Leaf Curl Up and Down?

BrosephStalin · Jul 28, 2013

So after I watered last I went in the next day and most all the fan leaves curled up like this

and some of the leaves near the bud sites curled down like this

I watered with 6.8ph water. Plants are in 10 gallons of FFoF. Temps are 76 night 82 day with 1000ppm of CO2. I sprayed a few with a foliar of epsom salt at 1tsp per gal thinking a Mg problem but it had no effect. Wondering what you guys think?

l2sm · Jul 28, 2013

I'm gonna say heat stress

Crooked8 · Jul 28, 2013

Heat stress/nitrogen toxicity

Snype · Jul 28, 2013

There's a lot more variables missing from this equation. Impossible to solve this problem without all the variables. That's why there is a form in the Infirmary for growers to fill out.

BrosephStalin · Jul 28, 2013

Room is sealed running 1000ppm of CO2 as well.

How long has this problem been going on? Since last watering
What STRAIN are you growing? G-13
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?) Clone
What is the age of your plants? 6 weeks (3weeks veg, on 3rd week of flower now)
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now? 4 Weeks
Were they in the same mixture when they were seedlings/smaller plant? If not, what mixture were they in before? Same
How Tall are the plants? 3.5 ft
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? Flower
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc) Tomato Cages
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) 10 gal
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?) FFoF out the bag
What brand Nutrient's are you using? FoxFarm
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful* None so far
How often are you feeding? Haven't fed yet
How often are you testing pH/ppm/EC/TDS? Every water
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen? Ph pen
How often are you watering? As needed when pots are light and some leaves droop
What size bulb are you using? 6x1000w
How old is your bulbs? One Grow
What is the distance to the canopy? 3.5ft
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) 50 night 40 day
What is the canopy temperature? 82*
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range) 76-82
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? Yes
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? No
Is your water HARD or SOFT? 60ppm from tap
If using tap water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS of the water right out of the tap?(Only if you have a tds pen) 8.0
Are you using water from a water softener? No
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? No
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when? No
Are plant's infected with pest's? No

Snype · Jul 28, 2013

From what you filled out in the form, your data seems perfect. The only thing that I see that can be wrong because I do use FFOF and have experience with it so I would think your pH of your medium may be off. You have 10 gallon pots and haven't added any feed and you wouldn't have to with 10 gallon pots of FFOF at 3 weeks flowering. I barely feed when I use FFOF. What I would test next if I was in your position is I would want to see the pH of the run off and see if it's around 6.4. When I test my FFOF out of the bag it is 6.4 but after a few weeks it can drop down to below 6.0 and then all my problems start to occur. If it's not that I would suspect some type of mite problem or a root problem.

BrosephStalin · Jul 28, 2013

I'm watering tomorrow so I'll check runoff. I've been running this room for almost 2 years with no issues and this strain many times as well. I've checked VERY closely for bugs and haven't found any, so I'm pretty stumped as to where to go from here. Thanks for the input dude.

Snype · Jul 28, 2013

BrosephStalin said:
I'm watering tomorrow so I'll check runoff. I've been running this room for almost 2 years with no issues and this strain many times as well. I've checked VERY closely for bugs and haven't found any, so I'm pretty stumped as to where to go from here. Thanks for the input dude.

The reason why I brought up mites is because of what I saw in your second picture. It looks like there is some white spotting on your leaves. Maybe the spotting is from your Epsom Salt Foiler.

Crooked8 · Jul 28, 2013

Runoff at 6.4!? Isnt that too high? From my understanding plants want 5.8 in veg through the beginning of flower. Then you want to gradually bring it up to 6.2 by the ripening stage of flower. I could imagine 6.4 going into organic soil. Then the runoff should be more acidic. 5.8-6.2 being ideal. Am i wrong? Pretty sure i read that in the latest ic magazine issue?

Kush Technician · Jul 28, 2013

they couldnt have possibly started looking like that after one watering. I see lots of problems that are ongoing. Too many to pin down, no offense, just wondering how healthy your plants look under normal conditions. Could be bugs, improper nutet/ph/soil/watering habits/etc

im no help, please forgive me.

but to be more specific, burning of the leaf edges, pale green leaves, red leaf stems, deformed leaves, weak growth, interveinal chlorosis, to name more than a few. Your plants need help.

Anybody?

Crooked8 · Jul 28, 2013

I also think they need help. If youre three weeks in with ffof and youre already seeing deficiency with just giving water it might be time to add some base nutes. Go light on the base this week. Id add silica, cal mag at 5 ml per gallon and ph nute solution to 6.2. Water it in until runoff and check your runoff. If your runiff ph is around 5.8-6.0 you should be golden. The readily uptakable nutrients in a fertilizer solution with some cal mag shoukd help correct most deficiency so long as your ph is on point. Im no master, just trying to help with some of what ive learned.

Crooked8 · Jul 28, 2013

Kush Technician said:
they couldnt have possibly started looking like that after one watering. I see lots of problems that are ongoing. Too many to pin down, no offense, just wondering how healthy your plants look under normal conditions. Could be bugs, improper nutet/ph/soil/watering habits/etc

im no help, please forgive me.

but to be more specific, burning of the leaf edges, pale green leaves, red leaf stems, deformed leaves, weak growth, interveinal chlorosis, to name more than a few. Your plants need help.

Anybody?

Red leaf petioles can be genetic. When the main vascular stems become red that can be a sign of deficiency but the petioles arent a sure sign of a problem i dont think.

Snype · Jul 28, 2013

Crooked8 said:
Runoff at 6.4!? Isnt that too high? From my understanding plants want 5.8 in veg through the beginning of flower. Then you want to gradually bring it up to 6.2 by the ripening stage of flower. I could imagine 6.4 going into organic soil. Then the runoff should be more acidic. 5.8-6.2 being ideal. Am i wrong? Pretty sure i read that in the latest ic magazine issue?

Crooked8, Soil and Hydro are 2 different types of growing. Hydro in a specific medium is supposed to be 5.8 to 6.2. Growing in Ocean Forest Soil you want to be at a pH 6.4 - 6.8. I've been using Foxfarm Ocean Forest since 1999. Listening to magazines instead of personal experience is a big mistake. Here's one of my FFOF soil plants:

Crooked8 said:
I also think they need help. If youre three weeks in with ffof and youre already seeing deficiency with just giving water it might be time to add some base nutes. Go light on the base this week. Id add silica, cal mag at 5 ml per gallon and ph nute solution to 6.2. Water it in until runoff and check your runoff. If your runiff ph is around 5.8-6.0 you should be golden. The readily uptakable nutrients in a fertilizer solution with some cal mag shoukd help correct most deficiency so long as your ph is on point. Im no master, just trying to help with some of what ive learned.

Please don't come into the infirmary and try to help people if you don't have personal experience with the specific situation. He's 3 weeks into Flowering with FFOF Soil. You are a RDWC grower and should help growers with RDWC problems. FFOF Soil cost $24 a bag for a reason and has all organic nutrients in it already. Because his pots are so big (10 Gallon) and he is only 3 weeks into Flowering, pH of the run off is the first thing that is supposed to be checked in this situation. The run off being 5.8 - 6.0 is HYDRO NOT SOIL You have to be very careful what you say in the infirmary because you can directly affect someone else's plants and life with poor information. If you would like to learn more about these types of issues, please read this thread by Stitch:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688

l2sm · Jul 28, 2013

Snype said:
Please don't come into the infirmary and try to help people if you don't have personal experience with the specific situation.

You have to be very careful what you say in the infirmary because you can directly affect someone else's plants and life with poor information.

While that's true, and we certainly need to be careful, in the end everyone is responsible for their own plants. Other people's opinions are just that, opinions. No one will have the exact same environment, genetics, and growing style anyway. But surely everyone is allowed to state their opinion, especially when it's asked for? Those opinions along with them being discussed will then not only let us come to a conclusion on what the problem may be but also let us all learn.

By the way, I'm still sticking to heat stress. Because of the sides of the leaves curling up (to transpire more water) and general poor health. Of course there may be other issues too.

Snype · Jul 28, 2013

l2sm said:
While that's true, and we certainly need to be careful, in the end everyone is responsible for their own plants. Other people's opinions are just that, opinions. No one will have the exact same environment, genetics, and growing style anyway. But surely everyone is allowed to state their opinion, especially when it's asked for? Those opinions along with them being discussed will then not only let us come to a conclusion on what the problem may be but also let us all learn.

By the way, I'm still sticking to heat stress. Because of the sides of the leaves curling up (to transpire more water) and general poor health. Of course there may be other issues too.

You may be a new member and not aware what happened to the infirmary. Some of the greatest educational infirmary helpers chose to leave the infirmary because of these types of situations. When they would try and help people, it ended up turning into pissing matches and loads of poor information that led to a lot of growers plants messed up even further. You are right everyone is entitled to their opinion but when you have such bad information when people are telling growers in soil that their pH should be 5.8, that is just crazy and shouldn't be tolerated. I've been saying for years that there should be a master moderator in this form for when the information is clearly wrong but that may never happen. Environment and genetics have nothing to do with what your pH in soil should be.

l2sm · Jul 28, 2013

Crooked8 · Jul 28, 2013

Edited because i became rude. My mistake.

Hammerhead · Jul 28, 2013

easy boys.. one thing to alwys keep in mind when growing anything. There more then 1 way to do something. If you look hard enough the data is here. Theres are the values I grew up using.

I pay 10.50 for FFOF and roots 707 2.CF...

i Also use PH 6.3-6.8 With my HF,FFLW,COCO mix....I keep my EC @ 1.5. I use Pure blend Pro Nutrients for a very long time. When I use up this batch im going to try the GO line. I wont need my PH/EC meter for awhile..

If my plants are having issues I measure my runoff. If its really high thats usually the problem. After I leach out those extra salts the problems go away. With this GO line I wont have issue like that. Going to pure Organics is going to be great

Going back to the OP question. check your RUNOFF tell us what the PPM levels are PH wont matter if yuo have high EC levels.

Crooked8 · Jul 29, 2013

6.8 just seems high to me but if its brand new soil i guess it could bring the runoff down to 5.8. I didnt mean to get all irritated but i cant stand when people(especially those who dont know me or my work) try to tell me my place. Having a shit day, i come on ic to relax and this dude is calling me out telling me i have no place adding my opinion. I agree there is more than one way to do this but overall the ph thing is rather consistent. If your ph is too high or low you see problems. I grew in organic soil for 5 years before switching to hydro. My appologies to dude man who called me out i was already having a bad moment when i read that and i was like OH NO HE DIDNT!

Hammerhead · Jul 29, 2013

No worries we all have bad days.. Hopefully you have some ganja aid you in a meditation session lol..

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