Rust or SEVERE Calcium deficiency?

LyryC · Jul 9, 2014

This plant has what looks to like a really bad calicium deficiency OR RUST.

I can't see any other explination.

I need your help IC Mag.

I'm flowering this plant right now and rust spreads and sure enough if it is that it already has spread.

The vegging plant has teh same symptoms showing on older growth.

Makes me feel its calcium related but the flowering plant has necrosis going on.

Scoping the leaves the stomata are being attacked without a doubt and its traveling around the leaves around the veins underneath.

Unless thats how the mobility of the nutrients are working I am baffled.

Please help... What do you think from these pictures I'm dealing with?

Its gotten bad. At first it looked like regular cal problem but now its necrosis and all the leaves pretty much looked spent

The plant in veg - old pic

Plant earlier in life stage

LyryC · Jul 9, 2014

Thanks for looking

Thanks for looking

now onto the leaves - I'll get more pictures upon request

LyryC · Jul 9, 2014

I hope its just a stupid Cal problem and I can cull it

I hope its just a stupid Cal problem and I can cull it

Should I keep this plant in the flower room or immediate disposal?

Thank you everyone!

Hammerhead · Jul 9, 2014

looks like toxic levels?? Check the EC/ppm runoff of Plain RO water. It should not be a lot more then what your puttin in. The clawing and cupped leaves indicates lockout. without more info its hard to say..Post those results if you check it.

Jhhnn · Jul 9, 2014

I had the very much the same symptoms my last grow- most likely I had root aphids after barking up the wrong tree of calcium deficiency. I thought I just had fungus gnats- to a non-entymologist, the adult flyers are indistinguishable. The most afflicted plants showed a rapid decrease in water uptake, as well.

Gnatrol works wonders, but is slow to eliminate them entirely. I now use 1 tbsp/gal once a week when watering. No more flyers. I put the affected soil in our drum composter w/ grass clippings & compost starter hoping to destroy the eggs. We'll see.

Coconutz · Jul 9, 2014

I agree that this isnt a deficiency... I would be looking elsewhere...
The reason I suggested dumping her is because her leaves are no longer green and she is no longer efficiently processing light.
You were complaining about not having enough room, so I suggested the obvious...
Did not mean to offend you
peace

Dreambig · Jul 9, 2014

What kind of medium is it in? What nutes have you been giving it? Have you done any foliar spraying?

LyryC · Jul 9, 2014

RA?

but

if its true

don't see how it could be toxicity but i'll try and put a tray under that pot and check

LyryC · Jul 9, 2014

coco/perilite/growstone 60/20/20

GH 6/9 Micro/Bloom
Protekt silica
hygrozyme
sm90

R/o water

When fed to plants temp is always 72, EC 1.2 and pH of 5.8.

no foliar

I think I should just toss this plant - not worth the fuss it seems

Thank you everyone :tiphat:

OvergrowDaWorld · Jul 9, 2014

With tap water that has a high ec........... they dont need Cal-Mag+. ( My tap takes 20 drops of down to get it to a 6.3 ph LOL!)
Ive had plants do this cuz I gave them Cal-Mag+ and it was too much for them to handle.

With R/O water....... you will need Cal-Mag+. 1 tsp every watering.

noreason · Jul 9, 2014

I think it's an issue with Ca. Those signs are pretty clear, but obviously I can be wrong.
If I can give you a suggestion, flush the medium, water with fertilizers and some Ca till reaching 1 mS/cm keeping pH a little high. Put the plant in the shade for a couple of days, and give it a good VPD value.

A coupe of days and you should notice no more yellow signs.

Hope it helps :wave:

bobblehead · Jul 9, 2014

I've never had a plant look like that unless it had bugs. Cull it, bag it, dispose of it.

Jhhnn · Jul 9, 2014

bobblehead said:
I've never had a plant look like that unless it had bugs. Cull it, bag it, dispose of it.

Sounds easy except that bugs get around, if slowly.

My problem started the same way, with a single plant. I started seeing some flyers early in flower, put up fly catcher strips, figuring it was a calcium def along w/ gnats. Applied cal-mag to no avail. It started spreading to other plants. I was growing Royal Flush & BB headband, the latter apparently being more resistant. I noticed that the most affected plants weren't taking up much water- the pots stayed heavy between waterings. The "gnats" were getting worse, so I started using mosquito dunks crumbled up as top dressing on the soil, if not at sufficient strength. It helped, at least w/ the flyer population.

I started reading the winged root aphids thread, found an obscure post about how their damage could be easily mistaken for a calcium def. Two weeks prior to harvest, I stepped up the mosquito dunk routine, made it through with vastly reduced flyers at the end. The most affected plants yielded the least & never fully recovered.

More research led me to a 500g bag of gnatrol from Amazon. With the new grow, I set out a fly catcher strip from the beginning. At the first sign of flyers, I applied it weekly. After 3 weeks, a new strip showed no flyers & I haven't had any since nor any of the same leaf necrosis, either.

Gnatrol doesn't seem to effect the girls at all, other than in positive ways. I'll never grow without it again. I'm stepping back the dosage to see how little I can use to get the results I want. If I catch any flyers at all, I'm going right back to 1 tbsp/gal.

As I understand it, "root aphids" describes several different species, not all of which have much in the way of flyers. With some, the adults supposedly don't really fly much at all but rather just crawl & hop around on the soil, making their presence stealthier.

LyryC · Jul 9, 2014

Nothing flying around here.

Medium is pest free from a quick peak at the top layer but doesn't mean its in the clear.

I pulled the plant from teh room.

Ganna toss it tonight and then dump the dirt into a tray and examine it/the roots.

I've had this problem with this specific plant since I cloned it.

LyryC · Jul 9, 2014

Thank you!

Thank you!

Thanks for the help everyone.

I appreciate it.

I'm definitely going to cull it and too bad I don't have the resources for a test at some lab to really tell me wtf is up.

:thank you:

Jhhnn · Jul 9, 2014

LyryC said:
Nothing flying around here.

Medium is pest free from a quick peak at the top layer but doesn't mean its in the clear.

I pulled the plant from teh room.

Ganna toss it tonight and then dump the dirt into a tray and examine it/the roots.

I've had this problem with this specific plant since I cloned it.

Seems reasonable. If the problem spreads, you might have the same/similar problem that I did. I never could identify any grubs, even under a microscope, but I'm not very good at that.

Meanwhile, should you need it-

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BEL78H2/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Best of luck with it all.

LyryC · Jul 10, 2014

Thanks - Gnatrol kinda works and doesn't... gotta use it right.

I'm pretty sure a good h2o2 flush would rape anything living, maybe the plant too?

anyways

she sat outside flower too long imo - with room lights going on and off - and i been fucking with the top layer of soil.

bouta chop her head off and then lift that skirt and get my fingers dirty LOL LOL LOL

:laughing:

sometimes you can play with words and gardening to an extreme.

thansk again!

fishwipe · Jan 27, 2015

Did you ever get to the bottom of your rust problem?

Reason I ask, is I have the same thing going on. I've had it for a time, and this grow is perhaps worse than the previous. I'm growing in Perlite, with hempy buckets, but I had it to a degree when growing in coco.
I use tap water, ec of which doesn't show on the meter, so I add magnesium to 150-250ppm, and just a touch of cal.(Canna), maybe about 6ml to 60 litres or so. I've no idea how much cal to add..
I have no flies or gnats.. and this rust only appears around the 4th week into flowering.
I'm using the same nutrients as LyryC, in the same ratio, and this usually results in an ec of 750-800ppm.
The runoff at times is much higher….
So - I figure perhaps the feed is a bit on the strong side (perfect in veg) when flowering, or the mix has to change, perhaps lowering the N content in bloom, and maybe not enough cal.
I also have a DWC setup using the same mix, which I've just switched to 12/12, it'll be interesting to see how that gets on…
However - if anyone has any further insights into this rust problem… It'd be great if you could post your findings..

Something else is odd about this grow.. During early veg, all was fine - and then I started getting three fingered leaves (instead of the 5 fingered variety which were already established - makes me think there's been undue strain on them at some point.

I've ruled out overheating, ph, insects, - I can only think that I've (at some point) become "confused," and messed up the feed mix. I make around 60 - 70 litres at a time.

Growing Dinafem Super Silver, btw.

I'd REALLY like to get to the bottom of this, so all help is appreciated.

Thanks

Fishwipe

LyryC · Jan 27, 2015

The situation corrected itself and heres what did it.

Reusing coco is a no no. Unless you properly flush, clean, and recharge your coco, I wouldn't reuse it.

2nd was Advanced Nutrients, More like overpriced advanced bullshit, i used before my switch to 6/9 and thats were the problem started, lack of a balanced nutrient regime when that plant started its life

I was using R/O water and not adding any Cal/Mag. The plant had an severe nutrient lock out.

I cloned her a few times and the problem went away after the first cloning.

Stable nutrients sir, and quality medium.

No root Aphids like some one said... lol only A SEVERE CALCIUM lockout.

I kept growing this plant and it grew out of hte problem into normal growth, but flowering was upset and the bud developments late start made her yield very miserable.

Was never rust.

This is my evolved feed.

5 gallons R/O ph usually around 8.2 - 0.0 EC
I only use 3 gallons worth of 6/9. so 18ml Micro and 27ml Bloom per 5 gallons.
I first add Silica - 5ml
Then Calimagic(cal/mag) at manufacturers rate 4ml per gallon, so 20ml.
Then I add Micro and then stir the mix, add bloom, stir.
Hygrozyme is next at 10ml but you can use more.
Then I add 10ml Diamond Nectar.
Followed by FloraNectar 10ml
5ml FloraciousPlus
1/2 teaspoon KoolBloom
You can add Root Excellerator if you use it at this stage, I don't use it past week 5 in bloom and some times I don't mix it in because Its great stuff but everyday isn't neccessary and Its a PITA to open and keep the bottle clean, same goes for Floracious Plus.
Last but not Least I add the SM90, 15ml - full dose, but you can use less and still received the desired pH.

Ending PH is 5.8 and EC 1.3. For 1.2 EC using 1/4 Teaspoon KoolBloom.

Hope any of this helps.

fishwipe · Jan 28, 2015

I'm pretty sure I've not had anywhere near enough calcium in my feeds. I'd be adding between 3 and 6ml per 60 litres.
I note from your feed that you dilute the recommended feed. I've been feeding at 800ppm, Inc.150ppm magnesium. I think that's 1.6 ec... Way higher, unless you discount the magnesium. I've suspected that overferting may be part of the problem. I've got crispy leaves on the current batch....
Is that feed your veg AND bloom?

Rust or SEVERE Calcium deficiency?

Active member

Active member

Active member

Disabled Farmer

Active member

Active member

Member

Active member

Active member

$$ ALONE $$

Natural born Grower

Active member

Active member

Active member

Active member

Active member

Active member

New member

Active member

New member