Electrical scare due to sandy

mtbazz · Oct 31, 2012

Lost power about midnight Monday due to a tree branch that came down on the power lines that run from the utility pole to my house. I actually saw the arcing from my bedroom window. Almost immediately I smelled something and thought of fire. I didn;t see any smoke or fire right away, so after first shutting off the main breaker I spent about 10 minutes getting rid of plants by putting them outside, in case I needed to call the fire company. Was on the verge of dismantling my tent when I realized what I was smelling was probably ozone from the wires breaking.

Questions:

1) Was I correct in my assumption that what I was smelling was probably ozone from the wires snapping and arcing?

2) Weird part is that when the lines broke, all the power in the upstairs went out, but when I got to the garage e the lights were still on? Any ideas how this can happen?

3) ANything I should do before I power up the lights again for growing? Safety inspection by an electrician? replace surge protectors??

nukklehead · Nov 1, 2012

All of the above.. My heart goes out to all affected by sandy.. especially are 420 brothers in arms. Whats unusual is the garage is still on and you dont know why???? Obviously getting power from another source. Maybe someone else can chime in but you REALLY need to know your electrical source for further reference... Prayers are out to you and all others affected

rives · Nov 1, 2012

The smell could have been any number of things, including ozone from arcing. Burned insulation smells terrible, and a burned-up transformer smells even worse.

As Nuk said, the garage may somehow be fed separately, but it could also depend on the phases affected. If the two locations were on different phases and the phase feeding the upstairs lighting broke while the other remained intact, you would get what you saw. Did all of the lights go out when you threw the main?

I wouldn't be too concerned about the grow area, but you should certainly have the drop to the house, the weatherhead, and the riser feeding the main checked over for further damage.

mtbazz · Nov 1, 2012

rives said:
The smell could have been any number of things, including ozone from arcing. Burned insulation smells terrible, and a burned-up transformer smells even worse.

As Nuk said, the garage may somehow be fed separately, but it could also depend on the phases affected. If the two locations were on different phases and the phase feeding the upstairs lighting broke while the other remained intact, you would get what you saw. Did all of the lights go out when you threw the main?

I wouldn't be too concerned about the grow area, but you should certainly have the drop to the house, the weatherhead, and the riser feeding the main checked over for further damage.

yup...all the lights in the garage went out when i threw the mains...

got an electrician coming out today to give the wiring leading into the house a once over. I may just end up having him rerun the lines just to be safe.

than its time to order new surge protectors. any suggestions on those??

rives · Nov 1, 2012

mtbazz said:
than its time to order new surge protectors. any suggestions on those??

Take a look at the whole-house surge protectors that mount inside the main load center. I think most of them have diagnostic LEDs on them to let you know if they are still working or not, and while they are a bit more expensive, they would probably be cheaper and function better than the localized ones. I believe that you can find them at Home Depot, Amazon, etc.

mtbazz · Nov 2, 2012

So just an update..Electrician says the neutral wire from the pole is ripped out from the connection point on my house (recommended I call the electric company and have the power at the pole shut off before my area is energized again), says the "mast" is bent and needs replacement, I need a meter base replacement/upgrade, and of course everything else needs reconnecting. Just under $1000.00 for all that.

Pinball Wizard · Nov 2, 2012

mtbazz said:
So just an update..Electrician says the neutral wire from the pole is ripped out from the connection point on my house (recommended I call the electric company and have the power at the pole shut off before my area is energized again), says the "mast" is bent and needs replacement, I need a meter base replacement/upgrade, and of course everything else needs reconnecting. Just under $1000.00 for all that.

Deja Vu

Same happened to me last month. $360 for electric work. $900 for the tree.

Hammerhead · Nov 3, 2012

???Neutral from the pole.. That is confusing as there is no white wire that powers your main panel. It will probalbly be 2/0. The breakers that are installed in the panel go to power the house with 120v/220v. Only 120v uses the white wire..

nukklehead · Nov 3, 2012

Yo Rives and hammerhead.... Just curious what your opinion is on why the garage still had power.... ??? Do you think electricity found a "ground" somewhere else which allowed it to power the garage... ??? PS what do you mean by phases??

Just curious

rives · Nov 3, 2012

Yes, there is a neutral connection from the utility to your panel. It comes from a center tap on the transformer, providing a midpoint between the two legs that make up 240v. This gives you 120v from either leg to the neutral, and 240v between the two hot legs.

A "phase" here is referring to each of the hot legs, Nuk. If you look at the electrical waveform on an oscilloscope, it forms a sine wave. This oscillates equally from a center point, going positive and negative 60 times a second (60 hertz, or cycles). When you compare the waveforms of each hot leg to the other, when one is positive, the other is negative - they are out of "phase" with each other.

It is hard to say what happened to still give you lights in the garage - the neutral going away creates a very strange set of circumstances. It is possible that the lights somehow fed back through the other hot wire, perhaps the broken neutral came into contact with the riser (the "mast"), creating a path to ground for the neutral, or ???

mtbazz · Nov 3, 2012

photos attached...sounds like there is at least one electrician on here, would not mind getting feedback on what I have been told needs to be done.

"Electrician says the neutral wire from the pole is ripped out from the connection point on my house (recommended I call the electric company and have the power at the pole shut off before my area is energized again), says the "mast" is bent and needs replacement, I need a meter base replacement/upgrade, and of course everything else needs reconnecting. Just under $1000.00 for all that."

Pinball Wizard · Nov 3, 2012

For me the procedure was:

1. electric company disconnects power, removed meter

2 electrician repaired mast ($360)

3. electric company replaced wire, put meter back, turned power on

4. Department of Regulations, Red Tape & White paper come to inspect & put a approval tag on the meter ($26)

Iron_Lion · Nov 3, 2012

rives · Nov 3, 2012

mtbazz said:
photos attached...sounds like there is at least one electrician on here, would not mind getting feedback on what I have been told needs to be done.

"Electrician says the neutral wire from the pole is ripped out from the connection point on my house (recommended I call the electric company and have the power at the pole shut off before my area is energized again), says the "mast" is bent and needs replacement, I need a meter base replacement/upgrade, and of course everything else needs reconnecting. Just under $1000.00 for all that."

I'm not sure what kind of feedback you are looking for - it looks like your electrician was on the nose. There is a good possibility that the wire insulation has been damaged in the mast, and definitely should be shut down before the power company re-energizes. This would be a good time to upgrade if you have any interest/need in doing that.

the gnome · Nov 3, 2012

rives said:
Yes, there is a neutral connection from the utility to your panel.
- the neutral going away creates a very strange set of circumstances

yup, losing your neutral/ground from the power pole can make for very weird things going on,
light can extra brite in one room and dimmed in another.
it can also start frying up electrical equip. like compressors on the fridge.
mine went out a few years back, salt in the air corroded the aluminum ground line from the pole and it was bare hanging on.

mtbazz · Nov 3, 2012

rives said:
I'm not sure what kind of feedback you are looking for - it looks like your electrician was on the nose. There is a good possibility that the wire insulation has been damaged in the mast, and definitely should be shut down before the power company re-energizes. This would be a good time to upgrade if you have any interest/need in doing that.

that is exactly what i was looking for...its been impossible to get people out to look at this stuff because they are busy...just needed someone who knows something to to verify this guy is not jacking me around ...thanks.

Hammerhead · Nov 3, 2012

Thats something new I have just learned. My home does not have any Neutral wire like that or i'm just not understanding what this pole is. Is that the main power line to your home? I have under ground lines. rives if you could explain a bit more so I understand... Are you talking about the main power lines? If I open mine I have 2 120v lines for 200a service that conects to he panel thats all I have unles the white wire is mixed in with all the other white wires No way to seperate them

rives · Nov 3, 2012

Yes, HH, I'm talking about the main incoming power lines. There should be 3 cables where they come out of the conduit, (2) hots and (1) neutral - it may be hard to see the one for the neutral connection, but it should be a much larger conductor than all of the others attached to the neutral buss, and it is usually at the end of the buss. It's possible that the connection is hidden at the meter and is tied to the busswork there, but it's there.

http://0.tqn.com/d/electrical/1/0/3/3/-/-/Electric-Meter-Wired-300.jpg

http://www.fireengineering.com/cont...al/72288.res/_jcr_content/renditions/original

Hammerhead · Nov 4, 2012

Thanks you sir.. if its supose to be there then im sure it is..

nukklehead · Nov 5, 2012

Iron_Lion said:
I've lost a phase out in the street somewhere during a storm once. Only a few lights in my house would work but just barely, they lit up to about 25% of their normal brightness. Losing a phase is bad news, it can burn up ballasts or totally kill well pumps in no time. If that ever happens shut down as much as you can immediately to avoid costly repairs.

Is this is whats referred to as a "brown out"???

Electrical scare due to sandy

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