm is small and has very little outside of a nucleus).
but while those genes are probably important for certain functions, I don't expect any genes related to potency or smell to be part of the chloroplast/mitochondria dna. that dna contains stuff directly related to the functioning of the chloroplasts or mitochondria.

Natural high · Feb 20, 2018

djonkoman said:
mitochondria[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] and chloroplasts have their own dna, and are directly inherited from the mother... t[/FONT]hat dna contains stuff directly related to the functioning of the chloroplasts or mitochondria.

Good point. As they are the energy and food factory's of the cells, in some instances mitochondrial and chloroplast DNA may have an influence on a plant's vigour or lack of it. In this case the sex of the parent in a cross could influence the overall vigour of the offspring.

brown_thumb · Feb 20, 2018

WaterFarmFan said:
From Ace's website above. MxP uses Old Killer Malawi and a recent selfed Panama (but not Goddess?). PxM uses Panama Goddess and New Killer Malawi. So not apples to apples but I thought relevant perhaps.

Ahh... my mistake to assume the parental phenotypes were precisely the same. Thank you for the clarification.

I've learned a couple of things from this thread.

Kankakee · Feb 20, 2018

The plant is constantly recording inputs from environment then over time these inputs become “ fixed “ within its hereditary construct over generations.

The environment will allow the very best possibility regarding what’s available in each seed if it’s perfect.

Sexual diversity is not needed BUT you can’t have advancement in evolution without it. You can’t cross two female plants of different lines together unless this is done with a male. This speaks volumes all in itself regarding importance.

The best plants always show themselves visually as selection trumps everything from one generation onto the next.

Just as a frosty looking plant may look good in a picture, but as we can tell and what has been proven time and again this frosty plant may not give you the same effects as a strain from s. America with no bag appeal..... so selecting towards this is foolhardy if judging a weak male in many other attributes except the camera loving frost.

The very best plants always stick out in front of your eyes for vigor and structure etc.... dominance. And making assumptions without the very best environment can cloud judgement as the plant may not be showing potential. It can adapt if inputs are lacking but this will take generations ....

* edit- you can also find camera ugly plants across the USA inside and outdoors that produce better effects than the frost covered sister plants within the same line . Did not wanna side track discussion by introducing natural habitat in s. America not producing same results when latitudes drastically change

Koondense · Feb 20, 2018

brown_thumb said:
Ahh... my mistake to assume the parental phenotypes were precisely the same. Thank you for the clarification.

I've learned a couple of things from this thread.

Yes, the crosses are not made with same parents:

Malawi x Panama
Old Malawi Killer crossed with our best Panama parental plants from latest generations.

Panama x Malawi
Panama Goddess (F10) x New Malawi Killer (P3)

So the first one is kind of more open pollination cross with more parent plants involved(reversed female plants(in fem ver.) and males(in reg ver.)), while the second is a kind of classic F1 fem hybrid with a male being a reversed female(Panama Goddess selection).

Cheers

Kankakee · Feb 20, 2018

And as we now understand plants communicate.

Plants that have a hard time finding other plants of same species with turn hermaphroditic sooooo...

Is it possible that killing off of males in a closed environment will actually create this tendency??? Hmmmm so many questions must be considered before making concrete assumptions. Would help explain the hermaphroditism in Thai as man eradicated jungles because of politics and also look at other species around us regarding male dominance....

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