Using Neem Systemically?

Hi all

So, anyone used neem in their water as a systemic plant treatment. I’m talking about during veg and for spider mites. Just curious…

- Butte

foliar spray is the traditional method for mites.

get the undersides of the leaves.

if you have gnats, yes, you could water it into the soil, but gnatrol will work better for gnat larvae.

the mites live on the plant (above the soil)

the gnat larvae live in the soil, and eat roots.

identify the pest, then extermination can commence.

kill kill kill...

Thanks for the input, Sleepy. I’ve had good success using neem as a foliar. I was hoping for something a little easier and mostly as a preventative, though. I’ve also read a few other interesting things about using it systemically that got me thinking...

From the Resource Guide for Organic Insect and Disease Management

Neem’s systemic properties suggest that applying it to transplants just before planting to the field could be an effective and inexpensive way to control certain pests. Similarly, applying neem with relatively large amounts of water, in directed sprays over the rows of small seedlings, could be a very efficient method of application. In one study, neem applied through a drip irrigation system significantly reduced lettuce aphids on romaine by over 50% (Palumbo et al. 2001).http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/pp/resourceguide/mfs/08neem.php

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…yeah, I know it’s not herb, but it’s interesting none the less. And this bit

Studies show that soil fertilizing properties of neem block soil bacteria from converting nitrogenous substances into useless nitrogen gas. Plant roots are protected from nematodes and termites. British researchers isolated azadirachtin, an active insect antifeedants, from the neem seed. An insect antifeedant is a compound which prevents insect feeding without killing the insect directly, unlike traditional insecticides, which are non-selective.
Neem repellent properties are known to affect more than 200 insect pest species, but are non-toxic to warm-blooded animals including beneficial insects, spiders, and other predators. Some plants absorb neem systemically and are thus protected. Since beneficial insects prey on insects and not the plants, this explains why they are not harmed.http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/organic/52518

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Sooo, still wondering if anyone’s actually used neem systemically...

- Butte

Directions for 100% neem say to use it at 1 1/2 teaspoons to a quart of water for a foliar spray... it also states that this can be used to water the plants also... This is Dyna-Gro Neem Oil.

I just started putting a 1/4 teaspoon in a gallon of water every application. I use a greenhouse and we will see if it has any added benifits. I can always increase the amount if need be.

my new effective controll for mites is 1tokeOverLine's method of

baking soda
apple cider vinegar
lemon juice
epsom salts
dish soap


rinse 15 min after use. Works Great!


jsn

Figured I would drag a thread back from the depths rather than post a new one along the same lines.

I have been trying to find out how long in flower it is ok to still use neem as a soil drench? I was planning on using triple action neem oil emulsified with dish liquid and watered in. In another thread titled, "Neem drench in coco?" I saw one user post their results with a neem drench where they used neem at a rate of,

ozzieAI said:

i have gone up to 12ml/litre with pure neem oil when dealing with a heavy RA infestation...and the plants loved it...

if used improperly neem can be harsh but not if emulsified properly

neem oil breaks down very quickly....

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and also,

ozzieAI said:

as a preventative just top dress with neem cake, it's easier, cheaper and very effective....

for neem oil 5ml/litre once a week....

good luck

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I have fungus gnats that are hanging out and float around. This seems to happen more often than not with each grow and I have always let it slide and dismissed it as "just the way it is". They have never gotten out of hand and I usually just let them find their way to a yellow sticky trap. I wanted to get a little more proactive with taking care of them but not if I'm too far into flower. I have tried to find more information regarding how long it can stay in the plant's system when used as a soil drench and it seems like 30 days is the accepted length of time. I'm around day 40 and I usually run my girls at least 9 weeks. Does anybody have any more experience with using emulsified neem as a soil drench and the possible time frame to get it out of the plant's system? I don't want any harshness or other tell tale signs in the finished product. Should I just ride this one out? I was also thinking of getting some neem cake to use as top dressing and making teas in the future. Any thoughts on this as well? If there is neem cake as a top dressing then would that not have it always around for the plant to ingest up until harvest or it more to just keep any potential critter pests from setting up shop?

Thanks for any and all info!

bump

I throw a couple TLBS/Gal of Karanja meal into my coco hempy's or airpots as a preventative.
Folate

Thanks folate.

Anybody else have any experience with doing this?

I have been trying to find out how long in flower it is ok to still use neem as a soil drench?

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i usually stop the drench 2 weeks before harvest...

I was also thinking of getting some neem cake to use as top dressing

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great idea...works a treat...

ozzieAI said:

i usually stop the drench 2 weeks before harvest...

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I'm really glad you dropped in on this thread as you had popped up in lots of the other neem related threads that I've been searching through. My main concern with using the neem this far in flower would be the possibility of having latent azadirachtin in the finished product that would alter taste, harshness, etc. You have never noticed anything like this even using neem up to two weeks before harvest?

I have some vegging clones and teens right now that have fungus gnats too. The clones have really been struggling so I did the neem drench last night at 10mL/gallon (2.5mL/L). I don't think gnats are the main culprit and I also gave them an aerated compost tea. I also didn't know how to properly emulsify the neem as I only used 2.5mL of natural dish liquid. After some additional reading today it seems like the consensus for the ratio of soap to neem is 1:2. I was just really afraid of burning the clones.

I tried several ratios of soap to neem but there was always suddsy bubbles on top of the mixture that I was afraid to dump onto my plants. My bottle of neem has the label torn off so I didn't have anything to reference from the manufacturer but I know it's the 70/30% mixture. Next round I'll be sure to purchase the 100% neem.

A lot of questions I know but anything you care to answer will be greatly appreciated. I'm reading your neem vs. root aphids thread right now and have already read your side by side neem growth experiment, good stuff.

My main concern with using the neem this far in flower would be the possibility of having latent azadirachtin in the finished product that would alter taste, harshness, etc. You have never noticed anything like this even using neem up to two weeks before harvest?

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i and those who have smoked my weed have never noticed any 'neem' effects in the final product

I didn't have anything to reference from the manufacturer but I know it's the 70/30% mixture

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this is hydrophobic neem oil which has had most of the active ingredients removed through alcohol extraction...just PURE neem oil ftw...

the neem oil i use comes with emulsifier so i have never had to add anything to it...just water...

just as a note...when drenching in coco make sure you add at least 50% usual nute strength...coco from what i have read needs to have some nutes in the mix or you could flush all the nutes out and leave the plant wanting...

Thanks ozzie. I always grow in organic soil so washing all the nutes out isn't a concern. I was wondering if you had come across any information in all your searching about a neem drench getting rid of beneficials, especially mycorrhizal fungi? Isn't neem supposed to be a fungicide as well? I've been grazing through the fungus gnats or winged root aphids thread trying to figure out what I have and how best to address it. I just recently had some abrupt what looks like N deficiencies pop up just over the last two or three days that is progressing very quickly. I have some occasional winged critters flying around and I want to take care of them.

Thanks for all the help!

I was wondering if you had come across any information in all your searching about a neem drench getting rid of beneficials, especially mycorrhizal fungi?

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this is something i have not been able to find information on one way or another. before going coco i too was using organic soil adding beneficials and never seemed to have an issue...

when comes to mycorrhizal fungi i only used it a couple of times so don't have much experience with it...but seemed to have good colonies even when using neem

I just recently had some abrupt what looks like N deficiencies pop up just over the last two or three days that is progressing very quickly. I have some occasional winged critters flying around and I want to take care of them.

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could be RA...hard to tell without pics...can you inspect the roots?

ozzieAI said:

this is something i have not been able to find information on one way or another. before going coco i too was using organic soil adding beneficials and never seemed to have an issue...

when comes to mycorrhizal fungi i only used it a couple of times so don't have much experience with it...but seemed to have good colonies even when using neem



could be RA...hard to tell without pics...can you inspect the roots?

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I don't want to fool with pulling them out to inspect the roots. They are too big and I only have 4.5 feet to work with. One of my girls is only 3 inches shy of the ceiling. I have some of the critters stuck on a yellow sticky trap that I will inspect more closely tonight when the light comes on. I tried digging off the uppermost layer of soil to get down to the first roots and I didn't see any critters with the naked eye.