Designing a dual 150-watt CMH cab

A few weeks ago my neighbor was throwing away an old coral reef light. I asked if I could have it, and he said yes and that it worked he just upgraded to LED. This light was six feet tall and had three 150-watt MH and eight 39-watt T5HO. I took it home and stripped it apart. I then bench tested the components and sure enough they worked. Well that got the old juices flowing and I thought about building a cab with these lights.

I've been reading a couple of vertical threads and decided to give vertical a shot. My first thoughts were to do a vertical tree grow using the T5HO lining the walls around the plant, but the design was getting too complex. Next I thought about doing a stadium with the three bulbs hanging down the middle, but wasn't sure I could cool it. Then it hit me, two cabs with the 150-watt on a flip-flop. After doing a bit of research I found out that my ballast will work with a CMH bulb, and I finally settled on the Phillips Master Color protected bulb at 3000 K.

The next step was to find a place to put it. I have all my cabs in a spare room that I've always called my workshop. I have a futon in there I never use, so that is where I will put it. And, since it is in my workshop, I decided a workbench would be perfect!

Time to fire Sketchup and do some modeling. The overall dimensions are about 75" W x 30" D x 35" H.



Each grow chamber is about a 30" cube. In the center are two drawers that can be used to store nutrients or as a drying chamber. Also in the center are the ventilation and electronics.



The grow is going to be a vertical coliseum. The coliseum us broken into three sections that hold 10 plants each for a total of 60 plants. The coliseum is on a lazy Susan to allow me to easily move each section to the front.

Ventilation

Ventilation

Since it is vertical, I chose to use a 7" Honeywell fan with three speeds. This will be directly below the bulb blowing up and should act as a cool tube. The main extraction fan with a carbon filter hides in the center console behind the drawers.



Air comes in from the bottom back of each grow chamber, it is then pulled through the light trap, through the filter, then pushed up into the electronics section and out the back. I chose a S&Park TD-100 but the design can accommodate a 4" Vortex if the TD-100 isn't up to the task.

Light usage

Light usage

All of my previous cabs were designed to fit the grow in the cab. This time I'm building a cab around the grow.

This shows the coliseum and the light distribution. The outer sphere is 12" from the bulb while the inner sphere is 8". Each plant is mostly within this sweet spot.



The pots are 3x3x8 mini tree pots, MT38.

Final thoughts

Final thoughts

Building Materials:
I plan to make this out of melamine. It's a plastic laminated piece of particle board. It's used in kitchen cabinets and furniture. It requires no sanding or finishing. It is water resistant, and cheaper than quality birch plywood (though still not cheap). It can be difficult to work with, chips easily, and requires special glues, finishes, and tools.

Medium & Nutrients:
I'm going to stay with what I know best. I'll stick with the Fox Farms Coco Loco with the Bio Canna line of nutrients (Vega, Florez, Boost, and Rhizotonic).

Automation:
One of my buddies suggested a motorized lazy susan. I thought it was too complicated and error prone. The same thing could be said for Blumats or drip irrigation. Not to mention I really enjoy spending time with the plants.

Cycles:
I plan to run this as a perpetual, but I want to first run a monocrop through it to get things full. Getting 60 healthy clones from the same plant will be tricky with my micro cabs. I may have to veg out several clones just for that purpose.

Outlets & Timers:
Each grow chamber is going to be equipped with a four outlets. One set will be hooked up to the timer and the second set will be always on. The timers are going to be in-wall digital timers. I will use two separate timers instead of a true flip-flop circuit since I had the ballasts anyway.

Temperature Control:
Each side will have a themostat and the fan will have a speed controller. This will be wired like my other cab so when everything is cool, the fan runs on the speed controller. When either is too hot, the fan will fun full speed.

Questions, comments, or concerns?
I'm still at the point where I can make changes to the design. I value opinions and will consider them all no matter how silly.

Vibes++

Coliseum Layout

Coliseum Layout


My tree pots came in today. I used upside down pots to simulate the top row.There are 30 total pots for each side. The bottom row has 12 while the top has 18. There is plenty of room for the fan in the center. It fits within a 30" square and represents one of the two grow chambers.

Models and Templates

Models and Templates

I wanted to make sure everything fits together correctly, so I made a 1/4 scale model of the workbench. I used Sketchup to print out the pieces then cut them out of the foam core. Everything fit as expected. There are a few corners that are not square, but considering I just traced pieces it fit pretty well.



The foam core was cheap and I bought way more than I needed, so I decided it would work well for my template. Again I used Sketchup to print out a full size template (from several pieces I had to tape together) and traced them out. These will aid me in my layout, as I can trace out the location of the holes quickly. I plan to make a wood template and use a router to cut out each piece. This is going to be the most difficult part to build. I'm not decided on the material I'm going to use. It may be melamine as well.

Useful threads

Useful threads

Compact SOG with CFL's

The DrBudGreengenes method is the granddaddy of this whole project. I know the method works, I've used it quite successfully in my PC.

***DrBud Takes CFL SOG to the Next Level***

Another of DrBudGreengenes projects. Here we see that the method scales well to larger (though still micro) grows.

Anti's MicroStealth Cab Design (Dr. Bud Method)

Anti is full of great ideas. Particularly the way he plans out his designs and uses Sketchup. In this thread you will notice a lot of similarities in the ventilation design and general layout.


Seeking Critique on Vert Colosseum SOG concept.

A follow up thread by Anti. In this thread he designs and builds This is one of the threads that really got me interested in going vertical.


Bongsauce's new super cab! dual 150w Vertical hps + LED

I don't usually look at other sites, but this thread is worth putting up with the other community. This cab was directly inspired by the previous thread and is where I decided to start off this design.

Cobra420's Dual 150w HPS Cabinet

Another great thread using dual 150-watt HID lighting.

Boleman is back with his brand new edition... 150watt CMH! 24"x24"x28"H under fishtnk

Though not as detailed as the previous threads, this is the thread that made me realize exactly what my neighbor was throwing away. Without this thread I would have passed it up.

I'm sure there are many, many others but these are the main ones for this project.

I finally got the right bulb. At first I ordered the cheapest pulse start MH with a medium base. Well those weren't compatible with my ballast. Next I ordered the Phillips Master Color CMH, but I got the unprotected version. Since I didn't want to risk burning down my house, I sent all those back and got the protected Master Color in 3000K.



The bulb is definitely bright! After test firing it for about 20 minutes, I turned it off and was surprised the filament was still glowing red hot.



I was walking around the home improvement store looking for the right material for the reflector pieces in the back. At first I was thinking about 1/8" plywood, but it wasn't flexible enough to wrap around. I decided that the corrugated plastic would work well for that.

I was still debating what martial to use in the construction. Again thinking that 1/8" plywood would be cheaper (not really) and easier to work with. My plan was to use a router with a jig for the circles, and a template for the holes that the pots go in.

I looked at 1/2" melamine shelving, but it was too expensive and the shape would leave a lot of waste. The full sheets would require power tools and a truck, which I could have borrowed. I went home frustrated.

I was looking at my foam core model and was suprised how strong and sturdy it was. I had several pieces of scrap corrugated plastic that I started playing with. Using some #6 1" sheet metal screws I built a small shelf similar to how I designed it. It took my full weight (180 lbs) before it slid out from under me and broke. I had to use great force to rip the screws out. I was satisfied that this would work for the whole thing.

I bought a couple sheets and several hours later I had this. Well the plants are from my PC, they didn't grow like that in a few hours, hehehe. The design is stable and I can lift and move it without any trouble. The only thing I'm going to change is cutting a small handle in the back.



The plastic is great because it is light, water proof, cleans easy, cuts with hand tools, requires no sanding or painting, and comes in manageable size sheets. It's not as strong as the plywood or melamine, but it's simply there to hold things in place. It also isn't as heat resistant, but neither are the plants. It's not completely opaque, but that shouldn't be too much of an issue. It does have a "grain" and that leaves a bit of waste and makes for some odd angled screws. It's also one of the more expensive ($/sqrft) materials I looked at.

Admiring how meticulously you thought this through! Can't help but find myself wondering why you would be running 60 plants in there if not just for variety though.. I would hate to have to source 60 clones every couple months considering I could just achieve the same yields with a plant or 2 under a scrog. Not saying it's not awesome/brilliant, just humbly admitting that I don't understand.

I guess I should read through the links you posted before I mouth off.

True, the real advantage is once it is running perpetual. Then it will be about six in and six out every week. Six clones a week is pretty easy.

That's real good, guessing six plants yield at 7-9 grams each.

At a conservative estimate, 42-54 grams per pull.

subbed.

Once dialed in I can see 7 grams, but I think the first few rounds will be 3-4 grams. Even still that's 18-24 grams a week.

I think I may fill it, then pull six a week and use that for coconut oil. I would hate for it to be empty while I'm starting get it up.

The interesting part of a cabinet grow seems more plants have
a different dynamic than a couple plants.

Temps and humidity, and a full cabinet just seems better, lol

Glue and Handles

Glue and Handles

My brother came over this weekend and took the futon out of my "workshop". The workbench should have a similar footprint. He was looking at my coliseum and thought it was great. He commented that I should reinforce it with glue. We discussed different glues and narrowed it down to silicone (his suggestion) and hot glue (my suggestion).

To test it out I made a couple of joints (and a big fat joint) and glued them with both types of glue. After drying over night I tested each. Both were strong. I couldn't rip the joints or bend them to get the glue to come off. The silicone looked way cleaner and temperature is less of an issue once cured. The hot glue is easier to work with, but less flexible and gets brittle in cold temperatures. Silicone wins this round.



We both thought the coliseum needed a handle in the back to grab each section. I was going to cut a hole in the back and my brother suggested I don't cut all the way through like a beer box. So with that as my template I did a test handle. I love when inspiration comes from the most common of places.

Ventilation Update

Ventilation Update


Previously I had this design in mind, as seen from the front. The air would come in from the side and through the light trap. The problem I was having with this design was the drawers on the front side. With this design the drawers would have to have been air tight. I'm sure I could have achieved this with weatherstrip and a lock on the drawer. The original plan was to dry in the drawers, so I wanted some fresh air to flow through there and filter out the smell. With the shared ventilation area, I was afraid leaks would decrease the efficiency of the grow chamber and lead to overheating.


Instead I came up with this design, as seen from behind. Instead of making the drawers air tight, I put a false back on there. This will be easy to make air tight with weather strip and screws. The only problem with this design is there is no light trap. It would be possible for light from the left chamber to leak into the right chamber. I think a small light trap like what I have on the intake will work just fine. I also need to double check my sizes so I can upgrade to a 4" vortex if required.

Strains for Perpetual uSOG

Strains for Perpetual uSOG

I've been debating which strain(s) to run in this cab. I have the following:

Clones:
Afghani (Unkown, unsexed)
Cheese Candy (Delicious Seeds)
Holy Grail 69 (Samsara)
Juanita la Lagrimosa (Reggae Seeds)

Seeds:
Blueberry (Dutch Passion)
Jillybean (TGA Subcool)
Zamaldelica (Ace)

I plan to run DrBudGreengenes style of grow. Each week will be six in six out. I really want to pick a strain and dial it in, then start adding new strains.

Each plant will be in a mini tree pot. These are 3" x 3" x 8" pots and hold about a liter of media. The media will be Fox Farms Coco Loco. I will be using the Bio Canna line of nutrients. I plan to feed every time using the submersion method. Using the tray that is made for these pots, I can easily water 10 plants at once (each section has 10 plants, 60 plants total).

Afghani
Pros: Short flowering time, dense buds, great for hash.
Cons: Longer veg time, no stretch, lots of leaf.

Blueberry
Pros: DrBudGreengenes suggested it as a good strain, great flavor if right phenotype.
Cons: Not DJ Short's version, unkown phenotypes.

Cheese Candy
Pros: Hybrid with a little stretch, decent yielder.
Cons: Flavor was nothing special.

Holy Grail 69
Pros: Short stalks plant, great taste, big yielder.
Cons: Will need more veg time.

Jillybean
Pros: Great flavor, wanted to try growing it.
Cons: Unkown phenotypes, unkown growth

Juanita la Lagrimosa
Pros: Incredible plant, CBD, tastes like a field of flowers.
Cons: stretchy, branchy, out of control growth.

Zamaldelica
Pros: Mostly saliva, tripping weed.
Cons: Mostly saliva, branchy and crazy like Juanitta.

Does anyone have any opinions on what I should run? I'm looking for a strain that will perform well with this style grow. I would love to get a cut of GG#4 or GSC, but I have yet to make that trip up to Denver.

Good group of strains to choose from.

You could start with Cheese Candy and Holy Grail 69.
Get clone method wired and feather in the other strains
as you get rhythm.

Seed plants will be an unknown for veg time and ease
of cuttings rooting, as well as branching/stretching of
the veg plants.

Six in every week, I wonder how many cuttings you'll
root to choose the best six.

Good thread

Dropped Cat said:

Good group of strains to choose from.

You could start with Cheese Candy and Holy Grail 69.
Get clone method wired and feather in the other strains
as you get rhythm.

Seed plants will be an unknown for veg time and ease
of cuttings rooting, as well as branching/stretching of
the veg plants.

Six in every week, I wonder how many cuttings you'll
root to choose the best six.

Good thread

Click to expand...

I think the Cheese Candy would be the easier of those two to dial in. It clones pretty easy, yielded ok, and was decent smoke. Getting the timing and cloning down will be key. I struggled with timing doing 12/12 from seed in my PC.

Great point about the seed plants being an unkown.

I've been having great success with my micro cloner lately. These are little 12 site seed starters. I then have these 3 oz party cups with a hole 1/4" up. Fill it with perlite and water it with superthrive until it comes out the hole. Basically a micro hempy. I can fit 6 clones in each. This fits over my T5 in veg and the ceiling has low wattage LED strips above it. I've been using a seed mat this winter. I have about 80% success rate. I fill one a week right now, but it should scale up really well.